BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Bray Head

CatInABox wrote: »

ILBondo wrote: »

https://dublininquirer.com/2018/09/18/david-so-what-s-the-story-with-busconnects

Sense finally spoken by a media outlet.

Dublin Inquirer have run a good few positive articles on BusConnects now, very impressive on how balanced they are. A few other outlets should take note of how to accurately portray the various pros and cons of an idea

It's a really nice publication. 


Their pieces are well thought out, they speak to experts and try to give a balanced view.

hmmm

The formal opposition by FF is significant - FF TDs will use this opposition to generate local media headlines for the next few weeks and put government TDs under severe pressure. FG TDs aren't likely to support something they can barely explain to their constituents, and the combination of FF, SF and shouty lefty types in opposition is more than enough to cause them to sit on the fence rather than offer support.

Stephen15

hmmm wrote: »

The formal opposition by FF is significant - FF TDs will use this opposition to generate local media headlines for the next few weeks and put government TDs under severe pressure. FG TDs aren't likely to support something they can barely explain to their constituents, and the combination of FF, SF and shouty lefty types in opposition is more than enough to cause them to sit on the fence rather than offer support.

How big an issue is bus connects to most people. I doubt most people really care. Do most people even know what Bus Connects is let alone what the plans for it are.

Sam Russell

Stephen15 wrote: »

How big an issue is bus connects to most people. I doubt most people really care. Do most people even know what Bus Connects is let alone what the plans for it are.

It is hardly a national issue, and would only be used to get councillors and TD into the newspapers. The 90 minute ticket will benefit most users, and the free transfers will make journeys quicker and more consistant.

Surely, most will benefit, with few losers.

CatInABox

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is hardly a national issue, and would only be used to get councillors and TD into the newspapers. The 90 minute ticket will benefit most users, and the free transfers will make journeys quicker and more consistant.

Surely, most will benefit, with few losers.

You and I, along with most here, know all that, but there's a growing sense amongst people that BusConnects is about "removing bus routes".

It's disquieting for me. How do you get people interested in something that they simply don't want to be interested in, but will have a large effect on them?

devnull

Sam Russell wrote: »

Stephen15 wrote: »

How big an issue is bus connects to most people. I doubt most people really care. Do most people even know what Bus Connects is let alone what the plans for it are.

It is hardly a national issue, and would only be used to get councillors and TD into the newspapers. The 90 minute ticket will benefit most users, and the free transfers will make journeys quicker and more consistant.

Surely, most will benefit, with few losers.

You can be sure that they won't be mentioning such ticket at any of their community meetings because the truth about it won't serve their agenda. I've been to one and nothing at all was said. Indeed it was said that the transfer to other modes would vastly increase the fares payable by the poor.

I've seen quotes elsewhere suggesting that Fianna Fail suggested that we should scrap BusConnects (which is a €2bn investment in bus transport our city needs quite frankly.). Did they really say that? If so that's typical FF populism from the last time they were in government. Makes a mockery of those from that party who said to me last election they are not a populist party anymore.

salmocab

I’ve long thought this will fall on politicians pushing agendas, the reality is most people think the bus works fine and it’s just that traffic slows it down, they don’t see the big picture and only care about their own local route. This hasn’t been explained properly to the masses and the likes of Lahart will gladly sink this to gain some votes. He’s my local TD and he’s a useless mouth piece.

marno21

CatInABox wrote: »

You and I, along with most here, know all that, but there's a growing sense amongst people that BusConnects is about "removing bus routes".

It's disquieting for me. How do you get people interested in something that they simply don't want to be interested in, but will have a large effect on them?

Did you not hear they are going privatising Dublin Bus? That they are going selling Dublin Bus to a foreign company so that the foreign company can cut the drivers wages and increase profits. Then they are going to drive up fares for everyone so that they can make even more profit. I am outraged by it. I look forward to seeing what my local Fianna Fail TD can do to stop this utter madness. You only have to look at how bad privatisation is for the Irish market when you see how bad Aer Lingus and Irish Sugar became when privatised.

marno21

Attached is today's BusConnects debate from the Dail: https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-09-19a.272

Most of this is stuff that the TD's in question should submit as part of the public consultation rather than ranting about them in the Dail.

For reference, the word "privatisation" was used 14 times during this debate, "privatised" once, "privatisers" once and the word "private" in relation to operators three times.

MJohnston

I have a small BusConnects related web project nearly ready to go and I'm looking for some volunteers to test and help out - if you're interested and able to manually compute 1 or 2 BusConnects journeys occasionally, send me a PM with your email address.

dfx-

CatInABox wrote: »

You and I, along with most here, know all that, but there's a growing sense amongst people that BusConnects is about "removing bus routes".

It's disquieting for me. How do you get people interested in something that they simply don't want to be interested in, but will have a large effect on them?

Removing, redesigning, restructuring, re-whatever you want. It's all the same thing when your route is moved or removed or 'newly connected'. (Mr Walker appears to prefer 'redesigning' as an aside).

devnull

FF motion on BusConnects appears to have passed.

MJohnston

Grim stuff. I'm sure none who voted Tá have any workable alternatives other than "leave it as it is".

AlekSmart

MJohnston wrote: »

Grim stuff. I'm sure none who voted Tá have any workable alternatives other than "leave it as it is".

The only real effect of this vote AFAIAA,is the extension of the Consultation Phase to the end of September.

A knock on from that,may be a delay in the Infrastructural Element Consultation Phase,which looks like it will be a "Blood on the Tracks" phase,as it will directly pit the rights of non Public Transport users against those who DO use the systems.

If the process does ever manage to get to the Infrastructural Consultation phase,we may well see a display of the same PbP ish Politicians having to get Jesuitical and lend their full support to the Rights of Property Owners (and,God forbid...LANDLORDS ! :eek: ) to oppose the Busconnects programme also.....

There is every likelyhood of this process going down the "Irish Solution to an Irish Problem" road,which will see nothing whatsoever achieved after the spending of a Vast amount of public monies........:(

sharper

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is every likelyhood of this process going down the "Irish Solution to an Irish Problem" road,which will see nothing whatsoever achieved after the spending of a Vast amount of public monies........:(

You're being far too optimistic here, remember your LUAS cross city and even 10 minute DART. They'll create a plan that disrupts everything and makes everything worse due to a series of compromises, under resourcing and everyone taking their cut along the way before anything gets to a public transport user.

AlanG

Stephen15 wrote: »

How big an issue is bus connects to most people. I doubt most people really care. Do most people even know what Bus Connects is let alone what the plans for it are.

The meetings I went to were packed - you couldn't get into the FF one in Blanchardstown 5 mins before it was due to start.

Sierra Oscar

If the plan is struggling to get political approval at this stage, during an extensive consultation process, then it doesn't bode well for down the line when talk of CPO's and so on surface ...

It's not looking great.

Hurrache

The problem is that locals aren't looking at the broader picture of the network change, and it's understandable in a way. A big obstacle out in Dublin West, and a major stumbling block, is the designation of Blanchardstown Centre as the hub, which is madness. Buses have been routed to avoid that area in order to improve the service, now they're purposely routed to it. When you have issues like that, people aren't going to look past it, and I understand it's coming up at all the meetings out that way.

jd

AlekSmart wrote: »

The only real effect of this vote AFAIAA,is the extension of the Consultation Phase to the end of September.

It was to September 28th anyway, I thought?

marno21

Noel Rock on Today FM giving out about people in estates not having buses outside their door

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1042799144362885122

Walker fighting the losing battle I feel.

Daith

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Walker fighting the losing battle I feel.

Yep, not sure he's witnessed the "he fixed the roads" level of politicians here. Maybe at a later stage of development.

devnull

AlanG wrote: »

The meetings I went to were packed - you couldn't get into the FF one in Blanchardstown 5 mins before it was due to start.

All politics are local at the end of the day though in Ireland, whether you like that fact or not unfortunately.

The problem is a lot of these meetings that have been arranged by local reps are only being done to buy votes ahead of the local elections. To tell the electorate that there is a danger and we'll save you from it, makes them look like some kind of hero, so best they whip up fear and win a few votes, than give a balanced view.

The plan is not perfect and it needs tweaking, no doubt about that, but the fact that this plan will save a lot of multi-mode passengers a lot of money versus what they are paying now is never mentioned at these community meetings, because that is a good thing, and the only way local reps can win votes is if they convince people it's a bad thing and a vote for them will stop it.

Hurrache

devnull wrote: »

The problem is a lot of these meetings that have been arranged by local reps are only being done to buy votes ahead of the local elections.

This is disingenuous to genuine concerns, like the one in Dublin West I mentioned. It's not FF riling up the blood, it's residents of those areas raising these issues.

jd

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1042799144362885122

Walker fighting the losing battle I feel.

Tweet was deleted. What was the gist of what he said?

LeinsterDub

jd wrote: »

Tweet was deleted. What was the gist of what he said?

Blow by blow taking apart of FF letter to the Dáil

Brian CivilEng

I don't get the opposition, it's not like the city centre is one tiny place that once you get off the bus you are magically at your destination. Currently if I want to get the bus to town I'm dropped in Abbey St. If I want to go somewhere else then I have to walk, if I want to go southside I have to walk almost a kilometre or get on a luas to get on another bus in college green or Nassau. What use is cutting out the walk at the beginning of the journey if it still exists at the end.

devnull

Hurrache wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

The problem is a lot of these meetings that have been arranged by local reps are only being done to buy votes ahead of the local elections.

This is disingenuous to genuine concerns, like the one in Dublin West I mentioned. It's not FF riling up the blood, it's residents of those areas raising these issues.

Which meeting was this you are talking about?

The meetings I talked about people appeared to have beliefs and views which were untrue and the result of misinformation from the likes that have been previously discussed to death on this thread.

Those who were arranging these meetings seemed to either not understand the plan they were objecting to or they knew things were wrong but let them go unchallenged what reason do you think this is? Ignorance or something else?

In Dublin West dog instance there is this big claim about all buses from Tyrrelstowm going to Blanch and no bus to city centre which is incorrect as the 35 does. Do you think the politicans who go around holding placards stating differently simply have no clue about what they are objecting to or they are choosing to tell falsehoods?

Why do politicans also not want to talk about the new fare which will save a lot of public transport users a lot of money?why instead do the likes of PBP tell people that more modes means fare increases? Are they ignorant of what the plan is they hate so much or is there another reason?

schemingbohemia

Cormac Devlin FF Councillor in Dun Laoghaire and General election candidate had a prepared submission for Bus Connects on his website that basically just complained about every single change in services in the area. It does "allow" you to delete as necessary. Unfortunately I couldn't get to his meetings to challenge his points. It's just fear-mongering and not wishing to leave the ground open to the PBP/SF crowd.

To The National Transport Authority

I wish to make a submission about your proposal to redesign the Dublin Bus Network:

1. I object to the removal of a direct service from parts of Cherrywood, Loughlinstown, Ballybrack, Sallynoggin and Glenageary to the City Centre that would result from the Number 7 route terminating in Dun Laoghaire Town.

2. I object to the abolition of the 7A, this route provides a vital link for residents in Loughlinstown Park, Ballybrack and Sallynoggin with the City Centre.

3. I object to the abolition of the 7D which provides a vital link between Dalkey and many schools on the N11 such as Colaiste Eoin and Colaiste Iosagain.
4. I object to the abolition of the Number 4 route, this route is used by many people in the Stradbrook and Monkstown area's as their direct connection with the City Centre.

5. I object to the re-routing of the 45A, your proposal would leave many elderly residents in Rochestown House, Sallynoggin Park and Pearse Gardens without any immediate bus service.

6. I object to the re-numbering of routes, this has added unnecessary complexity to these proposals. -
7. I am very disappointed about the lack of meaningful consultation about these proposals, one meeting in Bloomfields Shopping Centre is completely insufficient given the scale and impact of the proposed changes.

I trust you will acknowledge my objection in due course,

Yours faithfully,
Insert Your Name Here...

TheChrisD

Hurrache wrote: »

The problem is that locals aren't looking at the broader picture of the network change, and it's understandable in a way. A big obstacle out in Dublin West, and a major stumbling block, is the designation of Blanchardstown Centre as the hub, which is madness. Buses have been routed to avoid that area in order to improve the service, now they're purposely routed to it. When you have issues like that, people aren't going to look past it, and I understand it's coming up at all the meetings out that way.

It makes me wonder how many of the people abhorrent at the idea of using Blanch as the hub actually take the bus to get there rather than driving. Yes, the current state of the centre is a nightmare to get to by car, but on a bus along one of the many routings with bus lanes (basically every direction except from Blanch village), it's a breeze.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

6. I object to the re-numbering of routes, this has added unnecessary complexity to these proposals. -

That takes the cake as it is. The current numbering system is a jumbled mess that's a relic of bodging together routes over the last 40 years or so.