DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

positron

I have been wondering about this too, and I totally agree wjth Ariana that I don't regret doing DCM at all, on the contrary, I am still feeling pretty chuffed about it  but I am not very clear on what's next.

Ideally I want to stay 'marathon fit', if that even makes sense. Two weeks from DCM I already did a slow half and it went okay. And I am used to weekly half marathon distance LSRs over August to October. So is it a fair assumption that if I keep running a half every Saturday (easier said than done) that will keep me kinda ready for a marathon on short (4-6 weeks) notice? Here I am talking about getting to the finish line, rather than racing it..!

Next question is how do I go about increasing speed while staying at this level? Since starting C25k some 18 months ago, I have been reading and repeating the manthra "To run faster, you need to run longer; and for that you need to run slower". That got me to DCM finish line, very slowly.  Now I have seen comments about dedicated 5k plans, 10k plans etc with certain time in mind, and they all seem to feature a long run on Saturday. Is it simple enough to follow them and stick to a 21.1k LSR every week?

Sorry for the wall of text!

The Muppet

I'd recommend following a dedicated plan to improve speed.
Usually when the graduate thread starts up there is a plan attached . I have used this a few years and found it excellent .

I'm guessing there will be similar this year but if not previous years plans are in the relevant graduate threads

Baby75

anyone else having niggles popping up all over the place :eek:

Sorted out my foot sorted out my tight hamstring and walking not even running my soleus on my left leg felt a little tight stretched foam rolled it felt good went for my longest run yesterday which I enjoyed but when I finished leg was quite sore it has eased off and is much better today still tender. It is the exact same thing that happened in training just before the Half marathon but the right leg, so I know it will be fine in a day or two, I know what to do now LOL just a little frustrating as I feel great I have noticed a slight improvement in speed So I am looking forward to having no more niggles and running pain free soon please!

positron I feel the exact same, I like being able to run longer distances and want to keep my LSR as around the 20k mark but work on speed and running form

I will be looking forward to the graduate thread and I am off to find the older one's Thanks, The Muppet

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

anyone else having niggles popping up all over the place :eek:

Sorted out my foot sorted out my tight hamstring and walking not even running my soleus on my left leg felt a little tight stretched foam rolled it felt good went for my longest run yesterday which I enjoyed but when I finished leg was quite sore it has eased off and is much better today still tender. It is the exact same thing that happened in training just before the Half marathon but the right leg, so I know it will be fine in a day or two, I know what to do now LOL just a little frustrating as I feel great I have noticed a slight improvement in speed So I am looking forward to having no more niggles and running pain free soon please!

positron I feel the exact same, I like being able to run longer distances and want to keep my LSR as around the 20k mark but work on speed and running form

I will be looking forward to the graduate thread and I am off to find the older one's Thanks, The Muppet

Maybe the niggles are a sign that your body is still recovering. As long as they stay as just niggles and don't develop. My knee is much better since the deep tissue work last week but i know from the foam roller than my legs in general are still ropey. I'll be keeping volume and effort light for a while yet. It's nice timing really with Christmas and all the silly season festivities. January 1st will be the perfect time to start a fresh plan

I did my first s&c session in the gym yesterday, my butt is sore today

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

Maybe the niggles are a sign that your body is still recovering. As long as they stay as just niggles and don't develop. My knee is much better since the deep tissue work last week but i know from the foam roller than my legs in general are still ropey. I'll be keeping volume and effort light for a while yet. It's nice timing really with Christmas and all the silly season festivities. January 1st will be the perfect time to start a fresh plan

I did my first s&c session in the gym yesterday, my butt is sore today

True Ariana, I am thinking it will be January before I start working on speed and a new plan like you I am working on S&C Foam roller and I have a date later LOL I will go back to physio if I need to get him to knock out all the knots in my muscles

BeepBeep67

The majority of runners can follow an all year round plan and then add a few tweaks depending on your focus.

1. Run as many days per week than you can / time allows / body can handle.
2. Incorporate a long run of some description, that could 12-13 miles outside of marathon training and up to 20-22 when training for the marathon.
3. Include 1 session between HM pace and MP, steady tempo, can be in a single block or split (3 x 10min, 2 x 15min, 1 x 30min, etc).
4. Include 1 session between 5k and 10k pace, typically intervals, between 3 - 6 miles of effort (8 x 600, 6 x 800, 6 x 1k, 6 x 1m, etc).
5. Add a few strides, short hill bursts, recovery runs and a bit of core.

Make 2-4 progressive over your training cycle to get fitter (more miles, more reps, *faster reps, shorter recovery).
* Best to err on the side of current fitness rather than target fitness.

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

anyone else having niggles popping up all over the place :eek:

Sorted out my foot sorted out my tight hamstring and walking not even running my soleus on my left leg felt a little tight stretched foam rolled it felt good went for my longest run yesterday which I enjoyed but when I finished leg was quite sore it has eased off and is much better today still tender. It is the exact same thing that happened in training just before the Half marathon but the right leg, so I know it will be fine in a day or two, I know what to do now LOL just a little frustrating as I feel great I have noticed a slight improvement in speed So I am looking forward to having no more niggles and running pain free soon please!

positron I feel the exact same, I like being able to run longer distances and want to keep my LSR as around the 20k mark but work on speed and running form

I will be looking forward to the graduate thread and I am off to find the older one's Thanks, The Muppet

I remind myself of that person in old horror story books lying awake in bed in a vast old house listening to creaks and groans all around the building and terrified of every single one. The only difference is it's my legs that are doing the creaking. I swear to the almighty that just sitting relaxing on the couch I can feel twinges from a muscle for a second or two.....then it moves somewhere else, calf, hamstring, ankle, shin, knee...Whoever invented taper madness mustn't have tried recovery madness. I'm finding it much worse! :eek::pac:

Baby75

skyblue46 wrote: »

I remind myself of that person in old horror story books lying awake in bed in a vast old house listening to creaks and groans all around the building and terrified of every single one. The only difference is it's my legs that are doing the creaking. I swear to the almighty that just sitting relaxing on the couch I can feel twinges from a muscle for a second or two.....then it moves somewhere else, calf, hamstring, ankle, shin, knee...Whoever invented taper madness mustn't have tried recovery madness. I'm finding it much worse! :eek::pac:

So glad I am not alone Soon just soon all will be back to normal

clickerquicklic

Re. Strength and conditioning I've started doing some body weight exercises press ups/ sit ups / planks and pull ups . Do these every other day , had to skip tonight's because muscles are too sore but its good to work the core and upper body and not just the legs.

Like others I don't want to lose the long run fitness but I'm struggling trying to fit the running in with the bike commuting , I cycle hard enough in and out of work 3 days a week and its hard to run also on these days , might need to drop some days biking and run commute instead.

clickerquicklic

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

The majority of runners can follow an all year round plan and then add a few tweaks depending on your focus.

1. Run as many days per week than you can / time allows / body can handle.
2. Incorporate a long run of some description, that could 12-13 miles outside of marathon training and up to 20-22 when training for the marathon.
3. Include 1 session between HM pace and MP, steady tempo, can be in a single block or split (3 x 10min, 2 x 15min, 1 x 30min, etc).
4. Include 1 session between 5k and 10k pace, typically intervals, between 3 - 6 miles of effort (8 x 600, 6 x 800, 6 x 1k, 6 x 1m, etc).
5. Add a few strides, short hill bursts, recovery runs and a bit of core.

Make 2-4 progressive over your training cycle to get fitter (more miles, more reps, *faster reps, shorter recovery).
* Best to err on the side of current fitness rather than target fitness.

This is solid advice thanks.
One question I have and can't seem to find the answer online is - how often should we race? I like to turn up to Parkrun each week and don't know anything other than run as fast as I can. At the moment still in marathon recovery so I know that "no racing " is the advice. But in a month or so would a hard parkrun every other week be too much ? What about the weeks you don't run hard what would be best bang for buck , running it at tempo pace or some sort of interval session? Thanks

Battery Kinzie

I've ran a couple of times since the marathon, I think 5 times about 5/10k each time. No issues or niggles thankfully so I could be doing a good bit more by this stage, but I'm just not feeling bothered to do it. Was home today in well enough time to go out, but I wasn't bothered.

Hopefully I'll get the hunger back after a few weeks, but to be honest I had a feeling this would've happened. Even in the last few weeks of marathon training I wasnt enjoying the little 5/10k runs as much as I normally would and the marathon was the only thing that was keeping me going out.

BeepBeep67

clickerquicklic wrote: »

This is solid advice thanks.
One question I have and can't seem to find the answer online is - how often should we race? I like to turn up to Parkrun each week and don't know anything other than run as fast as I can. At the moment still in marathon recovery so I know that "no racing " is the advice. But in a month or so would a hard parkrun every other week be too much ? What about the weeks you don't run hard what would be best bang for buck , running it at tempo pace or some sort of interval session? Thanks

There's no hard and fast rule, but every time you race you are taking money out of the bank and sacrificing training, at some stage you'll be overdrawn and sometimes that comes with high interest charges!

You race your parkrun the 1st Sat of every month for example, that will in turn provide you with some feedback on whether your training is working or not.

On the other weeks, add it as part of your long run, add it as a MP portion at the end of a long run, use it as a tempo effort, offer to pace (I would advise pacing at least 20 seconds per k slower than what you can run.

Swashbuckler

clickerquicklic wrote:

This is solid advice thanks. One question I have and can't seem to find the answer online is - how often should we race? I like to turn up to Parkrun each week and don't know anything other than run as fast as I can. At the moment still in marathon recovery so I know that "no racing " is the advice. But in a month or so would a hard parkrun every other week be too much ? What about the weeks you don't run hard what would be best bang for buck , running it at tempo pace or some sort of interval session? Thanks

If you look at any training plans you'll see that none of them have a race every week. But in saying that, maybe you're not interested in another block of specific training right now. There's nothing wrong with taking a chunk of time to just enjoy running, racing some parkruns, keeping up some tempo and long runs every week. Sometimes it's just nice to "train as you like".

When the time comes and you have a target race in mind then maybe start a race specific block.

But just be aware as beep beep said every time you race you're withdrawing from the tank.

muddypaws

I either need to give up running altogether or run more often, did Longford park run this morning, ran at the same kind of pace I would have done pre marathon, nothing spectacular, got round in 31 minutes, I was struggling all the way and my legs are in bits, I can't even touch my toes!

Spirogyra

It takes a lot out of you Muddypaws, even if you 'think your ok', your probably not. The body needs time to heal

ariana`

muddypaws wrote: »

I either need to give up running altogether or run more often, did Longford park run this morning, ran at the same kind of pace I would have done pre marathon, nothing spectacular, got round in 31 minutes, I was struggling all the way and my legs are in bits, I can't even touch my toes!

Muddypaws was that your 1st run post-dcm? I did my first run last Monday and found it tough, i didn't even look at the pace but when i did at the end i was disappointed that it was even slower than it felt. I ran again on Tuesday and it felt much better. Just 5k each day but Tuesday the pace was a bit quicker and it just felt easier and more comfortable.

Kellygirl

muddypaws wrote: »

I either need to give up running altogether or run more often, did Longford park run this morning, ran at the same kind of pace I would have done pre marathon, nothing spectacular, got round in 31 minutes, I was struggling all the way and my legs are in bits, I can't even touch my toes!

I think your legs just need to loosen up again a bit. Each run should get easier from here on in.

muddypaws

ariana` wrote: »

Muddypaws was that your 1st run post-dcm? I did my first run last Monday and found it tough, i didn't even look at the pace but when i did at the end i was disappointed that it was even slower than it felt. I ran again on Tuesday and it felt much better. Just 5k each day but Tuesday the pace was a bit quicker and it just felt easier and more comfortable.

I did a very slow parkrun two weeks ago. I've been cycling but not running apart from those two. I'm actually feeling a bit fluey, so hopefully it's that and not my decripit body just giving up

ariana`

muddypaws wrote: »

I did a very slow parkrun two weeks ago. I've been cycling but not running apart from those two. I'm actually feeling a bit fluey, so hopefully it's that and not my decripit body just giving up

2 weeks is a long break. I bet if you don't leave it as long again it will feel easier. But right now look after yourself if you're feeling unwell x

Baby75

Evening all

I have been reading last years DCM graduate thread just wondering when one for this year will begin, the plans look great, I like the 5 to 10 km but I think I need a better watch to plan out the tempo runs etc or how else would you do them my TomTom is very basic

Muddypaws how are you feeling now, I bet if you get out again you will feel much better

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

Evening all

I have been reading last years DCM graduate thread just wondering when one for this year will begin, the plans look great, I like the 5 to 10 km but I think I need a better watch to plan out the tempo runs etc or how else would you do them my TomTom is very basic

Muddypaws how are you feeling now, I bet if you get out again you will feel much better

Was looking at the graduate thread myself. I noticed that The Muppet started it and he was one of that years Novices. WW and his crew got the job done and deserve their freedom from the curse of this years Novices thread. I'd say it's up to one of our group to create the graduate thread and send out the death notice for this one. Nudge nudge Baby

Baby75

skyblue46 wrote: »

Was looking at the graduate thread myself. I noticed that The Muppet started it and he was one of that years Novices. WW and his crew got the job done and deserve their freedom from the curse of this years Novices thread. I'd say it's up to one of our group to create the graduate thread and send out the death notice for this one. Nudge nudge Baby

OOOOH dare I

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

OOOOH dare I

Ooooooh I'd say you'd take on any dare! Get typing there kiddo, The Muppet did a massive intro last year so give yourself a bit of time...:D:pac:

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ooooooh I'd say you'd take on any dare! Get typing there kiddo, The Muppet did a massive intro last year so give yourself a bit of time...:D:pac:

Not to be stepping on toes or anything but I think the tradition goes that the mentored Novice threads mentor nominates a boardsie to guide graduates through the graduates thread. Bungy Girl took the mantle last year with Myles Splitz aka Testosterscone the year before and Clearlier the year before that. Maybe something to work out before getting the tread under way.

skyblue46

El Caballo wrote: »

Not to be stepping on toes or anything but I think the tradition goes that the mentored Novice threads mentor nominates a boardsie to guide graduates through the graduates thread. Bungy Girl took the mantle last year with Myles Splitz aka Testosterscone the year before and Clearlier the year before that. Maybe something to work out before getting the tread under way.

Ah right we'll wait and see then. When I saw The Muppet do the first post last year I just thought he'd taken it upon himself. No toes trodden on

Baby75

El Caballo wrote: »

Not to be stepping on toes or anything but I think the tradition goes that the mentored Novice threads mentor nominates a boardsie to guide graduates through the graduates thread. Bungy Girl took the mantle last year with Myles Splitz aka Testosterscone the year before and Clearlier the year before that. Maybe something to work out before getting the tread under way.

I am happy to wait no toes stepped on here or do I want to be jumping the gun and stepping on any myself

Kellygirl

Baby75 wrote: »

Evening all

I have been reading last years DCM graduate thread just wondering when one for this year will begin, the plans look great, I like the 5 to 10 km but I think I need a better watch to plan out the tempo runs etc or how else would you do them my TomTom is very basic

Muddypaws how are you feeling now, I bet if you get out again you will feel much better

I like the sound of that. I’ve been meaning to research plans and yet to do it!

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

I like the sound of that. I’ve been meaning to research plans and yet to do it!

Ditto to this. I think I'll do Hal Higdons 5 mile plan for Raheny. It'll mean dropping miles and speeding up which I'm looking forward to

scotindublin

For those of you thinking of plans for the future and looking to incorporate different type sessions into your training I have found the Daniels Running Formula book a good resource.

It gives a good understanding of the benefits of different types of sessions and has information on correct pacing for these. I picked it up cheap enough off Amazon (could be an easy Christmas gift aswell).

http://www.humankinetics.com/products/all-products/jack-daniels-running-formula-3rd-edition

Also from my own experience if you are hoping to keep up the running I cannot recommend highly enough joining your local running club surrounding yourself with better and knowledgeable folks will bring you on no end.....it is also amazing how much more you will push yourselves in group sessions.

The Muppet

skyblue46 wrote: »

Was looking at the graduate thread myself. I noticed that The Muppet started it and he was one of that years Novices. WW and his crew got the job done and deserve their freedom from the curse of this years Novices thread. I'd say it's up to one of our group to create the graduate thread and send out the death notice for this one. Nudge nudge Baby

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ooooooh I'd say you'd take on any dare! Get typing there kiddo, The Muppet did a massive intro last year so give yourself a bit of time...:D:pac:

The process last year was that our mentor looked for a volunteer to start the thread , I volunteered and so it was.