BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Citrus_8 · 24-06-2021 9:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So are the H routes better or worse for the people of Howth, Malahide etc.

Better because of a better timetable: more departures and sooner first & later last busses. Also, better focus to an embarrassing bus stop infrastructure - in the rainy country have just a pole with sign was very american attitude towards the passengers. Now at least more popular bus stops will have shelters. I would personally remove some stops as in other Europeans countries a distance between stops is bigger. Dublin for some reasons makes passengers to be lazy and wastes the time for buses on the routes. Also, there's a positive thinking towards changing a ticketing system, hopefully, in the near future.

In other words, Ireland has now got the most of attention to the public transport in the country's history. That's around 15 years later than in other European countries - but that's not surprising - Irish nation has always been more resilient to changes and slower in thinking about the future than the others.

Thrashssacre · 24-06-2021 9:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So are the H routes better or worse for the people of Howth, Malahide etc.

Better, few more departures on the routes and when infrastructure improvements are made on the corridor journey times will then also improve. Infrastructure improvements aren't due until later though.

punisher5112 · 24-06-2021 9:28pm

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Better because of a better timetable: more departures and sooner first & later last busses. Also, better focus to an embarrassing bus stop infrastructure - in the rainy country have just a pole with sign was very american attitude towards the passengers. Now at least more popular bus stops will have shelters. I would personally remove some stops as in other Europeans countries a distance between stops is bigger. Dublin for some reasons makes passengers to be lazy and wastes the time for buses on the routes. Also, there's a positive thinking toward changing a ticketing system, hopefully, in the near future.

In other words, Ireland has now got the most of attention to the public transport in the countries history. That's around 15 years later than in other European countries - but that's not surprising - Irish nation has always been more resilient to changes and slower in thinking about the future than the others.

Dress appropriately for the weather... Can't be going fitting over 5k bus shelters, that be insane

Citrus_8 · 24-06-2021 9:33pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Dress appropriately for the weather... Can't be going fitting over 5k bus shelters, that be insane

Your attitude and reaction proves my above thinking about the Irish nation - instead of making changes and thinking about the modernisation, better to find lame excuses and pretend it's normal. That's the attitude of lazy people who better find time making excuses rather than investing time for future planning and finding investors. Some European countries have a land around the bus stops for the advertising companies who build the shelters and do maintenance off their own expenses for exchange of the right to advertise in the shelters. Both parties win.

But sure, better to be a shortsighted stubborn with a bag of excuses, right?

Tell that to the others (Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany etc. Even most post-soviet countries have shelters). Simply government find money, time, thinking ahead, not backwards. Remove some bus stops every 150 metres (Rathmines, for instance), and here you go - less shelters needed.

Just need to be smart and show initiative, not lazy and stubborn.

24-06-2021 9:53pm

There’s no way that all bus stops are sheltered every where else. Maybe we do need more. But hardly all.

Talking about the H route, there’s far too many stops in the harbour road.

L1011 · 24-06-2021 10:34pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Dress appropriately for the weather... Can't be going fitting over 5k bus shelters, that be insane

Well, if network redesign is done properly there should be a significant reduction in stops. And all of those should absolutely have a shelter.

punisher5112 · 24-06-2021 11:13pm

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Your attitude and reaction proves my above thinking about the Irish nation - instead of making changes and thinking about the modernisation, better to find lame excuses and pretend it's normal. That's the attitude of lazy people who better find time making excuses rather than investing time for future planning and finding investors. Some European countries have a land around the bus stops for the advertising companies who build the shelters and do maintenance off their own expenses for exchange of the right to advertise in the shelters. Both parties win.

But sure, better to be a shortsighted stubborn with a bag of excuses, right?

Tell that to the others (Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany etc. Even most post-soviet countries have shelters). Simply government find money, time, thinking ahead, not backwards. Remove some bus stops every 150 metres (Rathmines, for instance), and here you go - less shelters needed.

Just need to be smart and show initiative, not lazy and stubborn.

Think you have mistaken what I said, I'm all for shelters but seriously every stop no....

Main, busy stops yes of course.

There are many that I pass, not a soul in them.

Citrus_8 · 25-06-2021 12:50am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s no way that all bus stops are sheltered every where else. Maybe we do need more. But hardly all.

Talking about the H route, there’s far too many stops in the harbour road.

Agree, and I never mentioned all, I said, most popular stops. There really are too many stops, nearly every second could be removed.

Citrus_8 · 25-06-2021 12:51am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Think you have mistaken what I said, I'm all for shelters but seriously every stop no....

Main, busy stops yes of course.

There are many that I pass, not a soul in them.

This is what I meant - popular (=most used) stops. I never mentioned all stops and don't know how you've read that

Barna77 · 25-06-2021 1:22am

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Better because of a better timetable: more departures and sooner first & later last busses. Also, better focus to an embarrassing bus stop infrastructure - in the rainy country have just a pole with sign was very american attitude towards the passengers. Now at least more popular bus stops will have shelters. I would personally remove some stops as in other Europeans countries a distance between stops is bigger. Dublin for some reasons makes passengers to be lazy and wastes the time for buses on the routes. Also, there's a positive thinking towards changing a ticketing system, hopefully, in the near future.

I'm confused.
On the Howth and Malahide routes, the buses will be more frequent but departing every 30 minutes ??

From city centre to Raheny village (and vice versa), the three timetables combined seem to work out fine, but from Raheny to Howth/Malahide...

AngryLips · 25-06-2021 8:15am

Barna77 wrote: »

I'm confused.
On the Howth and Malahide routes, the buses will be more frequent but departing every 30 minutes ??

From city centre to Raheny village (and vice versa), the three timetables combined seem to work out fine, but from Raheny to Howth/Malahide...

The combined routes on h spine will mean a bus every ten minutes from town to Raheny and a bus every 15 minutes out past Raheny

25-06-2021 10:44am

15 minutes is great to be honest. Average wait of 7.5 minutes. I’d just turn up without checking timetables.

loyatemu · 25-06-2021 11:37am

L1011 wrote: »

Well, if network redesign is done properly there should be a significant reduction in stops. And all of those should absolutely have a shelter.

any time they try to remove a stop, there's war and local politicians wade in. I doubt there will be any significant reduction.

downtheroad · 25-06-2021 11:43am

loyatemu wrote: »

any time they try to remove a stop, there's war and local politicians wade in. I doubt there will be any significant reduction.

We must keep this stop for Betty aged 85 as its close to her home. No consideration to how Betty was able to get around town at the other end of the line.

You shouldn't be able to see the next bus stop when you're waiting at one. Remove a good 25% at least and get the buses moving.

Citrus_8 · 25-06-2021 12:42pm

downtheroad wrote: »

We must keep this stop for Betty aged 85 as its close to her home. No consideration to how Betty was able to get around town at the other end of the line.

You shouldn't be able to see the next bus stop when you're waiting at one. Remove a good 25% at least and get the buses moving.

Absolutely! I 100% agree and it's very well said - if you can see another bus stop from the one you're in, it could be considered for removing.

d51984 · 26-06-2021 1:24pm

It just dawned on me that I will be one of the last drivers (possibly the last) to drive a 29A tonight

.

Stephen Gawking · 26-06-2021 3:07pm

I've been called into work tomorrow morning, I'll be on the 130. This talk of strike action has me concerned, should i make alternative travel arrangements? TIA

rx8 · 26-06-2021 4:06pm

Stephen Gawking wrote: »

I've been called into work tomorrow morning, I'll be on the 130. This talk of strike action has me concerned, should i make alternative travel arrangements? TIA

There's been NO talk of strike action. A smooth transition is going to happen tomorrow. No need to be worried at all.

Stephen Gawking · 26-06-2021 4:44pm

rx8 wrote: »

There's been NO talk of strike action. A smooth transition is going to happen tomorrow. No need to be worried at all.

Thank you.

d51984 · 26-06-2021 11:17pm

Why is the 6 numbered 6? Make more sense numbering it H5?

dublinman1990 · 26-06-2021 11:51pm

How many phases are involved in this network rollout of BusConnects? Is it still at 11 phases or not because someone on the Dublin Commuter Coalition twitter account was saying that this part of the project, along with a linked an article from the Irish Sun, was said to finish it in mid-2023. Was this person correct to give it?

I know that this question has been discussed at length on this thread before with the FOI request being given to LXFlyer. I wonder if there is any updated table from the NTA showing which routes are going to be scrapped in each phase & which routes will replace them with their new implementation start date.

Also tonight is the last night of the 29a, 31/a/b & 32 in operation before Spine H is launched in the morning.

Have these routes had any meaningful passenger numbers on the buses before they go off for good tonight?

AngryLips · 27-06-2021 6:49am

d51984 wrote: »

Why is the 6 numbered 6? Make more sense numbering it H5?

I imagine it might be because relative to the other H routes, the 6 is quite an indirect service (57 minutes to Howth versus 47 minutes on the H3) and the service frequency is only every 60 minutes.

devnull · 27-06-2021 11:02am

The information quality on the operator websites this morning continues to fall short of the required standards.

For some reason Dublin Bus have decided to remove the links to the PDF booklet that has been being posted through the doors from TFI and been in use for the last couple of weeks and they had on their own website and replaced it with a text only word document which lacks some of the information and any kind of non text content.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/H%20Spine%20Booklet%2024.60.21.docx

In addition, there remains no timetables for the new routes up on the timetable section of the Dublin Bus website and the existing timetables remain up, with a small note at the top saying that they no longer apply from the 27th.

Meanwhile Go-Ahead haven't bothered to post anything whatsoever about the changes to their 102 route, so as much as Dublin Bus have their failing, they are even worse, which again is simply unacceptable.

If this is how relatively simple changes to routes happens in this phase, then you don't hold out much hope for what is happening in later phases with far more complex changes due to happen.

devnull · 27-06-2021 12:15pm

Transport for Ireland have staff on the ground in the city centre distributing information and timetable booklets:
https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1409104608727818241

Bit of chatter on social media about lack of information on Dublin Bus app as well as their website, saying that they are working to put the information up as soon as possible.

This isn't good enough, they knew the go live date for weeks.

dfx- · 27-06-2021 1:03pm

This is a NTA/TFI thing and the success will be based on their level of attention, accountability and responsibility for it. Focusing on the operator doing it is misplaced.

Peregrine · 27-06-2021 1:17pm

No real time issues with TFI's Real Time Ireland app. The Dublin Bus app is doing more harm than good now. If they insist on having their own app, the least they could do is keep it up to date.

devnull · 27-06-2021 1:24pm

dfx- wrote: »

This is a NTA/TFI thing and the success will be based on their level of attention, accountability and responsibility for it. Focusing on the operator doing it is misplaced.

The NTA have a detailed page up with a brochure that has been hand delivered to residents in the effect areas, they have a journey planner and real time app that is currently displaying the new routes and the timetables section of their website. They also have staff on the streets this morning who are assisting with customers.

Dublin Bus meanwhile have the old timetables up, don't have the new ones up in their timetable list at all, have an app which the routes don't appear on, have replaced the informative brochure provided by the NTA with a far more basic word document and have three different links on their homepage for the info with varying levels of information.

Go-Ahead meanwhile, simply haven't bothered to post anything on their website or social media at all despite the fact that one of their routes has seen a routing change today, something that customers should really be told about.

I do not think the implementation of these changes and the information provided by the NTA is perfect by any means, but at present it is streets ahead of what has been provided by the operators who seemingly were not fully prepared for today, despite the fact the date was known a few weeks ago.

Blaming the NTA for the shortcomings of the Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead websites and the shortcomings of the Dublin Bus App, which are directly controlled by the respective operators rather than the NTA, just simply doesn't stand up to objective analysis.

Citrus_8 · 27-06-2021 2:03pm

d51984 wrote: »

Why is the 6 numbered 6? Make more sense numbering it H5?

Spine routes are higher frequency and their schedule intervals are working together with other same spine routes' schedules to keep the averaged intervals. While numbers spines are independent routes from main spines - they are less direct, not us frequent and their schedules aren't linked to other schedules. All this concept is explained in the BusConnects website if you'd like to know more.

dfx- · 27-06-2021 3:00pm

devnull wrote: »

The NTA have a detailed page up with a brochure that has been hand delivered to residents in the effect areas, they have a journey planner and real time app that is currently displaying the new routes and the timetables section of their website. They also have staff on the streets this morning who are assisting with customers.

Dublin Bus meanwhile have the old timetables up, don't have the new ones up in their timetable list at all, have an app which the routes don't appear on, have replaced the informative brochure provided by the NTA with a far more basic word document and have three different links on their homepage for the info with varying levels of information.

Go-Ahead meanwhile, simply haven't bothered to post anything on their website or social media at all despite the fact that one of their routes has seen a routing change today, something that customers should really be told about.

I do not think the implementation of these changes and the information provided by the NTA is perfect by any means, but at present it is streets ahead of what has been provided by the operators who seemingly were not fully prepared for today, despite the fact the date was known a few weeks ago.

Blaming the NTA for the shortcomings of the Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead websites and the shortcomings of the Dublin Bus App, which are directly controlled by the respective operators rather than the NTA, just simply doesn't stand up to objective analysis.

the shortcomings of the operators are nothing to do with it. It's an NTA/TFI thing, they should be doing all the legwork if they want their idea and their network out there. Take ownership of it...

If they are already depending on or demanding the operator to do it again, then it is doomed.

Have they had staff on the streets and on the buses in the past few weeks/months? Digital advertising, TV, ad boards, radio, newspapers.

devnull · 27-06-2021 3:52pm

dfx- wrote: »

the shortcomings of the operators are nothing to do with it. It's an NTA/TFI thing, they should be doing all the legwork if they want their idea and their network out there. Take ownership of it...

If they are already depending on or demanding the operator to do it again, then it is doomed.

Saying that the mistakes and shortcomings of the operators websites and apps, are fully the responsibility of an organisation that has no direct control over them and nothing to do with the people who actually design and own and operate them isn't a logical viewpoint to hold if you are looking at this objectively.

Of course they are depending on the operators involved to do things, because some of the operators involved in public transport in Ireland have fought tooth and nail in order to have their own independently controlled mediums and brand identities and retain that control and make sure that people come to the operators directly for their timetable information.

If the operators are going to play the cards that way, then they also need to take on the responsibility of providing an adequate level of information to their customers. If they are not doing that, then they should step aside and allow the NTA to build a single portal that is managed directly by the NTA and not frustrate the process and then if it all goes wrong still, then surely the NTA will get the blame that they deserve as everything will be under their control.

So to recap, on directly controlled NTA matters, which the operators have no direct control over, we have

New timetables listed in the timetables section
Old timetables removed from the timetables section.
Full colour brochure delivered to doors and on their website
An informative page on their website with all information
Working and fully updated real time and journey planner apps.
Staff on the ground this morning

Meanwhile, on the operator controlled matters, which the NTA have no direct control over, we have

Old timetables continuing to be in place on websites.
New timetables not listed anywhere on timetable sections
No brochure at all (Go-Ahead) or a more basic word doc brochure on DB
Real time app that doesn't contain the new routes.

I'm not quite sure based on the above, how you can conclude that the NTA are doing a poor job with information and the operators are doing a fine job, because the evidence suggests otherwise.

It's almost like you're wanting the BusConnects project to fail so you can score a few points over the NTA, whom, based on your posts, it seems you clearly have a dislike for and they can do no right and the operators can do no wrong, regardless of whether actual factual evidence shows it or not.

The simple fact is that right now, the NTA websites and apps that are under the direct control of the NTA are in a far better state information wise than those which the operators continue to independently operate under their precious brands. If you can't see that then I'm not sure what more I can say in response to your post, the evidence I've listed above, speaks for itself.

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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