Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Buzzwords like white culture aren't working anymore.

Neither is deflection.

If you don't believe in multi-culturalism, you must believe in a single culture.

What culture is that?

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You said in previous posts it's due to drug use or some shíte, his father and brothers have been arrested.

Complete lack of comprehension.

I never once said Abedi committed this act due to drug use.

I said the facts appear to be he was a stoner who liked partying and lived an anti-Islam lifestyle for most of his life.

That's relevant to me because if Islam had a systemic and endemic problem in the way it's taught, we would see tens of millions more terrorists.

The fact that it mostly seems to be lads who are not religious until near-the-end, or not practising their religion, is encouraging to me that it's not an endemic problem within the religion.

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

Neither is deflection.

If you don't believe in multi-culturalism, you must believe in a single culture.

What culture is that?

Second time you've refused to address what Merkel said when I've replied to your posts. That's deflection.

I don't believe in a single culture, I believe that those who come here should want to come here to get along and contribute to society and respect the people already here. As I've stated previously multiculturalism doesn't work when those who come fail to integrate and accept that Countries way of life, it becomes self destructive and creates social problems, which is what is happening all over Europe.

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

Complete lack of comprehension.

I never once said Abedi committed this act due to drug use.

I said the facts appear to be he was a stoner who liked partying and lived an anti-Islam lifestyle for most of his life.

That's relevant to me because if Islam had a systemic and endemic problem in the way it's taught, we would see tens of millions more terrorists.

The fact that it mostly seems to be lads who are not religious until near-the-end, or not practising their religion, is encouraging to me that it's not an endemic problem within the religion.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-three-British-Muslims-would-NOT-give-police-terror-tip-offs

"TWO thirds of British Muslims would not inform the police if they thought that somebody close to them had become involved with terrorist sympathisers"

If you want to talk about comprehension, you said the same thing spiel about that Ben Shapiro video claiming his argument was that there's 100 million terrorists, his argument was that there's a foundation of people whose beliefs breed extremism.

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I don't people in a single culture, I believe that those who come here should want to come here to get along and contribute to society and respect the people already here.

When I was in the Mater for a month between the ICU and Cardiac ward, I'd say at least 3 Muslims were critical to my care, including a surgeon, a nurse and a consultant.

They came here. They get along with people. They contribute to society and respect people.

I don't believe they should have to come here and abandon their religion or suddenly start going out on the lash every Friday night or going down the bookies for Cheltenham so they can "fit in" with how "we" live.

I'm 100% biased and defensive of people painting Muslims and Islam as a dangerous people and a violent religion. You can work out why I am biased by what I wrote above.

ThinkProgress

wonderfullife wrote: »

Complete lack of comprehension.

I never once said Abedi committed this act due to drug use.

I said the facts appear to be he was a stoner who liked partying and lived an anti-Islam lifestyle for most of his life.

That's relevant to me because if Islam had a systemic and endemic problem in the way it's taught, we would see tens of millions more terrorists.

The fact that it mostly seems to be lads who are not religious until near-the-end, or not practising their religion, is encouraging to me that it's not an endemic problem within the religion.

But as others have correctly pointed out, the article you referenced seems to suggest that it took him YEARS to become radicalised...

So your attempt to portray this as some loser stoner, who rolled off the couch and became an overnight jihadist is bullsh*t... and anyone with real insight into this issue, understands that it's rarely that straight forward.

Islam is a dangerous cult, that is poisoning people's minds. That's the reality!

And leaders within the faith must be put under greater pressure and held to account for these atrocities!! We would expect no less if these acts were occurring under the banner of any other organised religion...

wonderfullife

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Islam is a dangerous cult, that is poisoning people's minds. That's the reality!

And leaders within the faith must be put under greater pressure and held to account for these atrocities!! We would expect no less if these acts were occurring under the banner of any other organised religion...

What more do you want them to do? They condemn every attack publicly.

Flip it around, how would you hold Christian leaders to account for a terrorist atrocity committed by a Christian?

What more can they do besides condemning it?

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

When I was in the Mater for a month between the ICU and Cardiac ward, I'd say at least 3 Muslims were critical to my care, including a surgeon, a nurse and a consultant.

They came here. They get along with people. They contribute to society and respect people.

I don't believe they should have to come here and abandon their religion or suddenly start going out on the lash every Friday night or going down the bookies for Cheltenham so they can "fit in" with how "we" live.

I'm 100% biased and defensive of people painting Muslims and Islam as a dangerous people and a violent religion. You can work out why I am biased by what I wrote above.

I'll try a third time, why are you continuing to ignore what Merkel said has happened in Germany as a result of their immigration decisions? She called it a complete failure and that it's created parallel societies. I think it's clear I'm talking about the refugee crisis and extreme views circulating in certain Mosques and so. I never said all Muslims were a problem or anything close to it.

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

What more do you want them to do? They condemn every attack publicly.

Flip it around, how would you hold Christian leaders to account for a terrorist atrocity committed by a Christian?

What more can they do besides condemning it?

Christians blah blah, pure deflection man. I'll answer that the next time there's a Christian suicide bomber at a kids concert.

ThinkProgress

wonderfullife wrote: »

What more do you want them to do? They condemn every attack publicly.

Flip it around, how would you hold Christian leaders to account for a terrorist atrocity committed by a Christian?

What more can they do besides condemning it?

Of course they can do a lot more... ffs don't be so naive!!

You seem to think that because not every Muslim is a terrorist, or because you've met some peaceful decent Muslims... this automatically means that other Muslims are not being radicalised by their faith. lol

That is frankly a laughable and deluded stance to take on the issue!

That merely proves that these people have choices... they can choose to turn away from the bad teachings within their culture/religion. But a large sizeable minority are clearly choosing the path of evil.

kaymin

wonderfullife wrote: »

What more do you want them to do? They condemn every attack publicly.

Flip it around, how would you hold Christian leaders to account for a terrorist atrocity committed by a Christian?

What more can they do besides condemning it?

You clearly haven't read the statement made by the mosque where the bomber worshipped. Not alone did they not condemn it but their sole concern was how the media was reporting on it and then refused to answer any questions.

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'll try a third time, why are you continuing to ignore what Merkel said has happened in Germany as a result of their immigration decisions? She called it a complete failure and that it's created parallel societies. I think it's clear I'm talking about the refugee crisis and extreme views circulating in certain Mosques and so. I never said all Muslims were a problem or anything close to it.

I don't know enough about Merkel's opinion to give you a fair response. I quite like the diversity we have in this country and I'm certainly glad we have great Muslim doctors coming in to work alongside our own great doctors.

But I'm glad you're admitting Islam isn't the problem in itself, just the extreme views/interpretations in certain Mosques.

I can agree with that.

wonderfullife

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Of course they can do a lot more... ffs don't be so naive!!

What do you want them to do?

You said they need to be held to account for actions of extremists.

Spell it out. What do you want done/said?

wonderfullife

kaymin wrote: »

You clearly haven't read the statement made by the mosque where the bomber worshipped. Not alone did they not condemn it but their sole concern was how the media was reporting on it and then refused to answer any questions.

If that's true that's extremely disappointing.

I did read many Muslim Leaders in the UK come out publicly condemning the attack and violence in all forms.

If this mosque refuses to co-sign that statement then that's a big problem.

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

I don't know enough about Merkel's opinion to give you a fair response. I quite like the diversity we have in this country and I'm certainly glad we have great Muslim doctors coming in to work alongside our own great doctors.

But I'm glad you're admitting Islam isn't the problem in itself, just the extreme views/interpretations in certain Mosques.

I can agree with that.

Didn't say that, I said not all Muslims, meaning some are moderate.

It's not hard to read what Merkel said, you're just dodging the question and being disingenuous because it disproves your point.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/12/14/angela-merkel-multiculturalism-is-a-sham/?utm_term=.a7009625bb47

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Christians blah blah, pure deflection man. I'll answer that the next time there's a Christian suicide bomber at a kids concert.

Only a kids concert? Try the Colorado Springs Terrorist, more recent.

What do you want the leaders of any religion to do in response to an atrocity by extremists?

Other than condemn it, what other steps do you want undertaken. Focus on Islam. What do you want Islamic leaders to do and say?

kaymin

wonderfullife wrote: »

If that's true that's extremely disappointing.

I did read many Muslim Leaders in the UK come out publicly condemning the attack and violence in all forms.

If this mosque refuses to co-sign that statement then that's a big problem.

https://www.google.ie/amp/observer.com/2017/05/manchester-mosque-statement-condemns-islamophobia/amp/

"The statement started with a firm insistence that this statement would be the only one and that there would be no questions. Then, the usual opening remarks about how the bomber had basically embarrassed Islam by his actions, and a half-hearted request to assist the police.

Then onto the real meat of the statement: an angry rant about how some sections of the media had suggested the bomber worked at the mosque. Effectively, the statement was, “How dare you get the details of our relationship with him wrong.”

They've since condemned the attack due to public / media pressure but it's clear how they really feel.

dav3

Well it didn't take long. Two days after the bombing the usual heads are ranting about multiculturalism, refugees, immigrants and the left. Like clockwork after these events, once the faux outrage and crocodile tears are out of the way by these people, they feel enabled to voice their outdated jaded opinions while never delivering solutions.
Meanwhile the rest of us are getting on with it and are trying to find solutions. To suggest the majority of people don't care is nonsensical.

Murrisk

dav3 wrote: »

Well it didn't take long. Two days after the bombing the usual heads are ranting about multiculturalism, refugees, immigrants and the left. Like clockwork after these events, once the faux outrage and crocodile tears are out of the way by these people, they feel enabled to voice their outdated jaded opinions while never delivering solutions furiously tugging at themselves.

FYP!

ThinkProgress

wonderfullife wrote: »

What do you want them to do?

You said they need to be held to account for actions of extremists.

Spell it out. What do you want done/said?

So you genuinely don't think Muslim leaders can do any more than merely make public statements condemning these attacks...?? (Which btw not all of them universally do)

Seriously? lol

I would have thought that was the minimum any decent person would do, if their "peaceful religion" was involved in such hideous atrocities!?

You really need me to spell out some actions they should be taking? I think you are being deliberately obtuse here... You have chosen your stance, and now you are being dumb and belligerent!

Here's an idea, why don't you try switching your brain on and have a little think for yourself?? See what you come up with...

IMO I don't see any strong desire among Muslim leaders, to route out the bad eggs within their religion... Most seem quite happy to deflect (like you), stick their heads in the sand, or just allow the west to take the full burden of responsibility...

If Muslims were such great honourable decent people, they would not act in this way! Personally I think most of them are cowards, who are afraid to take a strong stand against these people...

If these acts were being perpetrated by people from western cultures, I have no doubt that more of our citizens would stand up to them... Our people would not stand in the shadows and turn a blind eye to these evil thugs!!

HenryHill

wonderfullife wrote: »

What more do you want them to do? They condemn every attack publicly.

Flip it around, how would you hold Christian leaders to account for a terrorist atrocity committed by a Christian?

What more can they do besides condemning it?

Rat the people out in their community that they know are radicalised would be a good start.

testaccount123

dav3 wrote: »

Well it didn't take long. Two days after the bombing the usual heads are ranting about multiculturalism, refugees, immigrants and the left. Like clockwork after these events, once the faux outrage and crocodile tears are out of the way by these people, they feel enabled to voice their outdated jaded opinions while never delivering solutions.
Meanwhile the rest of us are getting on with it and are trying to find solutions. To suggest the majority of people don't care is nonsensical.

Where are your posts which are trying to find solutions?

The_Kew_Tour

It seems maybe people are finally waking up. Germany have said that he was in their country just days before the attack.

I think UK and likes of Germany are now starting to realise that they have to be more aggressive.

The problem is they knew where he was, what he was up to, for so long, yet, can not touch him and then killing 22 people and life injuries to many more is too late then.

Bebopclown

Does the 22 who died include the bomber?

sjb25

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The problem is they knew where he was, what he was up to, for so long, yet, can not touch him and then killing 22 people and life injuries to many more is too late then.

Yes but his rights etc etc the knew what he was at but couldn't prove it id imagin

sjb25

Bebopclown wrote: »

Does the 22 who died include the bomber?

Hopefully not that piece of sh1ts life don't count as far as I'm concerned

murpho999

sjb25 wrote: »

Hopefully not that piece of sh1ts life don't count as far as I'm concerned

Strange logic, it would be better if it did include him as it would mean less victims.

It doesn't though. Death toll is 22 plus the bomber.

ilkhanid

mikeybrennan wrote: »

There is plenty of evidence that coalition air-strikes are directly responsible for radicalization in the affected areas.

It's strange that one never hears about the plentiful suicide bombings and massacres-so common now they often go unremarked-that never cause any radicalisation.

sjb25

murpho999 wrote: »

Strange logic, it would be better if it did include him as it would mean less victims.

you no that's not what I ment my logic as you call it is that scumbag should not even be acknowledged by anybody

testaccount123

HenryHill wrote: »

Rat the people out in their community that they know are radicalised would be a good start.

To be fair I heard on the radio this morning that the Libyan community in Manchester had reported these guys to police