Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

RugbyLover123

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Prediction for 6N squad, the players likely to be cut after the first week are marked with ( - )
1. Healy/McGrath/ - Kilcoyne
2. Best/Cronin/*McCartney
3. Furlong/Archer/Porter
4. Henderson/Dillane/ - Holland
5. Toner/J Ryan/ - Roux
6. O'Mahony/Leavy/ - O'Donoghue
7. O'Brien/Van der Flier/ - Reidy
8. Stander/Conan/ - Deegan
9. Murray/Cooney/Marmion
10. Sexton/Keatley/ - Byrne
11. Stockdale/Earls/ - Healy
12. Aki/McCloskey/ - T Farrell
13. Henshaw/C Farrell/ - Ringrose
14. Conway/McFadden/ - Gilroy
15. Kearney/O'Halloran/ - Larmour

*Wishful thinking, probably Herring or Tracy.

Granted I don't watch Munster too often and he's just back from injury but anytime I have watched them Oliver seems to be a better player than O'Donoghue for me. O'Donoghue has never particularly impressed me compared to Leavy, VDF, Oliver, Deegan even SOB at Connacht who are all back rowers of similar age.

The Lost Sheep

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Granted I don't watch Munster too often and he's just back from injury but anytime I have watched them Oliver seems to be a better player than O'Donoghue for me. O'Donoghue has never particularly impressed me compared to Leavy, VDF, Oliver, Deegan even SOB at Connacht who are all back rowers of similar age.

never?
I have him up there with all of them. He has been unlucky to have O Mahony/Stander and had injuries but is certainly as good as those guys. Having to play 7 which isnt at all his position - more a 6/8 - hasnt helped him.

Tigerandahalf

I think Ringrose will struggle to be involved.
He has looked shaky defensively and falls off tackles.

Bundee and Henshaw is a formidable partnership. Having played together at Connacht is a big advantage.

If Sexton gets injured I'd worry about the backup.

Leavy has had a great run and can cover 6/7 so very possible for him to be involved.

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

Of the back 3 Conway is in great form. He has made huge progress over the last year.

Earls is too dodgy for me. He has never convinced me. Stockdale looks likely at 11.

R Kearney may be fullback so only 14 to fill. Earls/Conway. Disappointed not to see more of Sweetnam.

Faugheen

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Prediction for 6N squad, the players likely to be cut after the first week are marked with ( - )
1. Healy/McGrath/ - Kilcoyne
2. Best/Cronin/*McCartney
3. Furlong/Archer/Porter
4. Henderson/Dillane/ - Holland
5. Toner/J Ryan/ - Roux
6. O'Mahony/Leavy/ - O'Donoghue
7. O'Brien/Van der Flier/ - Reidy
8. Stander/Conan/ - Deegan
9. Murray/Cooney/Marmion
10. Sexton/Keatley/ - Byrne
11. Stockdale/Earls/ - Healy
12. Aki/McCloskey/ - T Farrell
13. Henshaw/C Farrell/ - Ringrose
14. Conway/McFadden/ - Gilroy
15. Kearney/O'Halloran/ - Larmour

*Wishful thinking, probably Herring or Tracy.

Luke McGrath is definitely ahead of Cooney and probably Marmion too.

The Lost Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Ringrose will struggle to be involved.
He has looked shaky defensively and falls off tackles.

Bundee and Henshaw is a formidable partnership. Having played together at Connacht is a big advantage.

If Sexton gets injured I'd worry about the backup.

Leavy has had a great run and can cover 6/7 so very possible for him to be involved.

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

Of the back 3 Conway is in great form. He has made huge progress over the last year.

Earls is too dodgy for me. He has never convinced me. Stockdale looks likely at 11.

R Kearney may be fullback so only 14 to fill. Earls/Conway. Disappointed not to see more of Sweetnam.

Id agree in part but seriously earls dodgy? Never convinced you how? 4th most tries for Ireland for one.
Henderson has been disappointing but how many others to be ahead of him?

stl.ire

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

With Ulster’s lack of ball carriers Henderson has had a huge target on his back. He has had double tackles on him as soon as he gets the ball over the last 3 weeks. The difference in his ball carrying in a green shirt compared to a white one is huge.

MJohnston

Yeah, don't judge the Ulster players based on their performances for Ulster (though perhaps Joe has to) - there's a clear morale problem affecting everyone there, plus individuals just can't get the freedom to play at their best level because of weaknesses elsewhere in the team.

baas baa

I'd have Leavy on the bench, he's swung a lot of big games coming on for Leinster. A menace at the breakdown against tired bodies and likewise in attack is excellent at exploiting slack defence around the fringes.

bilston

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Ringrose will struggle to be involved.
He has looked shaky defensively and falls off tackles.

Bundee and Henshaw is a formidable partnership. Having played together at Connacht is a big advantage.

If Sexton gets injured I'd worry about the backup.

Leavy has had a great run and can cover 6/7 so very possible for him to be involved.

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

Of the back 3 Conway is in great form. He has made huge progress over the last year.

Earls is too dodgy for me. He has never convinced me. Stockdale looks likely at 11.

R Kearney may be fullback so only 14 to fill. Earls/Conway. Disappointed not to see more of Sweetnam.

When judging Henderson in an Ireland context I'd focus on his rampaging performance against SA more than him playing 6 for Ulster or playing second row on occasion in a pack that is getting beaten up by all comers.

Tigerandahalf

bilston wrote: »

When judging Henderson in an Ireland context I'd focus on his rampaging performance against SA more than him playing 6 for Ulster or playing second row on occasion in a pack that is getting beaten up by all comers.

Re Henderson - that is the problem. He produces one or 2 big performances and then goes to sleep for long periods in games. He was very quiet last night. The same pattern happened before when he got dropped after a poor outing against Scotland. For me his work rate has to improve. He struggles to get around the park. Then again Ulster haven't helped him by picking him at 6.

Re Earls I just think defensively his decision making has always been an issue. Even in last night's game John Broderick highlighted how he needlessly broke the line shooting up and almost allowing Connacht to get a try in the early stages of the game.

Many of his tries have just been walk ins. His pace is his biggest asset.
I think Conway's overall game is better than his now. Conway is now superb in the air - something Joe loves in a winger.

Anyway we have a fine squad heading into the 6
Nations.

Jump_In_Jack

Reckon the team picks itself, but the bench will be
16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Archer, 19. Dillane, 20. Leavy, 21. Cooney, 22. Keatley, 23. Earls.

Perhaps Kilcoyne would be a better impact sub than McGrath, and Marmion possibly could up the tempo more than Cooney if coming on with 10 to go and need a try.

Burkie1203

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Reckon the team picks itself, but the bench will be
16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Archer, 19. Dillane, 20. Leavy, 21. Cooney, 22. Keatley, 23. Earls.

Perhaps Kilcoyne would be a better impact sub than McGrath, and Marmion possibly could up the tempo more than Cooney if coming on with 10 to go and need a try.

Archer? I woyld guess Ryan, Porter and bealham are ahead of him

Marmion still our backup 9 IMO.

What I think we will see (injury permitting)
Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, SoB, Stander
Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Ryan, Dillane, Leavy, Marmion, Carbery, Conway

Bazzo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Archer? I woyld guess Ryan, Porter and bealham are ahead of him

Marmion still our backup 9 IMO.

What I think we will see (injury permitting)
Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, SoB, Stander
Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Ryan, Dillane, Leavy, Marmion, Carbery, Conway

Archer seems to be preferred to Ryan at Munster at the minute. Bealham is playing well and if Ryan has fallen behind I'd have him ahead of Archer personally but who knows.

Interested Observer

Bazzo wrote: »

Archer seems to be preferred to Ryan at Munster at the minute. Bealham is playing well and if Ryan has fallen behind I'd have him ahead of Archer personally but who knows.

Ryan and Kilcoyne got roasted in the scrum for large parts of it last night. Not very encouraging of they're our sub props.

Jump_In_Jack

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Archer? I woyld guess Ryan, Porter and bealham are ahead of him

Marmion still our backup 9 IMO.

What I think we will see (injury permitting)
Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, SoB, Stander
Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Ryan, Dillane, Leavy, Marmion, Carbery, Conway

Archer is starting all the big matches for Munster all this season, he has been impressive, keeping ahead of Ryan.
Bealham and Porter haven't shown anywhere near the level of consistency this season.

Which of Conway and Earls to start is a close call. I think Conway is in better form recently, for example the line he ran off Keatley to set up Earls with a walk in try last night.

Carbery shouldn't be involved at all. Hasn't been playing 10 all season, and has been injured a lot in the last year.
Would rather see him give some performances at 10 for Leinster while Sexton is with Ireland.
Keatley has been playing well this season and has earned his place ahead of Carbery.
If anything, Carty and Byrne are both ahead of Carbery now, both playing very well this season with a lot of game time under the belt.

Buer

I expect Carbery to be wearing 22 due to the flexibility he brings to the bench similar to the spell where Madigan was 22 and Schmidt stated that despite that Jackson would start if Sexton wasn't fit.

Interested Observer

Keatley's at his ceiling, he's been average to decent this season, but he's not really good enough for international rugby (imo he's not really good enough to be starting for a team like Munster either) so I'd really hope Ross Byrne has overtaken him. Carbery is still a few weeks away so don't think he'll make the squad.

Burkie1203

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Archer is starting all the big matches for Munster all this season, he has been impressive, keeping ahead of Ryan.
Bealham and Porter haven't shown anywhere near the level of consistency this season.

Which of Conway and Ealrs to start is a close call. I think Conway is in better form recently, for example the line he ran off Keatley to set up Earls with a walk in try last night.

Carbery shouldn't be involved at all. Hasn't been playing 10 all season, and has been injured a lot in the last year.
Would rather see him give some performances at 10 for Leinster while Sexton is with Ireland.
Keatley has been playing well this season and has earned his place ahead of Carbery.
If anything, Carty and Byrne are both ahead of Carbery now, both playing very well this season with a lot of game time under the belt.

Bazzo wrote: »

Archer seems to be preferred to Ryan at Munster at the minute. Bealham is playing well and if Ryan has fallen behind I'd have him ahead of Archer personally but who knows.

Mike Ross was dropped by MOC at Leinster a few years ago and Ireland won the 6n with him starting every game. Ryan, Porter and Bealham all have time in camp the last few years. Has Archer ever been called up by Joe?

Earls will be wearing 14. Conway I think is seen as the ideal 23. Can cover back 3 with no need for reshuffled backline.

I think Keatley should be in the 22 shirt. What i posted was what I think we will see. Not necessarily what I think it should be.

Tigerandahalf

Interested Observer wrote: »

Ryan and Kilcoyne got roasted in the scrum for large parts of it last night. Not very encouraging of they're our sub props.

We are not very strong at LH. Outside of McGrath all the others have doubts about their scrummaging. Healy is a penalty machine as well and always likely to pick up a yellow or do something stupid.

Interested Observer

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

We are not very strong at LH. Outside of McGrath all the others have doubts about their scrummaging. Healy is a penalty machine as well and always likely to pick up a yellow or do something stupid.

Healy is going to make the 23, and he's probably going to start.

Jump_In_Jack

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Mike Ross was dropped by MOC at Leinster a few years ago and Ireland won the 6n with him starting every game. Ryan, Porter and Bealham all have time in camp the last few years. Has Archer ever been called up by Joe?

Earls will be wearing 14. Conway I think is seen as the ideal 23. Can cover back 3 with no need for reshuffled backline.

I think Keatley should be in the 22 shirt. What i posted was what I think we will see. Not necessarily what I think it should be.

Archer has earned a call up, whether he has been before or not, he should be called up, and given the chance to learn whatever Schmidt will demand from him.

Perhaps Bealham is deserving of a call up also, but I haven't been impressed by him this season. Maybe some Connacht fans could give an appraisal of his form.
Porter is behind Bent at Leinster, so perhaps Bent is an outside bet for a call up to the wider squad.

The point you made about Conway -Earls covers more positions.
Conway is also in better form.

Jump_In_Jack

Buer wrote: »

I expect Carbery to be wearing 22 due to the flexibility he brings to the bench similar to the spell where Madigan was 22 and Schmidt stated that despite that Jackson would start if Sexton wasn't fit.

Do you mean flexibility in that he can switch to fullback?
It does give the option of naming McCloskey or Farrell at 23 in that case, but I wouldn't see that as the preferred option.
Keatley can play 10, 12 and 15, so offers more flexibility, and would combine well with Earls covering 11, 13, and 14.

That's aside from the point that Keatley has been playing well for about 12 months now, getting regular game time, kicking penalties, and controlling the game, whereas Carbery is now essentially a third choice fullback and third choice 10 at Leinster that needs to recover from a wrist injury which will impact his passing.

I hope he doesn't get a call up and instead works on getting some time at 10 at Leinster.

irishbucsfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Do you mean flexibility in that he can switch to fullback?
It does give the option of naming McCloskey or Farrell at 23 in that case, but I wouldn't see that as the preferred option.
Keatley can play 10, 12 and 15, so offers more flexibility, and would combine well with Earls covering 11, 13, and 14.

That's aside from the point that Keatley has been playing well for about 12 months now, getting regular game time, kicking penalties, and controlling the game, whereas Carbery is now essentially a third choice fullback and third choice 10 at Leinster that needs to recover from a wrist injury which will impact his passing.

I hope he doesn't get a call up and instead works on getting some time at 10 at Leinster.

Keatleys recent form has been far worse than where it was before.

Buer

Keatley has played elsewhere but not in a long time and certainly won't be considered for cover elsewhere at test level. He's going well but not to a level where he's demanding inclusion in a 6N 23.

If Carbery gets himself fit and available, I'd expect him to be there. He said himself this week he's aiming to be back for the last European pool game.

Personally, I don't hugely rate him at a 10 yet but he was the back up in November and last summer. I don't think 6-8 weeks out will have changed that.

homecouldbhere

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

That's aside from the point that Keatley has been playing well for about 12 months now, getting regular game time, kicking penalties, and controlling the game

He what now???
Keatley is a significant distance away from being an international 10.
If he makes any appearance in the 6ns then it truly highlights how bereft we are of decent out halves.
I'd rather Byrne at 22 myself.

Edit: or better again Carbery if he's back in time.

Jump_In_Jack

homecouldbhere wrote: »

He what now???
Keatley is a significant distance away from being an international 10.
If he makes any appearance in the 6ns then it truly highlights how bereft we are of decent out halves.
I'd rather Byrne at 22 myself.

Edit: or better again Carbery if he's back in time.

Carbery has zero game time at 10 this season, and in terms of controlling the game he has given no evidence to date that he can do that at Pro14 level, let alone 6nations level.

Keatley at least has shown a consistent level of performance and Munster are playing well in the backs with him controlling things, for example the pass to put Conway through the centre last night, Keatley picked a good line and drew the tackle and made the offload accurately to meet Conway at full tilt to create the try.
There were a couple of good kicks to gain territory also.
I'd certainly back Keatley to play no.22 in the 6nations ahead of any other options right now.

homecouldbhere

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Carbery has zero game time at 10 this season, and in terms of controlling the game he has given no evidence to date that he can do that at Pro14 level, let alone 6nations level.

Keatley at least has shown a consistent level of performance and Munster are playing well in the backs with him controlling things, for example the pass to put Conway through the centre last night, Keatley picked a good line and drew the tackle and made the offload accurately to meet Conway at full tilt to create the try.
There were a couple of good kicks to gain territory also.
I'd certainly back Keatley to play no.22 in the 6nations ahead of any other options right now.

The ultra fcuk ups that Keatley has proven himself randomly capable of this season are too substantial to ignore for me I'm afraid.
He strikes me as a guy who is forever wrestling with his own confidence and the end product is an inconsistent performer.
No Irish jersey for him please.

Interested Observer

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

whereas Carbery is now essentially a third choice fullback and third choice 10 at Leinster

Sounds like some fairly wishful thinking on your part. He's been injured. He was absolutely excellent for Leinster up to that point, and he was ahead of Keatley in the eyes of the Irish coaches considering he was getting picked to bench and start in the AIs. The only thing that will see Keatley ahead of him is his injury.

Bazzo

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Archer is starting all the big matches for Munster all this season, he has been impressive, keeping ahead of Ryan.
Bealham and Porter haven't shown anywhere near the level of consistency this season.

Not sure where you're getting that about Bealham? He rarely let's the side down, been in great form recently and he's regularly dominant in the scrum.

Tigerandahalf

I think Keatley is best back up for now.
No way you could go with Carberry as he can't goalkick. Maybe Joe will include him but if Sexton was out for a game Keatley would come in.

He is inconsistent but at least has experience.

Luke McGrath is amother who has improved over the autumn. Big competition there now.

Maybe Cooney in reserve with Carberry with Cooney kicking is an option.