Hyundai Kona

unkel

@Water John - like an ICE on an IV drip, I love the analogy

samih wrote: »

Supermarket charging only needs to provide enough electricity for return trip to home really.

No disrespect, but that's a ridiculous statement. Why would anyone go through the trouble of getting their cable out, plug it in both ends, just to gain a couple of kWh

Deleted User wrote: »

The AC chargers are far from ridiculous

For non Zoe owners they are completely useless and ridiculous unless you are desperate to get juice and won't be able to finish your journey otherwise

No unkel ask any leaf owner with 6.6 kw charger, far from useless utter bs thing to come out with.

As I said, on many occasions they have saved me needing to use fast chargers at all, you just don't get it fine.

Unkel, with no disrespect you have been spoiled with your free local DC charger that you use instead of your personal EVSE. What LIDL should cater for are EV users that reach home at low state of charge at the end of the day but can regardless head to the localish shop as they are guaranteed to get enough juice in the trip to make it back home (to plug in there overnight).

Installing a fast charger in shops is wrong especially if it's FOC as it will attract freeloaders that will stop you using it when you really need it to get back home.

Gumbo

One FCP or a bank of SCP, I'd rather the bank of slow chargers myself too.
If I use your supermarket, then I'm there for 30 mins minimum and a little on board is better than none imho.

If it was a FCP, then the car shouldn't be left abandoned so would negate its usefulness.

unkel

samih wrote: »

What LIDL should cater for are EV users that reach home at low state of charge at the end of the day but can regardless head to the localish shop as they are guaranteed to get enough juice in the trip to make it back home

Thankfully Lidl don't agree with you. And how far do people live away from their local supermarket that they couldn't make it home without topping up? Ridiculous point. You wouldn't make a small detour to go shopping if that meant you might run out of juice (if the slow charger wasn't working)

Slow chargers are for people who don't have home charging who can park up all day (at train station park and rides etc.) or tourists staying somewhere for at least several hours, but even at that stretch they are very 2009. Hopefully soon enough all charging is fast and charged for (except the brilliant Lidl initiative of a free quick charge to go with your cheap quick grocery shop)

unkel

kceire wrote: »

One FCP or a bank of SCP, I'd rather the bank of slow chargers myself too.
If I use your supermarket, then I'm there for 30 mins minimum and a little on board is better than none imho.

kceire wrote: »

If it's a slow charger then it trickle charges the car. They are called SCP's and designed as destination chargers. So you park up and plug in all day or whatever is required.

No EV owner would be planning to use one of these during the course of the day unless you could be plugged in for a couple of hours.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

And how far do people live away from their local supermarket that they couldn't make it home without topping up? Ridiculous point. You wouldn't make a small detour to go shopping if that meant you might run out of juice (if the slow charger wasn't working)

It all depends on your point of view but for many 24 kWh Leaf drivers driving to local supermarket might be the final trip of the day that is too far. If there was a bank of slow chargers you'd be guaranteed to find one that was working and free. If there is only one FCP instead you couldn't count on it at all. I guess it would be useful if your local store was out of a weekly item and there was one available at Drogheda.

Funny that some other 24 kWh Leaf drivers above with much more experience on how it's to live with one agree with usefulness of multiple SCPs over one FCP at supermarket.

unkel

That's because they are used to the "old" system. People are set in their ways. I've seen it mentioned here many times: "sure a little top up will do no harm", "better than nothing" etc.

I honestly can't see why someone would top up at 3.3kWh per hour for a 30 minute supermarket visit (a saving of €0.10)

Unless they absolutely had to. Who would go through all that trouble for €0.10? Would that 1.5kWh really make the difference in getting you home?

Even for a first gen Leaf with a dodgy battery and only a 90km range, this is very unlikely (90km * 365 days = 32k km per year, almost double the national average)

unkel

And for the record, I've slow charged just twice. Once to try it out and once as a tourist visiting a town for the best part of a day so that's was very useful. Like I said, slow chargers are only of use for:

-tourists
-park and ride for people going to work or anyone parked at their work
-on street for people who have no home charging

And all of those are only useful because there aren't more fast chargers! We need plenty of fast chargers for those people, and people will need to pay for charging. But if the likes of Lidl are providing fast chargers free of charge for their customers, they have my blessing

KCross

I like the Kona anyway!

Hmm when I go to blanch I use the scp , why ? Because I save the guts of 30 mins waiting at the fast charger. Jesus h Christ how could anyone call that useless ? I just get back to the car and drive home back talk the way to Carlow.

Now if I get leaf II I probably wouldn't be bothered charging at all because I'll have more than enough for the round trip.

Water John

That's the point. SCPs are out of date already. Are we, as a country, but in whole lines of them along the street and in every carpark.
Two lots of people will require charging, those without access to home charging and those on a long commuter run.
FCPs, taking 10/15 mins max, fit the bill for both. SCPs are for home charging only, in the future, which is soon.

Yeah , the Kona should fit my needs. I won't be taking detours, like this one.

No not out dated because I could wish to travel to some place further and the SCP will still give me the juice I need to get back home, again, without needing to wait at a fast charger.

But by all means give me faster DC charging and many more chargers so I don't have to queue.

liamog

A Kona with a 50kWh battery would be capable of charging at 125kW with current Hyundai/Kia technology.
The rumoured spec of ~350km gives it an efficiency of 14kWh/100km.

Your 30 minute charging session would give you 23.5km of range, or a 6.5% increase in battery level. Barely noticeable and not likely worth the effort.

Instead I'm going to call in at the 150kW station installed by the WeWon'tBeUsedBy24kWhLeafs Charging company who recently struck a deal with CircleK to install one at every petrol station.
They ban you from the charger after 10 minutes because they used to be called the PleaseDon'tUseUsWeHaveToKeepClearForShortRangeCars Charging company.
You've taken onboard a healthy 21kWh and can happily drive another 150km with no worries, you even get a free refill of your coffee

unkel

liamog wrote: »

The rumoured spec of ~350km gives it an efficiency of 14kWh/100km.

Sounds about right. I've averaged about 11kWh/100km in Ioniq in the past month or so myself. Always in sport. Driving it hard. Plenty of M50 motorway driving @110km/h but not a lot of the faster motorway sections. That's a range of over 250km. Plenty of German / Dutch owners with a lighter foot report averaging 280-300km

Obviously Kona consumption is heavier because of its shape. But it has a much bigger battery. What's Kona's coefficient of drag, anyone know?

Dglflyer

European release : summer 2018
350km (epa range )
Another silent assassin of the fossil fuel industry
The transition off oil kicks into high gear next year
Kona, leaf , Model 3 ...

Dont be at yourself

Think this could be the car for me when my Ioniq lease expires in Spring '19.

ethernet

I see some prices on the Hyundai site now. Can't find any reference to the electric version though :-/

cros13

ethernet wrote: »

I see some prices on the Hyundai site now. Can't find any reference to the electric version though :-/

The combustion version launched officially this month.
The electric version won't be here until Q1 next year.

thierry14

cros13 wrote: »

The combustion version launched officially this month.
The electric version won't be here until Q1 next year.

Here before March next year?

In 60kwh?

cros13

thierry14 wrote: »

Here before March next year?

In 60kwh?

Official launch will be ~Q1. When it gets to Ireland and whether the higher capacity battery may be delayed or not will be down to battery supply but yeah... late Q1 into Q2.

Test vehicles were spotted in public in Korea as early as last december/january ( http://www.etnews.com/20170113000375 ).

Hyundai has largely just been waiting on a new LG Chem production line to open at the Ochang plant to produce sufficient battery cells. That new line is supposedly up and running around the end of the month.
Possibly near the end of the year LG Chem will start exporting cells from the chinese plants given they are not allowed to sell them into the chinese market since the THAAD/North Korea debacle.

In addition to the rumor mill in my industry... here's a few public refs:
http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/english/news/industry/18276-popularity-ioniq-hyundai-ioniq-production-held-battery-shortage
https://s1.q4cdn.com/337451660/files/doc_articles/2016/161214-Benchmark-approved-for-distribution-Lithium-ion-supply-chain.pdf

liamog

Kona EV and Niro EV seen testing in Germany

https://insideevs.com/kia-niro-electric-spy-shots-surface/

Latest information from Hyundai Norway is two packs 42.7 kWh and 64.2 kWh for the Kona.

Jakey Rolling

Test drove the Kona yesterday (1.0 litre petrol obviously) - really like it.
The driving seat has a really snug cockpit feel. Lots of electronic stuff as standard on Executive model - large touchscreen with Android Auto etc, lane assist (freaky have the steering fighting back!), electric seat adjustment.
Ride was a bit noisy, but had the Premium version with 18" wheels, a bit of overkill with only 110bhp on tap.

Would definitely be a front runner for me when the EV version comes out, depending on the pricing.

The one thing that gets me - no manufacturers seem to be putting extra power points in the back seat for charging devices, surely it would be cheap as chips to add this to the wiring loom during manufacture. Anyhow, the Kona has 2x12v outlets in the dash, so could run an adaptor with a long cable to the back seats to keep the kids happy. Unnecessarily messy though.

Edit: Just occurred to me, it doesn't look the most aerodynamically efficient, maybe it will need that 60kWh battery to get any decent range!

Shefwedfan

Was up north today and see the Kona. Looked really nice if a little small. It was locked so couldn't get into it but interior looked nice

the Misses was laughing at me and she thinks I am going to buy it when it is released :-)

peposhi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Was up north today and see the Kona. Looked really nice if a little small. It was locked so couldn't get into it but interior looked nice

the Misses was laughing at me and she thinks I am going to buy it when it is released :-)

Well, she gets the Golf then

Shefwedfan

peposhi wrote: »

Well, she gets the Golf then

No she loves her Galaxy.....

AMKC

who_ru wrote: »

Hyundai/Kia have some lame names for their vehicles especially Kia, I mean the Rio, the Niro..

Rio and Niro are not bad names. Stonic is a terrible name for a car do which is Kia's name for its car to compete against the Kona.

cros13

AMKC wrote: »

Stonic is a terrible name for a car do which is Kia's name for its car to compete against the Kona.

Well in fairness the Stonic is basically the exact same car as the Kona...both built by Hyundai on the same platform with the same powertrains.
The main difference being one you buy from a dealership with a Kia sign out front and the other from a dealership with a Hyundai sign.

You are right though, Stonic sounds more like an own-brand energy drink than a car.

Dglflyer

You should ask your missus if she would like to spend a few grand in Harrods or give it to someone else to spend ( stroll thru on a Thursday evening in July to see for your self) . I have been driving an Ioniq for 10 Months, covered 38000km , saved ~4000 euro ,

Met a leaf owner at an FCP last night, covered 161000, in two years saving imho 18000 euro


Get a car with this type of range and deciding on which petrol station to go to will be based on how good their coffee is ....

The tipping point is NOW...

thierry14

Dglflyer wrote: »

You should ask your missus if she would like to spend a few grand in Harrods or give it to someone else to spend ( stroll thru on a Thursday evening in July to see for your self) . I have been driving an Ioniq for 10 Months, covered 38000km , saved ~4000 euro ,

Met a leaf owner at an FCP last night, covered 161000, in two years saving imho 18000 euro


Get a car with this type of range and deciding on which petrol station to go to will be based on how good their coffee is ....

The tipping point is NOW...

Depreciation on that leaf will wipe out a lot of savings

No one is gone buy a Leaf with over 160k on the clock

Hope he didn't buy it new

He must have been fast charging nearly twice a day too doing that milage

irishgrover

thierry14 wrote: »

Depreciation on that leaf will wipe out a lot of savings

No one is gone buy a Leaf with over 160k on the clock

Hope he didn't buy it new

He must have been fast charging nearly twice a day too doing that milage

With regards to fuel savings....it's a no brainer..
With regards to depreciation, what ice car would be better.....?

listermint

thierry14 wrote: »

Depreciation on that leaf will wipe out a lot of savings

No one is gone buy a Leaf with over 160k on the clock

Hope he didn't buy it new

He must have been fast charging nearly twice a day too doing that milage

How exactly ?

It sounds like he would literally get free mothering for 3 years plus .

So basically you are entirely wrong.

Entirely .

Soarer

thierry14 wrote: »

Depreciation on that leaf will wipe out a lot of savings

No one is gone buy a Leaf with over 160k on the clock

Hope he didn't buy it new

He must have been fast charging nearly twice a day too doing that milage

Tripe.

thierry14

irishgrover wrote: »

With regards to fuel savings....it's a no brainer..
With regards to depreciation, what ice car would be better.....?

If your doing 80k a year you buy something that doesn't depreciate like mad

Fuel costs are minor in the grand scheme

thierry14

Soarer wrote: »

Tripe.

How?

A Leaf with 160k on the clock is worthless

thierry14

listermint wrote: »

How exactly ?

It sounds like he would literally get free mothering for 3 years plus .

So basically you are entirely wrong.

Entirely .

Its not free if that 25k car is now worth 5k after 2 years motoring

irishgrover

thierry14 wrote: »

If your doing 80k a year you buy something that doesn't depreciate like mad

Fuel costs are minor in the grand scheme

Yeah, I hear ya, but the exact same would apply to an ice, or any other car.....
He still saves significant money on fuel which negates the alleged higher level of depreciation. ..

Water John

I know it's Grounhog Day but Thierry seems to have gone back 12 months, to the points he used to make then. Thought he had evolved but like the guy in the Dallas show, he must have just been, in the shower.

thierry14

irishgrover wrote: »

Yeah, I hear ya, but the exact same would apply to an ice, or any other car.....
He still saves significant money on fuel which negates the alleged higher level of depreciation. ..

Thats true

I just dont see a market for a Leaf with that big milage

Who would buy it?

I can't even find one for sale with over 160k on the clock

160k in a modern diesel that can do 5l/100km is about 9-10k euro in fuel

Say you buy it a new 25k Golf diesel and do 160k in it over 2 years it will be worth maybe 10-11k after those 2 years, market there for it

Youve lost 14k depreciation and spent 9k on fuel

23k motoring cost

Leaf with that milage done in 2 years will be worth maybe 6-8k after buying for 25k new

Lost say 17k in depreciation

Maybe 1.5k on fuel cost ( you'll be spending most of your on fcp getting free electricity at that milage per year)

Say 18.5k cost of motoring roughly

I don't see how that guy saved 18k in fuel

He only saved 5-6k in those 2 years and would be charging a lot

Not including servicing costs as brand new cars need very little and are underwarranty anyway

Dglflyer

I basically quadrupled my savings ,

Had a ford kuga which would take me 650-700 km on a tank and cost ~80 euro to fill

38000/700 * 80 = 4320 , which is what i have saved in diesel costs for the last 10 months

the leaf driver has done 4 times that which brings him to the ~18 k in savings

And yes I charge a lot , always plug it in at night and fcp when I have to , which is more often than I like. That
is why I cant wait to see the new Kona EV, which imho is as much a ground breaking car as the model 3 or the bolt

Somewhat similar range , more popular styling ( every body seems to want some sort of suv these days ) and more affordable than
the model 3 imho

Yet despite the unveil being 5 weeks away I find little or no reporting ...


I believe the leaf driver was visiting the fcp going to and from work as he had a lenghty commute

Soarer

thierry14 wrote: »

Say you buy it a new 25k Golf diesel and do 160k in it over 2 years it will be worth maybe 10-11k after those 2 years, market there for it

Youve lost 14k depreciation and spent 9k on fuel

23k motoring cost

Leaf with that milage done in 2 years will be worth maybe 6-8k after buying for 25k new

Lost say 17k in depreciation

Maybe 1.5k on fuel cost ( you'll be spending most of your on fcp getting free electricity at that milage per year)

Say 18.5k cost of motoring roughly

I don't see how that guy saved 18k in fuel

He only saved 5-6k in those 2 years and would be charging a lot

Not including servicing costs as brand new cars need very little and are underwarranty anyway

Again, tripe.

You just randomly make up numbers to try prove a point? We can all do that.

Your diesel Golf, doing 100k miles at 60mpg and €1.35 a litre, comes in at €10,200.
A long service interval of 20k miles will give 5 basic services @ €200 each from a main dealer, assuming nothing else goes wrong.
On top of the €14k depreciation you've quoted, that's over €25k if the car runs faultlessly. Not to mention higher road tax and insurance.

As for your Leaf numbers, do you honestly believe that a 2 year old Leaf would only be worth €6-€8k? My 2011 Leaf has 100k miles on it, and I only paid €6k for it last year.
But even if we use your Leaf figures, and coupled them with my Golf figures, that gives a saving of at least €7,000 over 2 years. Pretty much saving €70 per week.
I'd be happy with that.

thierry14

Soarer wrote: »

Again, tripe.

You just randomly make up numbers to try prove a point? We can all do that.

Your diesel Golf, doing 100k miles at 60mpg and €1.35 a litre, comes in at €10,200.
A long service interval of 20k miles will give 5 basic services @ €200 each from a main dealer, assuming nothing else goes wrong.
On top of the €14k depreciation you've quoted, that's over €25k if the car runs faultlessly. Not to mention higher road tax and insurance.

As for your Leaf numbers, do you honestly believe that a 2 year old Leaf would only be worth €6-€8k? My 2011 Leaf has 100k miles on it, and I only paid €6k for it last year.
But even if we use your Leaf figures, and coupled them with my Golf figures, that gives a saving of at least €7,000 over 2 years. Pretty much saving €70 per week.
I'd be happy with that.

You have to service a Leaf too!

Insurance ain't cheaper, from users here it seems the opposite for some

Can't believe you paid 6k for a 100km at best car with 160k on the clock with batteries that degrade like a smartphone, that's a great deal

DrPhilG

thierry14 wrote: »

batteries that degrade like a smartphone

Occasionally you make sense and I start thinking that you're just misunderstood and merely a bit of a cautious cynic.

Then you come out with this kind of pish and I go back to thinking that you're an elaborate troll.

thierry14

DrPhilG wrote: »

Occasionally you make sense and I start thinking that you're just misunderstood and merely a bit of a cautious cynic.

Then you come out with this kind of pish and I go back to thinking that you're an elaborate troll.

Early Leafs did

Its not pish

Soarer

thierry14 wrote: »

You have to service a Leaf too!

You don't have to. It's a condition of warranty, but it's not necessary. Unlike an ICE, it won't stop working without a service.

thierry14 wrote: »

Insurance ain't cheaper, from users here it seems the opposite for some

Very few, but again picking numbers to suit.

From someone that actually has an ev, my insurance went from €525 TPFT, to €295 fully comprehensive.Most ev owners have had their insurance reduced.

thierry14 wrote: »

Can't believe you paid 6k for a 100km at best car with 160k on the clock with batteries that degrade like a smartphone, that's a great deal

Again tripe from someone that has no skin in the game.

My daily driving is, at most, 50kms. Over the week, it averages 30kms per day. Why would I need an ev with a 200km range? Or an ICE for that matter?
My insurance has pretty much halved with an increase in cover.
My road tax has quartered.
My fuel bill has disappeared.
My servicing costs have vanished.
And buying my car wasn't a great idea???

I'm not even gonna comment on that battery rubbish.

goz83

thierry14 wrote: »

Early Leafs did

Its not pish

I bought a 2012 Leaf with ~80k on her. Got it for 5k.....cheapest Leaf sold here afaik. 1 battery bar gone. Car was in near perfect condition save for the heater not working (something I plan to fix myself) and a damaged passenger mirror, which I replaced for free [I bought a set and made my money back selling the damaged one and the working one].

It replaced a 2006 Zafira.
Tax was cut to a quarter.
Insurance about the same.
No service plans in mind.
Cost of fuel is probably zero because of night rate electricity encouraging us to be more energy efficient.

The range matters very little when all your driving is within range. Would I like more range? Absolutley. Do I need it? No. I could manage with a range of 50klms per day easily, but I would never do long distance.

With the range of the Leaf, I am happy enough to do a longer journey and charge at a FCP. The fact that it’s free is just gravy.

thierry14

Soarer wrote: »

You don't have to. It's a condition of warranty, but it's not necessary. Unlike an ICE, it won't stop working without a service.



Very few, but again picking numbers to suit.

From someone that actually has an ev, my insurance went from €525 TPFT, to €295 fully comprehensive.Most ev owners have had their insurance reduced.



Again tripe from someone that has no skin in the game.

My daily driving is, at most, 50kms. Over the week, it averages 30kms per day. Why would I need an ev with a 200km range? Or an ICE for that matter?
My insurance has pretty much halved with an increase in cover.
My road tax has quartered.
My fuel bill has disappeared.
My servicing costs have vanished.
And buying my car wasn't a great idea???

I'm not even gonna comment on that battery rubbish.

Seeing as you bought it to save money, like all Leaf owners

Why didn't you just buy a Yaris or Corolla for 1k

Besides fuel cost of 20e a week on your driving its the same running cost, don't have to service them either

Leaf has maintenance too

Loads of consumables to change in it too

Batteries in the early Leafs degrade badly, proven fact

Sure ignore away

Soarer

thierry14 wrote: »

Seeing as you bought it to save money, like all Leaf owners

Why didn't you just buy a Yaris or Corolla for 1k

Besides fuel cost of 20e a week on your driving its the same running cost, don't have to service them either

Leaf has maintenance too

Loads of consumables to change in it too

Batteries in the early Leafs degrade badly, proven fact

Sure ignore away

Again, you've no skin in the game, so your opinion isn't worth the keyboard it's typed on.

But so you can actually listen to some firsthand experience...
My car has 162k kms on it.
There are 2 cells gone.
I have a "normal" range of about 90kms.
The most I do per day is 50kms.
So I reckon I can aford to lose another 3 cells before range becomes an issue.
I'll get fed up of the car long before the battery loses 3 more cells.

Also, you might let us know the "loads of consumables" that the Leaf goes through, so I can put aside my fuel/tax/insurance savings to pay for them.

thierry14

Soarer wrote: »

Again, you've no skin in the game, so your opinion isn't worth the keyboard it's typed on.

But so you can actually listen to some firsthand experience...
My car has 162k kms on it.
There are 2 cells gone.
I have a "normal" range of about 90kms.
The most I do per day is 50kms.
So I reckon I can aford to lose another 3 cells before range becomes an issue.
I'll get fed up of the car long before the battery loses 3 more cells.

Also, you might let us know the "loads of consumables" that the Leaf goes through, so I can put aside my fuel/tax/insurance savings to pay for them.

Its not my opinion

Its a fact

Go check US forums and see how pissed they are with it

Will u stop with the skin crap I will have a proper EV before you do

Soarer

This must be incredibly boring for everyone else, as it's extremely boring for me. So this will be my final say on it.

thierry14 wrote: »

Its not my opinion

Its a fact

I own an ev with 2 cells gone!!
I don't need you, or anyone, to tell me how the range is affected. You drive an old diesel ICE. You have ZERO experience when it comes to evs, so your opinion is to be taken with a huge dollop of salt.

thierry14 wrote: »

Go check US forums and see how pissed they are with it

We're in Ireland, which has a temperate climate. Our battery performance is in no way comparable to someone living in Nevada. As such, maybe stop taking notice of US forums, and listen to people living here with real Irish world experience.

thierry14 wrote: »

Will u stop with the skin crap I will have a proper EV before you do

Oooo, you really hit me where it hurts there! You win the internet!

I personally, and I reckon I speak for most ev owners on here, can't wait until you own an ev. You'll then be able to stop with the misinformed drivel you tend to spew.
You'll probably still spew drivel mind. But at least it'll be based on personal experince, not on something you read on a US forum.

Then you'll have skin in the game!