Hyundai Kona

slicedpanman

Now this looks like the business;
http://pushevs.com/2017/05/26/details-hyundai-kona-electric/

Time to get saving

Soarer

Jays us, there'll never be a good time to bite the bullet!

Water John

Great to see this market, ripening quickly, with new models and greater range.

goz83

Hopefully a full size suv will follow very soon.

ei9go

slicedpanman wrote: »

Now this looks like the business;
http://pushevs.com/2017/05/26/details-hyundai-kona-electric/

Time to get saving

Exactly what I want to replace the Captur

man_no_plan

Soarer wrote: »

Jays us, there'll never be a good time to bite the bullet!

Better not show her this until i have the Ioniq bought!

Exactly what I'm looking for just hope it has the power to move it and not something silly like 100-150 HP. That would rapidly remove my interest.

It looks a decent size too.

My lease is up in January and I doubt I'll keep the Leaf so looks like Leaf II for me, maybe.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly what I'm looking for just hope it has the power to move it and not something silly like 100-150 HP. That would rapidly remove my interest.

LOL, Mad_Lad gone speed obsessed? Even with 125BHP it will be significantly quicker than your Leaf. If you want faster again and still EV, there's only one option: i3. Or wait longer for the Model 3.

How's 15 HP going to make it significantly faster than the Leaf ? in a larger heavier car ? you're some man, I know you love your Ioniq and all but seriously man.........

Even Cros debunked your unbelievable statement that the Ioniq is significantly faster than the Leaf, you would hardly feel it, then again I came from an EV.

I'm not speed obsessed but I want more power for faster acceleration and more top end shove.

man_no_plan

Get a rpom

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How's 15 HP going to make it significantly faster than the Leaf ? in a larger heavier car ? you're some man, I know you love your Ioniq and all but seriously man.........

Even Cros debunked your unbelievable statement that the Ioniq is significantly faster than the Leaf, you would hardly feel it, then again I came from an EV.

I'm not speed obsessed but I want more power for faster acceleration and more top end shove.

Get a room you two 😊

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly what I'm looking for just hope it has the power to move it and not something silly like 100-150 HP. That would rapidly remove my interest.

It looks a decent size too.

My lease is up in January and I doubt I'll keep the Leaf so looks like Leaf II for me, maybe.

Haha

Your risk the wrath of boat here madlad ðŸ˜

Torque man, torque is all you need, think of the torque, it will go like a scalded cat with its torque and 120bhp ☺

Bhp don't matter like, efficiency of the drive train and torque lol

On a serious note if it's over 1600kg it really needs about 200bhp drive train to move along nicely

I see the model 3 has been timed at 0-60 in 5.6secs and just under 300bhp

That's a machine

What I love about this news and no offence to Hyundai and Kia group but if they can make a class car like the Ioniq and this nee Kona here

Imagine what the heavyweights like VW group, BMW, Mercedes, Jap giants will do when they are forced to compete

Driving will become interesting again

They have to look at speed limits for sure as electric is going to be biblically quick when they all start competiting against each other

Thank **** Tesla make quick cars and didnt go the Nissan route of boring us to death

Torque is fine but more torque means more HP or lets forget about HP and say Kw.

Now for the same Kw you can trade some low end torque and spread it out more at the mid and top. Or a 2 speed Gearbox would suit lower powered electrics well.

bk

This looks like a really great car and would be perfect for my needs, but pity about the name, the missus will never allow me to buy it with a name like that :eek:

She would never leave me live it down driving around in a car that is basically called the Hyundai Pussy (not the cat type!) in Portuguese!

who_ru

Hyundai/Kia have some lame names for their vehicles especially Kia, I mean the Rio, the Niro..

patmac

i had a look at the Tesla 3 , 400,000 pre-orders and no cars built yet. €1000 deposit and could be waiting till 2020 before I receive it by the time they iron out all the bugs and God knows what price.

geotrig

i like the kia niro name

thierry14

patmac wrote: »

i had a look at the Tesla 3 , 400,000 pre-orders and no cars built yet. €1000 deposit and could be waiting till 2020 before I receive it by the time they iron out all the bugs and God knows what price.

They will be gobbled up by the autogiants in time or bought out imo

I am not a rich man and if I had 40k to spend I would be giving it to a company like Hyundai/Audi etc who I know are proven and will be around for a long time

If Tesla has any problems at all with Model 3 supply, reliability and build quality early on and rivals like Audi etc bring out something decent they are screwed, those 400k buyers wont be long backing out and shareholders too

They can be the next giant or go bust who knows

They do make fast cars, I like them for that

That's all they have over Hyundai etc at the minute imo and brand of course

I just don't understand why Audi won't bring out a 45k Audi A5 with 400km range, 300bhp and crush them while they can

bk

thierry14 wrote: »

They will be gobbled up by the autogiants in time or bought out imo

Well they simply couldn't at the moment, Telsas market cap now makes them the most valuable car company in the US. More then Ford or GM!

Of course if they don't deliver on the Model 3, then that will quickly drop. But you have to remember Tesla are far more then just another car company. They are more a battery/energy company, also making battery storage devices and solar panels.

Overall I suspect they will end up growing way beyond any of the traditional car companies in the broader sense.

thierry14 wrote: »

I just don't understand why Audi won't bring out a 45k Audi A5 with 400km range, 300bhp and crush them while they can

Batteries, batteries, batteries.

This is the point everyone seems to be missing. To make mass market EV cars, you need an insane amount of batteries. Tesla knows this, which is why it went into partnership with Panasonic years ago and built the Gigafactory.

To put the scale required into perspective for you, the Gigafactory is the second biggest building in the world. Only Boeings airplane factory is bigger!

Outside of Tesla/Panasonic, the traditional car companies and third party battery companies simply have nowhere near the capacity to build and sell lots of mass market EV's. They are scrambling to build such factories now, but it will take them years to catch up on Teslas head start.

It is easy for any company to make a 400km, 300bhp prototype or even a low rate production demonstrator. It is a different manner completely to build 500,000 of them a year and still make a profit!

In the mean time, that gives Tesla lots of space to grow it's market share and brand. Of course at least some of the traditional car companies will survive and produce great EV's too. But by the time they do, I suspect Tesla will have carved out a massive market share for itself and won't be going anywhere.

slicedpanman

Confirmed for 2018 PushEVs

BoatMad

Yes but the lack of a dedicated battery plant will kill them if they don't sort supply

BoatMad

In relation to Audi etc

While the battery supply chain is an issue , you have many others , you have price point issues , standardisation issues etc and most importantly of all , market size issues and hence profitability

The CFO of BMW recently stated he believed that there was 10 years of losses ahead with electric cars and BMW would have to grin and bear it.

cros13

New Kona EV spy shots:

http://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-ev-spied/

Water John

Well , that does Cork -Dublin with 60km left.

liamog

Water John wrote: »

Well , that does Cork -Dublin with 60km left.

And it's a compact SUV, that's the school run crowd hogging fast chargers forevermore.

bk

liamog wrote: »

And it's a compact SUV, that's the school run crowd hogging fast chargers forevermore.

With that range you don't really need fast charging. Just charge at home.

And certainly better to have EV's outside schools rather dirty Diesels spewing Nox in our kids faces. Whatever it takes to get the general public to buy EV's

I have to say I'm really digging the idea of this vehicle. Range enough for my needs and if it comes with AWD, perfect for going hiking, etc.

Water John

They can plug in, at home. Tell them, they can have the car heated and warm to sit into if they do. Once they find that, they won't change back, hearts and minds, won.

DrPhilG

bk wrote: »

With that range you don't really need fast charging. Just charge at home.

Most of those hogging chargers now don't need them either and could charge at home.

Water John

I think it will be a mighty seller, could see delays filling orders.

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

New Kona EV spy shots:

http://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-ev-spied/

Nice car, why the camouflage though?

Their own website shows a video of the New Kona in their sales material unless the EV version is different (which I doubt).
http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona

And loads of pics if you google it.

Should sell well if priced in the low 30s, which you have said it will be...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057772658

and I believe everything I read!

bk

DrPhilG wrote: »

Most of those hogging chargers now don't need them either and could charge at home.

That issue will go away once price charging is introduced for fast charging as I'm sure it will. Their is an incentive for these people to use fast chargers now. Once fast charging costs the same or more then at home charging, these people will clearly go away.

Aside from those who live in apartments etc. and have no other choice.

liamog

bk wrote: »

With that range you don't really need fast charging. Just charge at home.

With that range you don't need to charge at home, you could just charge at public chargers once a week (it works both ways)

BoatMad

They have to look at speed limits for sure as electric is going to be biblically quick when they all start competiting against each other

Thank **** Tesla make quick cars and didnt go the Nissan route of boring us to deat

Personally , I find the current Leaf has far more power then I need for a typically Jap Econo-box, low end pickup is very good and more then sufficient for good overtaking. 50-70 mph is a little weak , but then again the leaf is not a > 60mph car in my view, so the issue doesnt arise

note that BHP, torque and Kw are simple the same measurement, they are mathematically related ( by a constant )

I suspect Nissan are raising the power to just improve 50-70 and also to prepare the body for the weight of a larger battery as well

As for biblically quick EVs, yes the technology can provide it and certain segments ( hot hatch and medallion men etc ) will pay for performance, but the regulatory environment to exploit powerful cars is rapidly becoming draconian.

My own view is that EV performance will range across many models , just like current ICE, with pedestrian performance models and high performance models being offered across a range of cars

unkel

Jaysus you killjoy. I'd take a RWD EV with lots of power anytime over our Asian adequately powered Econo-boxes with FWD

And not a medallion in sight on my hairy chest

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally , I find the current Leaf has far more power then I need for a typically Jap Econo-box, low end pickup is very good and more then sufficient for good overtaking. 50-70 mph is a little weak , but then again the leaf is not a > 60mph car in my view, so the issue doesnt arise

note that BHP, torque and Kw are simple the same measurement, they are mathematically related ( by a constant )

I suspect Nissan are raising the power to just improve 50-70 and also to prepare the body for the weight of a larger battery as well

As for biblically quick EVs, yes the technology can provide it and certain segments ( hot hatch and medallion men etc ) will pay for performance, but the regulatory environment to exploit powerful cars is rapidly becoming draconian.

My own view is that EV performance will range across many models , just like current ICE, with pedestrian performance models and high performance models being offered across a range of cars

My leaf - during the work week anyway - spends more time north of, than south of, 60 "mph" (~100km/h in real terms)

bk

liamog wrote: »

With that range you don't need to charge at home, you could just charge at public chargers once a week (it works both ways)

Sure, but I'd be very surprised if public charging, in particular fast charging would be cheaper then charging at home once price charging for public charging comes in!

And anyway why would you bother your ass sitting around in some crappy garage twice a week for 30 minutes each time, when you can much more easily plug in at home and go to bed and wake up with a nice full car (handy if you have an unexpected trip).

I can't see many people using public charging beyond necessity (long distance driving, or live in an apartment, no charger), once they have to start paying for public charging.

liamog

Public charging won't be cheaper than home charging, but a subscription plus homelike costs (see Fastned Power) for 18 months is about the same as a private home install.
Nissan used to give a free 2 year fastned subscription with purchase, Hyundai have a subscription plan covering charging costs in California.

I'll stick to charging whilst I'm picking up my groceries, I don't fancy driving to a crappy garage either.
I'll probably manage just fine without the car being 100% every morning, we spent years driving cars that weren't at full range everyday.

The Kona is rumoured to have a 50kWh battery, presuming they use the same or better battery tech as the Ioniq it should be capable of charging up to 125kW.
That could give you 300km of range in 20 minutes.

bk

liamog wrote: »

Public charging won't be cheaper than home charging, but a subscription plus homelike costs (see Fastned Power) for 18 months is about the same as a private home install.

Fastned looks great, but eCars seemed to be suggesting much higher costs lasy year. No guarantee we will end up with fastned type charging.

And even with fastned type pricing, it would still seem like a poor economic decision. 18 months isn't long, most people keep their car at least 3 years. So it would make more financial sense to pay for a home charger.

Specially if you consider that once most people go EV, they very rarely go back. So the EV charger you install today will likely continue to work for years if not decades to come.

So even fastneds attractive pricing would still be much less attractive then home charging.

liamog wrote: »

I'll stick to charging whilst I'm picking up my groceries, I don't fancy driving to a crappy garage either.

I prefer ordering my groceries at home sitting on the sofa with the TV on in the background and having a Tesco driver bring them right into my kitchen the next day, rather then the hell of dragging kids around a crappy shopping center

Seriously Tesco's delivery service is the best thing since sliced pan IMO.

ELM327

If the esb pricing is too high, arguably that could be good as it may encourage others like fastned or ecotricity to install chargers here

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

If the esb pricing is too high, arguably that could be good as it may encourage others like fastned or ecotricity to install chargers here

No because , any competitor knows that the ESB can simply reduce pricing to make them suddenly uncompetitive

its like the way Ryanair removes competition


its a function of market dominance , which in effect the ESB has

thats needs regulation , not competition

BoatMad

I'll stick to charging whilst I'm picking up my groceries, I don't fancy driving to a crappy garage either.

Thats fine as long as its a slow destination charger

what you will not be able to do , is leave a EV at the fast charger for more then its charging session . Thats only a function of the current " free " uncontrolled access model

That will end this year

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

No because , any competitor knows that the ESB can simply reduce pricing to make them suddenly uncompetitive

its like the way Ryanair removes competition


its a function of market dominance , which in effect the ESB has

thats needs regulation , not competition

It's the issue with an inherent monopoly I suppose, the cost of entry to the market and the price control potential is a barrier to any - even substantial like fastned - new entrants

cros13

FastNed's long term plans include a few Irish locations.

A UK expansion beyond London is likely first and the priority is probably the German expansion that they just started.

liamog

BoatMad wrote: »

Thats fine as long as its a slow destination charger

what you will not be able to do , is leave a EV at the fast charger for more then its charging session . Thats only a function of the current " free " uncontrolled access model

That will end this year

I'm beginning to worry about how long some EV drivers take to pick up groceries.
If it's taking you 4 hours your doing it wrong.

I take about 30 minutes, which seems to align with expectations for FCP charge times.

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

That will end this year

Au contraire. Lidl have already rolled out over 100 fast ABB DC chargers (53kW) free to use for customers. First one in Ireland opened last month. Drive up with your near empty car, charge, do your 25 minute weekly grocery shop and return to your car just about to finish charging.

Over time the charger costs will come down and businesses will slowly start installing them. Even if they started installing 20 Kw DC points in the likes of supermarkets and on street chargers it would greatly help a lot, while I love AC 20 Kw DC points would be a lot more useful to most EV owners but the AC points would be a lot cheaper.

unkel

20kW is still far too slow! My shop takes 20-25 minutes, not an hour and a half. I'm not gonna sit down and wait an hour after my shopping is done. And I'm not going to bother hooking up to take just 10kWh on board.

53kW chargers are adequate for now. Hope these can be upgraded to 150kW in a few years time.

20 kw chargers are plenty at supermarkets for an hours shopping at the likes of Tesco Naas , they could have 8 of them instead of one 60 kw charger.

20 kWh in an hour is far better than what most electrics get in an hour on AC.

unkel

Yeah it's better than those ridiculous AC chargers, they belong firmly back in 2009 :pac:


But 20kW is nowhere near good enough going forward. I doubt the average Lidl customer spends more than 25 minute in the shop. Let alone an hour and a half.

More chargers are definitely welcome in the grim network of Ireland but placing them in yet another shopping location to be hogged by freeloaders seem utterly wrong.

Supermarket charging only needs to provide enough electricity for return trip to home really. 60 kW DC charger is great if there is only 1 EV driver in town but for more than one EV customer, a row of 7 kW stations would be much more useful going forward. 20 minutes of charging would give you approx. 2 kWh, enough to do a return trip from next town. If two EVs shop at the same time you'd need to wait for your turn to charge. Combine this for long distance drivers using the free charge point will turn any such location to another Naas.

Water John

The reality of future uptake of EV means, charging at a public point will have to be quick. Logistics dictate that. It will be, how many cars can be charged by that charger in an hour, a day?
This had to be viewed 10/20 years ahead. Where is the whole project going?
Speed of converting personal transport to EV, will depend on the weakest link.

The collolary is pulling an ICE into a petrol station and getting your tank filled through an hospital IV line.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Yeah it's better than those ridiculous AC chargers, they belong firmly back in 2009 :pac:


But 20kW is nowhere near good enough going forward. I doubt the average Lidl customer spends more than 25 minute in the shop. Let alone an hour and a half.

The AC chargers are far from ridiculous, on many occasions AC has saved me driving to and waiting at a fast charger. Don't knock it because you deem the AC network useless. Until there are faster chargers everywhere then AC is highly useful especially with 7 + Kw on board chargers.