BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

BonnieSituation

Peregrine wrote: »

No real time issues with TFI's Real Time Ireland app. The Dublin Bus app is doing more harm than good now. If they insist on having their own app, the least they could do is keep it up to date.

Just had a gander there. Very impressive to see the intervals between each departure. Looking forward to the rest of the implementation.

Though, there's a H1 route I never noticed before popping up from Dublin Airport to Swords back to the Airport. That surely needs to be renumbered to avoid confusion.

devnull

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Though, there's a H1 route I never noticed before popping up from Dublin Airport to Swords back to the Airport. That surely needs to be renumbered to avoid confusion.

I think that is a hotel shuttle isn't it?

Hopefully they will renumber that. Although you have to say that the NTA should really have spotted that by now and addressed it already.

The other thing I hope they do in time as well as try and end the practice where you have city bus routes and BE Commuter or Expressway routes operating in the same place with the same numbers to different destinations.

Realistically the BE Expressway routes should have their numbers moved to the three digit ranges as the other intercity routes because they don't fit the general pattern that is in use across the country at the moment.

Peregrine

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Though, there's a H1 route I never noticed before popping up from Dublin Airport to Swords back to the Airport. That surely needs to be renumbered to avoid confusion.

Yeah, that's confusing. It's the one that comes up first too. That should have been taken care of by now.

BusDisconnects

The whole of Dublin Bus staff are hoping this stage fails.

The terms and conditions imposed on staff, working more at weekends and early mornings, late nights and more split shifts are not acceptable and buses are running around empty.

Services must not be expanded on the back of treating workers like crap.

ITV2

not ALL staff.

BusDisconnects

devnull wrote: »

It's almost like you're wanting the BusConnects project to fail so you can score a few points over the NTA, whom, based on your posts, it seems you clearly have a dislike for and they can do no right and the operators can do no wrong, regardless of whether actual factual evidence shows it or not.

Management are incompetent, there will be plenty of strikes before this plan is implemented and we will wrestle back control of the peoples bus network.

However it is good to see that people are pissed with Dublin Bus, if there is enough negative feedback then hopefully the plan which is an NTA power grab, will get scrapped. Wink Wink.

BusDisconnects

ITV2 wrote: »

not ALL staff.

Good lad for towing the official, public line.

Darc19

BusDisconnects wrote: »

The whole of Dublin Bus staff are hoping this stage fails.

The terms and conditions imposed on staff, working more at weekends and early mornings, late nights and more split shifts are not acceptable and buses are running around empty.

Services must not be expanded on the back of treating workers like crap.

You mean that drivers have to work for their exceptionally good salaries - highest in Europe I believe especially when the overtime and extras are added.

And you STILL will have some complaining because the hours don't revolve around their lives.

BusDisconnects

Peregrine wrote: »

No real time issues with TFI's Real Time Ireland app. The Dublin Bus app is doing more harm than good now. If they insist on having their own app, the least they could do is keep it up to date.

Ask yourself a question if you are Dublin Bus. This whole thing is a large grab of power by the NTA at the end of the day, the informed staff know this.

Would you be pulling out all the stops to make it a success and to allow the NTA to put you in a straightjacket or would you do the minimum required.

The drivers will not stand idly by and allow the proud history, identity and brand of Dublin Bus to be erased and neither will other grades of the company.

Fizzy Duck

BusDisconnects wrote: »

The whole of Dublin Bus staff are hoping this stage fails.

The terms and conditions imposed on staff, working more at weekends and early mornings, late nights and more split shifts are not acceptable and buses are running around empty.

Services must not be expanded on the back of treating workers like crap.

Not all staff. You don't speak for me.

BusDisconnects

Darc19 wrote: »

You mean that drivers have to work for their exceptionally good salaries - highest in Europe I believe especially when the overtime and extras are added.

And you STILL will have some complaining because the hours don't revolve around their lives.

Drivers earn less than the average wage in this country and are underpaid.

Very few drivers get any unscheduled overtime and extras are just that, they do not form part of our salary.

donvito99

BusDisconnects wrote: »

we will wrestle back control of the peoples bus network.

You've got to admire drivers who think that the public want a service revolving around driver preferences rather than an improved service

noelfirl

BusDisconnects wrote: »

Management are incompetent, there will be plenty of strikes before this plan is implemented and we will wrestle back control of the peoples bus network.

However it is good to see that people are pissed with Dublin Bus, if there is enough negative feedback then hopefully the plan which is an NTA power grab, will get scrapped. Wink Wink.

:rolleyes:

In Soviet Russia, peoples' network buses you!

BusDisconnects

devnull wrote: »

Transport for Ireland have staff on the ground in the city centre distributing information and timetable booklets:


Bit of chatter on social media about lack of information on Dublin Bus app as well as their website, saying that they are working to put the information up as soon as possible.

This isn't good enough, they knew the go live date for weeks.

Look at those parasites washing away all those years of history of Dublin Bus.

Citrus_8

BusDisconnects wrote: »

Drivers earn less than the average wage in this country and are underpaid.

Very few drivers get any unscheduled overtime and extras are just that, they do not form part of our salary.

Good. Drivers don't deserve bigger salaries if they aren't competitive, don't adopt to changes, don't improve, but just talk about strikes. Passengers deserve better than this. Drivers serve passengers, not the other way around.

BusDisconnects

noelfirl wrote: »

:rolleyes:

In Soviet Russia, peoples' network buses you!

I think you will find in Soviet Russia, buses are run for people, not for profit.

BusDisconnects

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Good. Drivers don't deserve bigger salaries if they aren't competitive, don't adopt to changes, don't improve, but just talk about strikes. Passengers deserve better than this. Drivers serve passengers, not the other way around.

If passengers feel they deserve better, they should make sure that the NTA properly fund bus operations in this country rather than making drivers live on poor terms and conditions to make up for the lowest funding in the world.

devnull

BusDisconnects wrote: »

If passengers feel they deserve better, they should make sure that the NTA properly fund bus operations in this country rather than making drivers live on poor terms and conditions to make up for the lowest funding in the world.

On one hand you're moaning that nobody invests in the bus network yet for pretty much all of your posts, you've been talking about how you want the biggest investment in such bus network in the history of the state to fail?

How would you invest in the bus network?

ITV2

BusDisconnects wrote: »

Good lad for towing the official, public line.

well you're statement is incorrect, did your survey all staff or just a few moaning senior (wo)men at the door?. I know in my depot it's not all doom and gloom.
So please don't generalise us ALL.

BusDisconnects

devnull wrote: »

On one hand you're moaning that nobody invests in the bus network yet for pretty much all of your posts, you've been talking about how you want the biggest investment in such bus network in the history of the state to fail?

How would you invest in the bus network?

I would introduce free public transport like in Luxembourg and scrap BusConnects, scrap the NTA, revoke the contract from go behind and remove bureaucratic targets.

dfx-

devnull wrote: »

Saying that the mistakes and shortcomings of the operators websites and apps, are fully the responsibility of an organisation that has no direct control over them and nothing to do with the people who actually design and own and operate them isn't a logical viewpoint to hold if you are looking at this objectively.

Of course they are depending on the operators involved to do things, because some of the operators involved in public transport in Ireland have fought tooth and nail in order to have their own independently controlled mediums and brand identities and retain that control and make sure that people come to the operators directly for their timetable information.

If the operators are going to play the cards that way, then they also need to take on the responsibility of providing an adequate level of information to their customers. If they are not doing that, then they should step aside and allow the NTA to build a single portal that is managed directly by the NTA and not frustrate the process and then if it all goes wrong still, then surely the NTA will get the blame that they deserve as everything will be under their control.

How is that stopping Anne Graham et al going on tv/radio etc. to promote it and organising a digital advertising campaign beyond updating a website. Are they not in charge?

devnull wrote: »

I'm not quite sure based on the above, how you can conclude that the NTA are doing a poor job with information and the operators are doing a fine job, because the evidence suggests otherwise.

It's almost like you're wanting the BusConnects project to fail so you can score a few points over the NTA, whom, based on your posts, it seems you clearly have a dislike for and they can do no right and the operators can do no wrong, regardless of whether actual factual evidence shows it or not.

The simple fact is that right now, the NTA websites and apps that are under the direct control of the NTA are in a far better state information wise than those which the operators continue to independently operate under their precious brands. If you can't see that then I'm not sure what more I can say in response to your post, the evidence I've listed above, speaks for itself.

Saying one website is better the other is meaningless, it's about whether the full information campaign has been sufficient.

The only people responsible for the overall picture is the NTA/TFI. It is their network, their decision to bring it in and they want to change the operator on a whim so the pressure is on them now to make it a success. At some point the buck has to stop with them. So they should the ones in the spotlight.

Actually, I don't want BusConnects to fail because we're all ploughing on with it regardless, so we've long passed that step. What it needs to be successful is a sea change in operation by the NTA to how they've implemented anything to date, not "contact the operator".

Do you think the NTA's campaign is sufficient on its own? They've updated a website and an app - is that enough? Have they fostered a relationship with the operators to synchronise the updates? Or is everyone doing their own thing?

The advertising should be the easiest part to organise compared to day-to-day implementation and troubleshooting which is now to come, they've had months. After all, this is just a renumbering phase - a starting phase - with no infrastructure stuff to complicate it.

Peregrine wrote: »

Yeah, that's confusing. It's the one that comes up first too. That should have been taken care of by now.

Indeed.

noelfirl

To be honest, maybe it's possible to look at the information disconnect in a different way - if DB and GAI don't get their information up to scratch on this spine and/or future spines, inadvertantly people may just migrate to getting it from TFI and stop relying on the operator(s). Which in the long term would be a better thing overall.

devnull

dfx- wrote: »

How is that stopping Anne Graham et al going on tv/radio etc. to promote it and organising a digital advertising campaign beyond updating a website. Are they not in charge?

There has been advertising, there has been NTA advertising on bus shelters, bus stops, on the radio, on buses and online. There are a large number of staff out this morning from TFI who are helping passengers. Also NTA leaflets have been dropped to properties in the areas that the changes effect.

The fact is that the NTA have updated their website and provided literature and apps that reflect todays changes and the operators have not. Whatever kind of whataboutery you resort to in order to distract from that, it remains the case.

Saying one website is better the other is meaningless, it's about whether the full information campaign has been sufficient.

Yet in your completely blinkered viewpoint, you are happy to give a free pass to the parties you are supportive of for not doing the basics of providing adequate information, but you then come on to round on the parties who have done the basics right because they haven't done enough.

It's almost like you are hoping that there will be problems and then you can pin anything on the NTA as a stick to beat them with regardless of who is at fault and who made the mistakes. I really don't get this whole blame game business and taking sides and never have done. My views are based on wanting public transport to be the best it can be.

The only people responsible for the overall picture is the NTA/TFI. It is their network, their decision to bring it in and they want to change the operator on a whim so the pressure is on them now to make it a success. At some point the buck has to stop with them. So they should the ones in the spotlight.

For any major project like this to be a success it is not about one party. It is about everyone working together and doing their bit to make it a success. This is the very basic of any major project in any industry. The simple fact is that neither Go-Ahead or Dublin Bus have provided the levels of information that patrons going to their website should expect and that is on them.

What it needs to be successful is a sea change in operation by the NTA to how they've implemented anything to date, not "contact the operator".

So you are saying that someone going to the timetables section of DublinBus.ie or the Dublin Bus App (which Dublin Bus have actively promoted that their customers should use rather than the TFI App) should turn around and blame the NTA, despite the fact the operators exact people who have been keen to keep their own brands firmly in the limelight and have contributed to a situation where people still go to the operator rather than going to the NTA? Bizarre logic.

I'm sure you have seen certain FF TDs and discussions in the Dail about the value of the brand of Dublin Bus and also from the chairman who has made similar comments about Dublin Bus keeping it's unique identity. This kind of attitude is not helpful to achieve the things which you outline.

Operators have actively encouraged people to go to their website rather than the NTA for years so if they do that, then they need to ensure information is adequately provided to people who go to visit that or they should step the website aside in favour of a central TFI website. They cannot have their cake and eat it like the British thought they could with Brexit.

Do you think the NTA's campaign is sufficient on its own? They've updated a website and an app - is that enough?

The advertising should be the easiest part to organise compared to day-to-day implementation and troubleshooting which is now to come, they've had months.

I think that putting the timetables on a section marked timetables on a website that you own and operate and expecting the bus company to ensure that their own buses appear on their own app is not something we should be talking about on a forum at 5.30pm on launch day as these things are the ABCs of how route changes should be managed and the easiest parts to manage. But sadly it seems we are discussing such basic issues.

How is it that the NTA could mange to get their own website and real time app updated from the start of business today, but the operator who actually runs the buses that operate said timetable and have the real time equipment on, cannot do the same thing?

devnull

noelfirl wrote: »

To be honest, maybe it's possible to look at the information disconnect in a different way - if DB and GAI don't get their information up to scratch on this spine and/or future spines, inadvertantly people may just migrate to getting it from TFI and stop relying on the operator(s). Which in the long term would be a better thing overall.

Realistically there shouldn't be any operator websites to exist for anything other than a corporate manner. I'm fine with them retaining their website for private hires, commercial routes and tours etc, but realistically everything that forms part of the PSO network should be on TFI which should be a one stop shop like the TFL website is for London.

All that we continue to see is that the practice of each operator that has their own website leads to situations like we see today. Inconsistent information with varying levels of quality and everyone doing things in their own way which is not good for the average public transport user who just wants to get a bus. The interests of any operator must always come second to those of the public transport user.

The NTA have a brochure and full timetables up and an app that has included routes since they started today, but many users won't see this, because for years now, the operator of the services has encouraged users to come to it directly for information rather than going to TFI. The fact that DB continue to promote their own app over one which covers the whole Dublin City bus network tells you all you need to know about this.

BusDisconnects

devnull wrote: »

Realistically there shouldn't be any operator websites to exist for anything other than a corporate manner. I'm fine with them retaining their website for private hires, commercial routes and tours etc, but realistically everything that forms part of the PSO network should be on TFI which should be a one stop shop like the TFL website is for London.

All that we continue to see is that the practice of each operator that has their own website leads to situations like we see today. Inconsistent information with varying levels of quality and everyone doing things in their own way which is not good for the average public transport user who just wants to get a bus. The interests of any operator must always come second to those of the public transport user.

The NTA have a brochure and full timetables up and an app that has included routes since they started today, but many users won't see this, because for years now, the operator of the services has encouraged users to come to it directly for information rather than going to TFI. The fact that DB continue to promote their own app over one which covers the whole Dublin City bus network tells you all you need to know about this.

Would this be the same NTA who refused to allow Dublin Bus to paint a bus in Gay Pride livery this year because they are trying to score cheap points against them.

BusDisconnects

ITV2 wrote: »

well you're statement is incorrect, did your survey all staff or just a few moaning senior (wo)men at the door?. I know in my depot it's not all doom and gloom.
So please don't generalise us ALL.

Perhaps you haven't seen the bills that you will be on in the future. THen you may change your mind.

BusDisconnects

devnull wrote: »

There has been advertising, there has been NTA advertising on bus shelters, bus stops, on the radio, on buses and online. There are a large number of staff out this morning from TFI who are helping passengers. Also NTA leaflets have been dropped to properties in the areas that the changes effect.

The fact is that the NTA have updated their website and provided literature and apps that reflect todays changes and the operators have not. Whatever kind of whataboutery you resort to in order to distract from that, it remains the case.



Yet in your completely blinkered viewpoint, you are happy to give a free pass to the parties you are supportive of for not doing the basics of providing adequate information, but you then come on to round on the parties who have done the basics right because they haven't done enough.

It's almost like you are hoping that there will be problems and then you can pin anything on the NTA as a stick to beat them with regardless of who is at fault and who made the mistakes. I really don't get this whole blame game business and taking sides and never have done. My views are based on wanting public transport to be the best it can be.



For any major project like this to be a success it is not about one party. It is about everyone working together and doing their bit to make it a success. This is the very basic of any major project in any industry. The simple fact is that neither Go-Ahead or Dublin Bus have provided the levels of information that patrons going to their website should expect and that is on them.



So you are saying that someone going to the timetables section of DublinBus.ie or the Dublin Bus App (which Dublin Bus have actively promoted that their customers should use rather than the TFI App) should turn around and blame the NTA, despite the fact the operators exact people who have been keen to keep their own brands firmly in the limelight and have contributed to a situation where people still go to the operator rather than going to the NTA? Bizarre logic.

I'm sure you have seen certain FF TDs and discussions in the Dail about the value of the brand of Dublin Bus and also from the chairman who has made similar comments about Dublin Bus keeping it's unique identity. This kind of attitude is not helpful to achieve the things which you outline.

Operators have actively encouraged people to go to their website rather than the NTA for years so if they do that, then they need to ensure information is adequately provided to people who go to visit that or they should step the website aside in favour of a central TFI website. They cannot have their cake and eat it like the British thought they could with Brexit.



I think that putting the timetables on a section marked timetables on a website that you own and operate and expecting the bus company to ensure that their own buses appear on their own app is not something we should be talking about on a forum at 5.30pm on launch day as these things are the ABCs of how route changes should be managed and the easiest parts to manage. But sadly it seems we are discussing such basic issues.

How is it that the NTA could mange to get their own website and real time app updated from the start of business today, but the operator who actually runs the buses that operate said timetable and have the real time equipment on, cannot do the same thing?

I hope that the NTA are paying you well.

BusDisconnects

noelfirl wrote: »

To be honest, maybe it's possible to look at the information disconnect in a different way - if DB and GAI don't get their information up to scratch on this spine and/or future spines, inadvertantly people may just migrate to getting it from TFI and stop relying on the operator(s). Which in the long term would be a better thing overall.

And there the mask slips, the likes of yourself and Devnull and all the other cheerleaders for this have exposed this whole thing for what ti is.

An exercise to erase the identity of Dublin Bus and force privatisation on the whole service.

The race to the bottom.

devnull

Seems that Dublin Bus have now got the H spine routes showing on their app, still nothing on timetables page though.

Friend of mine has just got back from the City Centre after taking bus from Rahney and has stated that there were people handing out leaflets both on buses, at the terminus in the city centre and Raheny itself.

TFI have just posted a tweet of the information campaign:
https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1409199654911217672

BusDisconnects

devnull wrote: »

Seems that Dublin Bus have now got the H spine routes showing on their app, still nothing on timetables page though.

Must have killed you to admit that they did something right.

Friend of mine has just got back from the City Centre after taking bus from Rahney and has stated that there were people handing out leaflets both on buses, at the terminus in the city centre and Raheny itself.

Is your friend like one of Enda Kenny's friends? Did he exist? And just before the NTA posted the same thing.