Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

BalcombeSt4

bubblypop wrote: »

Do you even understand what you are saying

He seems to be calling for a Nazi style genocide of Muslims.

Tom Mann Centuria

Salford Red Devil's Rugby League team are letting people in for free to their Super League game on Friday, well they are asking people to make donation to victims of Manchester terrorist attack instead, which is a nice touch I think.

wonderfullife

jackofalltrades wrote: »

For a violent act to be considered terrorism there has to be a political aim behind it.

Ok so you're sticking to your original statement that Andreas Lubitz simply committed suicide and hiding behind a dictionary definition?

For the record, we don't know why he did it.

He's a mass-murderer and saying he merely committed "an act of suicide" is a disgrace.

It was no more suicide than Abedi was. Both stone cold mass-murderers.

BalcombeSt4

jackofalltrades wrote: »

For a violent act to be considered terrorism there has to be a political aim behind it.

Was he not carrying out the attack in the name of the Islamic State that he believes he's a citizen of?

Not_A_Racist

Final Solution refers to Hitler, final solution, without capitals, doesn't.

The phrase does tend to be used provocatively.

However, 'final solution' as a term does make sense. A solution is final if it is the last thing attempted and it works. Solutions which don't work, and which therefore aren't final solutions, are hardly solutions at all as they don't work.

So, holding hands for example, or waving a flag, or lighting up a building can never be final solutions as they're ineffective.


Having multiple cultures obviously means that there may be cultures you don't agree with or approve of. That's what we're being asked to live with.

wonderfullife

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Is this post for real?!? Murdering kids at a pop concert is people expressing themselves?!

What Abedi did is no more an expression of Muslim culture than Breivik's mass murder was an expression of white culture.

And well done completely butchering the intent of his post out of context.

conorhal

Help!!!! wrote: »

Unfortunately theres people on here who think they are actually " Lone Wolves " & that family/friends/community would report them to the police if they knew.

Just breaking, his father and younger brother have been arrested and his other brother has been detained in Libya, suspected links to IS.
So the apple didn't fall far from the tree...

Also of note, I've heard 16 individuals associated with the mosque he attended and which his father often spoke have gone to fight in Syria, and I'm guessing it wasn't for Assad.
This isn't 'one bad apple', the barrel is rotten.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

wonderfullife wrote: »

What Abedi did is no more an expression of Muslim culture than Breivik's mass murder was an expression of white culture.

And well done completely butchering the intent of his post out of context.

I don't appreciate the aggressive tones you use replying to my posts so I'd suggest if you've problems with them, report them.

Peregrine

Closed for review.

Peregrine

macomo/cka_b permanently banned for trolling.

Hillary For President banned for being sad and re-regging for the umpeenth time.

Not_A_Racist for a day for trolling.

And Help!!! banned for this gem.

A lot of posts deleted.

Hank Scorpio

conorhal wrote: »

Just breaking, his father and younger brother have been arrested and his other brother has been detained in Libya, suspected links to IS.
So the apple didn't fall far from the tree...

Also of note, I've heard 16 individuals associated with the mosque he attended and which his father often spoke have gone to fight in Syria, and I'm guessing it wasn't for Assad.
This isn't 'one bad apple', the barrel is rotten.

Perfect explanation for that, they must all have mental illness too.

Next.

Snake Plisken

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Perfect explanation for that, they must all have mental illness too.

Next.

The family knew what was going to happen and fled the !
As for the Mosque it should be bulldozed to the ground and anyone who entered there should be put on a watch list!

Outlaw Pete

wonderfullife wrote: »

Very easy to have a go at people who don't believe Islam is at fault and who believe it's twisted people using twisted rationale loosely based on religion.

"Loosely based on religion" lol. Wake up ffs.

Watch the following and actually LISTEN (go to the 5 minute mark if you haven't got time for the whole video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxVIg4nLebc

sjb25

You know what really grinds my gears watching Sky news and the police and security service can no almost everything about this chap all his family and his little network of nut jobs more or less a day to late basically like WTF they obviously had intelligence on all these before it happened

kopite386

sjb25 wrote: »

You know what really grinds my gears watching Sky news and the police and security service can no almost everything about this chap all his family and his little network of nut jobs more or less a day to late basically like WTF they obviously had intelligence on all these before it happened

Yeah I read that he was on a watch list but the time ran out as he hasn't show any intent to commit a crime or something along those lines.
As people​ have said before he was able to leave for Libya and when he came back he should have been arrested but I think they weren't watching him anymore so didn't know he went to Libya
Also as Sky News said I think the police are investigating how he came back 2 days before he committed the attack and got a bomb, it seems they are trying to work out whether he built the bomb or got it off someone else and if the latter who was the person

lillycakes2

The media are ignoring A Terrorist basically said on twitter at 18:28 the night of the concert that the Manchester Arena would be attacked , lots of time for police to react...........but nobody did anything !! There are plenty of armed police /military walking around the Arena currently ! But where were the night of the concert after the threat was made on Twitter?? It annoys me people are saying bags were not being checked and i have been at many concerts where i dont see bags being checked anymore going to these events! why doesn't Europe realize we are at War and act , Terrorists are attacking us ! yes we need to live our lives and not live in fear, but this would be easier if our governments made us feel safer and acted .............

You would imagine security would have been heightened and made "critical" after the Westminster attack !

Atoms for Peace

This is how the Quran describes what should be done to those who don't believe in the one true god:

"And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful torment to those who disbelieve. Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al-Mattaqun (the pious - see V.2:2). Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush."

So ironically when those on the loony left get their wish of open borders and multi culturalism they'll be first against the wall, while Catholics and jews will be spared due to their status of people of the book.

Fratton Fred

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

The west supported these radical Islam groups to fight the more secular nationalist regimes in the region, thats how.

So what conclusions can we draw from this?

Atoms for Peace

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

This is how the Quran describes what should be done to those who don't believe in the one true god:



So ironically when those on the loony left get their wish of open borders and multi culturalism they'll be first against the wall, while Catholics and jews will be spared due to their status of people of the book.

You do know the Bible calls on people to murder non believers also?

Most don't take it literally. Some do.
Some Muslim's take it literally, most do not

GritBiscuit

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

So ironically when those on the loony left get their wish of open borders and multi culturalism they'll be first against the wall, while Catholics and jews will be spared due to their status of people of the book.

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Luke 19:27:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Matthew 10:34:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Crazy holy books be crazy...

ilkhanid

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yeah total "lone wolf" this Breivik......

And yeah, when you refuse to call them terrorist scum by using eupehmisms like "lone wolf" you are taking away from the horror of the murders.

Salman Abedi is a terrorist piece of scum. Breivik and Lubitz too.

No. Breivik could be considered a terrorist but there is no evidence Lubitz had any political motive. Killing a lot of people doesn't make one a terrorist, else Klebold and Harris, or Jim Jones, Adam Lanza or Charles Whitman would be terrorists.

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ok so you're sticking to your original statement that Andreas Lubitz simply committed suicide and hiding behind a dictionary definition?For the record, we don't know why he did it.
He's a mass-murderer and saying he merely committed "an act of suicide" is a disgrace.
It was no more suicide than Abedi was. Both stone cold mass-murderers.

That is correct, both are mass-murderers but a terrorist is one specific type of mass-murderer.

bubblypop wrote: »

You do know the Bible calls on people to murder non believers also?
Most don't take it literally. Some do.
Some Muslim's take it literally, most do not

It's not a matter of some do, some don't. no institutional Christian Church calls for these things any more (outside of loons in Alabama, Oklahoma and Tennessee.

Beyondgone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So what conclusions can we draw from this?

We're all fcuked.

Basically.

We have Political Leaders who won't mention the "I" word(Islam), Political Leaders who bend over backwards to favour Islamic Economic Immigrants over the Indigenous population, a Police force(Europe-wide) who are terrified of being branded "Racist" and anyone who dares mention the "I" word (Islam) is branded a Racist, derided as a dinosaur, and pilloried as a Fascist. This is the beginning of the "Fcuked", much like the beginning of the last economic crash, where Rationalists were told to "go commit suicide" for expressing doubts/fears - by our then Political leader. Sit back, watch it burn. It's Non-PC to do otherwise.

sjb25

GritBiscuit wrote: »

Crazy holy books be crazy...

Religion be crazy of all donimations

If people stopped believe in magic dust from the sky we would be better of

gitzy16v

When has the last Christian extremist killed people for being non- believers?
When has the last Christian extremist blown themselves up in the name of god?
When has the last Christian extremist committed mass murder?

A few in Africa I could think of but not as regular as Islamic extremists doing the same.
Not even close.
Extremists of all sorts are despicable,the Islamic ones seem a whole lot more regular these days.
Maybe it's just me though.

Wouldn't it be great if it was possible for Islam to create a new testament or something like that.
Some kind of reform.

conorhal

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

This is how the Quran describes what should be done to those who don't believe in the one true god:

"And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful torment to those who disbelieve. Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al-Mattaqun (the pious - see V.2:2). Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush."

So ironically when those on the loony left get their wish of open borders and multi culturalism they'll be first against the wall, while Catholics and jews will be spared due to their status of people of the book.

I've tried reading the Quran, after all, can you really criticize something without actually reading and understanding it?

I only read about a third of it, it was not 'beautiful literature' it's perfunctory literature and the passage above is not atypical. One thing that really stuck out and bothered me was the fact that you could not go more then a couple of pages without it banging on about the terrible fates that await the unbeliever. It was constant. The neurotic ramblings of an authoritarian warlord.
People crib about the bible but it has some great stories, not the Quran, it's just wall to wall 'death to the infidel!' Actually a depressing read. I've read the bible too and it doesn't even mention hell very often.

Yeah the Christians and Jews might survive Islam (probably not Jews though, it spends a LOT of time suggesting other fates for them) But as Christians learned in 'enlightened Islamic Europe' in places like Spain under the Moors, you'll be paying a tax for not being of the faith, oh, and your word in court counts for a third of that of a Muslims and woe betide you if you build your house taller than your Muslim neighbour because that's illegal.....

ceadaoin.

lillycakes2 wrote: »

The media are ignoring A Terrorist basically said on twitter at 18:28 the night of the concert that the Manchester Arena would be attacked , lots of time for police to react...........but nobody did anything !!

No that was tweeted after the attack. If you look at the pic, the date format is in the American style - 5/22/17 indicating that whoever made the screenshot was in the US.. So it was at least 11.28pm UK time. At least that's what I read the other day anyway

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you don't want to look at why a native Briton would do something like this then you are part of the problem. Because you have no solutions other than rounding up potential psychopaths. It will continue to happen.
How else are you going to stop it? By condemnation? :rolleyes:

To my original point, like you, the people of Britain are not ready to look rationally at the root cause of the problem (whatever they may be, I am only speculating).
At least Corbyn is offering an alternative to exacerbating the problem. Perhaps it will take 30 or 40 years for them to see it and act, sadly.. We Irish have bitter and tragic experience of that, discussing and debating it publicly is a healthy thing imo.

The root cause of the problem (like nearly all terrorist problems) is misguided/deluded/psychopathic/brainwashed people (delete as appropriate for this particular character) who follow a nonsensical religious or nationalist ideology.

On the one hand you say you are speculating what the problem might be, on the other you insinuate that somehow the British people brought this on themselves.

Quite simply, neither the British people nor the British government bear any responsibility for madmen that want to tear down Western democratic society.

pumpkin4life

Beyondgone wrote: »

We're all fcuked.

Basically.

We have Political Leaders who won't mention the "I" word(Islam), Political Leaders who bend over backwards to favour Islamic Economic Immigrants over the Indigenous population, a Police force(Europe-wide) who are terrified of being branded "Racist" and anyone who dares mention the "I" word (Islam) is branded a Racist, derided as a dinosaur, and pilloried as a Fascist. This is the beginning of the "Fcuked", much like the beginning of the last economic crash, where Rationalists were told to "go commit suicide" for expressing doubts/fears - by our then Political leader. Sit back, watch it burn. It's Non-PC to do otherwise.

In a sense, it's not Islam that's the problem. What we're seeing is the symptom, rather than the disease itself.

I'm more worried about the liberal arts university professors, the journalists, the politicians who advocate this nonsense.

mikeybrennan

sjb25 wrote: »

You know what really grinds my gears watching Sky news and the police and security service can no almost everything about this chap all his family and his little network of nut jobs more or less a day to late basically like WTF they obviously had intelligence on all these before it happened

It looks like an 'intelligence' failure in this case

On the face of it anyway

mikeybrennan

blanch152 wrote: »

The root cause of the problem (like nearly all terrorist problems) is misguided/deluded/psychopathic/brainwashed people (delete as appropriate for this particular character) who follow a nonsensical religious or nationalist ideology.

On the one hand you say you are speculating what the problem might be, on the other you insinuate that somehow the British people brought this on themselves.

Quite simply, neither the British people nor the British government bear any responsibility for madmen that want to tear down Western democratic society.

That's not fully true

There is plenty of evidence that coalition air-strikes are directly responsible for radicalization in the affected areas.

This evidence has even come from the coalition side