DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

brownbinman

First run in nearly 2 weeks yesterday. Just did an easy 10km and felt no issues with legs thankfully. Delighted to be back.

Still have time to get back up to 30km ish and hope for the best on the day.

drkpower

Sorry about the long report but keeping it for posterity!
TL;DR: 1.40.11, not a PB, but given the circumstances and return from injury, I’m very happy with that. Solidifies my thinking on 3.40 marathon.

Pre-Race

It was pretty much the omnishambles for me as it was for everyone else; kids crying in the car, ‘family day’ cancelled, dropped off at slip road roundabout, walk to venue, confusion re waves, starting late, no warm up etc. All that said, i don’t fancy dancing on the grave of the organisers; by all accounts, they have an incredible record; when they guy in work who always delivers has a one-time catastrophic f**k up, you cut him some slack. In any case, I found much of it a bit of a laugh and there was generally a good sense of camaraderie out there.

Miles 1-3 [7.17; 7.17; 7.18]

So I had planned to go out with the 1.40 pacers, see how I was after the hills and then push on if I was feeling it. If I managed to shave a couple of minutes off 1.40, great, but on the other hand I was minding my injured foot so I was going to play it conservatively. As I was walking up to the start line, I thought the race had only just started and a few people said they saw the 1.50 pacers back in the field so I figured that the 1.40s were not too far gone. My amended plan was to try and catch up with them, then slot in behind, and then continue with my plan.

Cut to me weaving past dozens of runners, slowing down/speeding up, up and down kerbs. All a bit of a mess, though I felt good. I knew I was going too fast but I just thought, catch up the 1.40s and you will be grand.. Somewhere about 3 miles in, I arrived behind the 1.50 pacers. Arrghh; it turned out I had started 15 minutes late so there was no chance of me catching the 1.40 pacers. A bit demoralised I just slowed down to 1.40 ish pace and decided to conserve energy for the next few miles and see how I went.

Miles 4 – 7 [7.44; 7.48; 7.58; 7.53]

Those hills were bleak, especially before the turn. Felt great coming out of Lusk at c 3 miles (super support from the locals) but after the pacers debacle and those hills, the energy was starting to wane. The lack of a water stop at mile 6 wasn’t a physical problem as I had taken on some water at mile 3, but it was a mental one; I had kind of looked forward to it as a bit of a treat which never came.

Miles 8 & 9: [ 7.15; 7.10]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Fun downhills.

Miles 10 – 13.1: [7.43; 7.39; 7.50; 7.32]

After the downhills, I figured I was probably just ahead of 1.40 pace and going under the firemen sprinklers, I felt pretty good so decided I would try to push on a bit, get the average pace to maybe 7.10/7.20 and try and come in around 1.38.xx; that would pretty much match my HM PB (done in a ‘training race against myself’ pre-injury 2 weeks ago). But when I pushed, it just wasn’t there; not sure why - probably a combo of the fast and stuttery start, the headwind, the pretty boring old swords road and the knowledge that come what may I was going to do c. 1.40.xx which was my target anyway and reluctance to push it given my foot. So the last few miles were a bit of a drag but came in at 1.40.11, which I was happy with given all the circumstances.

More fun and games getting home and then pints that night. After about 5 pints, I completely hit the alcohol wall; collapsed home and into bed; I had hydrated and eaten well afterwards, so not sure what happened but I will be taking it easy after the DCM that’s for sure!!

Andy31

scotindublin wrote: »

Hi Andy;

Firstly well done on the time yesterday and gutsing it out in the end!

If you could give a bit of an overview of the mileage you have been hitting over the last couple of months then WW and AMK are 2 of the go to experts that offer great advice on here. What sort of pace are you doing your long runs at and how are you feeling at the end of these?

It sounds like you have learned some lessons on proper pacing from yesterday which will stand to you in the marathon.


Last year I had a very similar 1/2 marathon time to you and ran the marathon in just over 3:46. This came off a good block of training and a lot of advice from last year's mentors.

Andy31 wrote: »

Hi guys

I am a novice marathoner and looking for some advice from some more experienced runners than myself.

I have been training okay (not quite up to 20 miles yet in the long runs but will hopefully get there next week) and have completed the SSE 10K (44mins) and half marathon (1 hr 40) races.

My question is that I have almost no idea what time I should realistically be aiming for in the marathon itself? It would obviously be helpful to know this as then I could try and pace myself properly.  Yesterday (the half marathon) , I went pretty quick for the first 10K I am logged as 07:34 min per mile and for the rest of the race that dropped to 7:47 min per mile.  This was a bad mistake though - I was pretty much completely gassed coming in the last 1.5 miles, to the point where I was thinking will I even make the finish, and I have not run that fast in any of my long runs.  Recently I did a LSR of 17.2 miles at 9:55min per mile and then did 14.7 miles at avg 8:07min per mile ( I think by then I had built up a bit of stamina for that run so felt more confident going a bit faster).    

Any thoughts or tips for the next 5 weeks would be appreciated on proposed pacing for the marathon! Baseline fitness would be pretty okay.

Also understand it is not all about the timing BUT some feedback from someone with some experience would be great - thanks.

Well done to everyone yesterday despite the traffic mess - crowd and participants were all superb.    

Andy

Thanks for the input scotindublin - have tended to leave the recovery runs out (until this week) and the Monday runs, so my weekly mileage for running only is probably a bit lower than it should be. I play soccer on a Monday night so I get a lot of fitness done at that. I'm doing around 30 miles per week the past two weeks, and for the 3 or 4 weeks before that it is anywhere from a low of 16 miles to 28 miles per week.  Broadly I'd say an average of around around 25/26 miles a week for those weeks.  I'm planning on getting up to 40-43 miles in for each of the next two weeks.  My LSR pace has been creeping up - last LSR was at 8:07 min/mi (but that was fast - was feeling great that day) but before that on average it was at around 9 -9:50 min/mi.  So very varied!  I suppose my main goal (if I can ) is to try beat 4 hours - I think it's doable but hey.....who knows how I'll be feeling after 20 miles on the day.

Any thoughts apprecaited as we enter the final weeks!

Sheep1978

Similar to someone above, I'm now looking to set an approximate PMP following Saturdays HM. Did Sat in 1.39.07. So would any of the more experienced guys have any input or suggestions based on that time and whether they felt the course was tough/easy etc.? I know there's no exact science or formula here so just looking for some general guidelines.

Damo 2k9

Andy31 wrote: »

Thanks for the input scotindublin - have tended to leave the recovery runs out (until this week) and the Monday runs, so my weekly mileage for running only is probably a bit lower than it should be. I play soccer on a Monday night so I get a lot of fitness done at that. I'm doing around 30 miles per week the past two weeks, and for the 3 or 4 weeks before that it is anywhere from a low of 16 miles to 28 miles per week.  Broadly I'd say an average of around around 25/26 miles a week for those weeks.  I'm planning on getting up to 40-43 miles in for each of the next two weeks.  My LSR pace has been creeping up - last LSR was at 8:07 min/mi (but that was fast - was feeling great that day) but before that on average it was at around 9 -9:50 min/mi.  So very varied!  I suppose my main goal (if I can ) is to try beat 4 hours - I think it's doable but hey.....who knows how I'll be feeling after 20 miles on the day.

Any thoughts apprecaited as we enter the final weeks!

Andy I've practically the same times as you, along with the same type of weekly mileage, almost down to the button. I haven't done a 20 mile yet either, mine is next week which is the 40 mile week, and then the taper starts. One thing that's been drilled into my head from the great people on here is keep the slow runs slow .

There's nothing wrong with throwing in a bit faster run during the week but it all comes down to the long slow runs. It took me a while to adapt, and I said to myself a lot of the time that if I run 9:30-9:50 miles in training, how will I ever get back to running 8 min/miles. Well yesterday I went out and absolutely leathered the half marathon out of it, and I can't thank the people on here enough for that. The experts will be on soon enough to explain it in detail, but from being very like yourself I know the feeling of wanting to run fast! It's a killer but it will be worth it in the long run... :pac:

Andy31

Fair play Damo!  I'm all "scienced" out at this stage - so just looking forward to getting out there and getting it done and seeing what I come in at!

Andy31

Fair play Damo!  I'm all "scienced" out at this stage - so just looking forward to getting out there and getting it done and seeing what I come in at!

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

I think it's already sold out. I clicked the link and it says "No bookings available"!

Ooooops sorry my bad, i was clicking last years link. It is still available, it's €49 though :eek:

Last night they had 88 places left I think, Ps Hubby did that as well clicked the wrong link

I know, but by all accounts, it is worth it, it is not a race and pacers go out at pmp and bring you up to mp to finish strong it is said to be a training run designed for the last LSR for DCM all I am reading and hearing is good things about it, I am actually looking forward to it now.

drkpower the start may have taken more out of you than you realised, weaving in and out of people it was very warm and then working hard up the hills, I felt fine going up them even enjoyed the last ones which were the hardest, but I was sweating hard, I had my water with me, but like you was looking forward to the second water stop to grab a little to pour over my head to cool me down. I had my tailwind in my water so couldn't use that LOL I found that running on the old swords road long and boring give me old country roads any day, it had a nice drag on it. with the headwind, it made it hard to pick up the pace. all things considered, you did great. I hope the kids enjoyed the park mine had a great time

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

Last night they had 88 places left I think, Ps Hubby did that as well clicked the wrong link

I know, but by all accounts, it is worth it, it is not a race and pacers go out at pmp and bring you up to mp to finish strong it is said to be a training run designed for the last LSR for DCM all I am reading and hearing is good things about it, I am actually looking forward to it now.

drkpower the start may have taken more out of you than you realised, weaving in and out of people it was very warm and then working hard up the hills, I felt fine going up them even enjoyed the last ones which were the hardest, but I was sweating hard, I had my water with me, but like you was looking forward to the second water stop to grab a little to pour over my head to cool me down. I had my tailwind in my water so couldn't use that LOL I found that running on the old swords road long and boring give me old country roads any day, it had a nice drag on it. with the headwind, it made it hard to pick up the pace. all things considered, you did great. I hope the kids enjoyed the park mine had a great time

I am tempted! I've done all the LSRs on my own and they have been tough mentally. Here's my pro/con list
Pros
1. Run with people
2. Practice running with pacers
3. Test MP in a race environment
4. Possibly get to meet some fellow DCM novices?
5. New route/change of scenery

Cons.
1. Two drive there and another 2 hrs back
2. Entry fee

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

I am tempted! I've done all the LSRs on my own and they have been tough mentally. Here's my pro/con list
Pros
1. Run with people
2. Practice running with pacers
3. Test MP in a race environment
4. Possibly get to meet some fellow DCM novices?
5. New route/change of scenery

Cons.
1. Two drive there and another 2 hrs back
2. Entry fee

well the pros outweigh the cons, and the good news is that as a boards member you get a 10% discount see here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102970027
I hope that helps you and you get a lovely top and finishers medal

I will be there and I think I will stick with the 4 hr 30-minute pacers if it gets a bit hard I will let them go on but that is my plan for now as I agree I find the LSR long and feel like I need the company esp for this one! I did notice it is under 20 miles so I have to do just over 1km to make it 20miles might do it really slowly beforehand as part of a warm-up

leesider77

Baby75 wrote: »

well the pros outweigh the cons, and the good news is that as a boards member you get a 10% discount see here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102970027
I hope that helps you and you get a lovely top and finishers medal

I will be there and I think I will stick with the 4 hr 30-minute pacers if it gets a bit hard I will let them go on but that is my plan for now as I agree I find the LSR long and feel like I need the company esp for this one! I did notice it is under 20 miles so I have to do just over 1km to make it 20miles might do it really slowly beforehand as part of a warm-up

I was planning to do this but my running obsession has given me a bit of amnesia for everything else. Its actually the date of my youngest child's birthday party so I think I may be required to attend this. I'm disappointed as I wanted to test myself with the pacers and also liked the fact that I wouldn't have to think about carrying water on my 20 miles.

scotindublin

Hi Andy the main concern I would have is that you are going into the marathon off a fairly low mileage base but if you have a decent natural level of fitness and age (?) on your side then there have been examples of folks still achieving good marathon times.

For the next couple of weeks and I am hoping WW will correct me if I am wrong here I would suggest that you try to get 2 decent LSRs in (what distances have you previously covered??) these should be run at an appropriated pace circa 9 minutes 30 per mile. LSR pace should not be creeping up ensure that it is nice and controlled. Jumping from 30 miles to 40-43 miles quickly is also increasing the risk of injury.

There is a great post from Cabello for yesterday that you should have a look at regarding pacing etc on the day.

Andy31 wrote: »

Thanks for the input scotindublin - have tended to leave the recovery runs out (until this week) and the Monday runs, so my weekly mileage for running only is probably a bit lower than it should be. I play soccer on a Monday night so I get a lot of fitness done at that. I'm doing around 30 miles per week the past two weeks, and for the 3 or 4 weeks before that it is anywhere from a low of 16 miles to 28 miles per week.  Broadly I'd say an average of around around 25/26 miles a week for those weeks.  I'm planning on getting up to 40-43 miles in for each of the next two weeks.  My LSR pace has been creeping up - last LSR was at 8:07 min/mi (but that was fast - was feeling great that day) but before that on average it was at around 9 -9:50 min/mi.  So very varied!  I suppose my main goal (if I can ) is to try beat 4 hours - I think it's doable but hey.....who knows how I'll be feeling after 20 miles on the day.

Any thoughts apprecaited as we enter the final weeks!

ariana`

leesider77 wrote: »

I was planning to do this but my running obsession has given me a bit of amnesia for everything else. Its actually the date of my youngest child's birthday party so I think I may be required to attend this. I'm disappointed as I wanted to test myself with the pacers and also liked the fact that I wouldn't have to think about carrying water on my 20 miles.

Oh the joys. One of mine turns 5 the day after DCM. I'm not quite sure what to do, i can't imagine i'll be fit for much let alone a gang of 5 yr olds :eek:

leesider77

ariana` wrote: »

Oh the joys. One of mine turns 5 the day after DCM. I'm not quite sure what to do, i can't imagine i'll be fit for much let alone a gang of 5 yr olds :eek:

Ha - I'm having the exact same thoughts as it will be the day after my 20 miler. There will be 35 (!) 5/6 year olds at the party. 20 miles will be a walk in the park compared to the party.;)

leesider77

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Fun downhills.

Love it! I felt like I was flying as well. Best feeling ever.

jameshayes

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Similar to someone above, I'm now looking to set an approximate PMP following Saturdays HM. Did Sat in 1.39.07. So would any of the more experienced guys have any input or suggestions based on that time and whether they felt the course was tough/easy etc.? I know there's no exact science or formula here so just looking for some general guidelines.

This is a pretty handy tool if you fill in all the optional bits: https://www.runnersworld.com/tools/race-time-predictor

Baby75

Oh that happened us at the FD 10 mile my daughters 9th birthday :cool: so after we finished we brought her to the zoo my poor legs

Ariana you may sit down and give orders and have someone else do the running around or go somewhere and let them do all the work


On a side note anyone else starving today!!! I am fighting the urge to eat the house empty :eek:

podgec10

Well done to all the HM finishers this weekend, sounds like a nightmare situation so take the positive from finishing alone and getting a good time if you did.

I had a bad 20 mile experience 2 weeks ago so I took it easy the week after that, ran 3 times and got 30k for the week. We were at a good friend's wedding on Saturday the 9th and I think it was just what I needed after a bad week before, a easy week and a good blow out of craic, and dancing and some drinking!! Mostly clean living now again until D-Day.

This week was good again

Mon - rest/nearly recovered from wedding!!
Tues - 16.2k @ 5:22/k 1hr 27min
Wed - 8k @ 5:13/k 40:16
Thurs - 3k wu, 7 x 800m/400 @ :20/800, 3k wd (14.5k in total gps) loved this session!
Fri - rest/pizza mmmmmhhh
Sat - 16k @ PMP 4:44/k 1hr 16min
Sun - 33k @ 5:28/km 3hrs and 32 seconds

This week felt good, in a positive mood now again about running. Planned the LSR better, much more organised regarding the route, water and fuel, took 3 gels in total @10k, 17k and 24k with jelly babies and water each time. I could have kept running at that pace for longer yesterday but didn't, sticking to the plan.

I also took a gel during the pace run on Saturday and didn't have any ill effects. I have been taking and took after both runs this weekend protein shakes, it's 150ml of milk and 150ml of water with one scoop of vanilla protein powder. It seems to work well for me. I feel good after it and then shower and proper food. lots of proper food. I haven't lost any weight on the scales (~80kg) but I have definitely lost upper body mass which seems strange that it doesn't show on the scales.

My pace runs have been geared towards 3:20 marathon time and I have done 1 x 15k and 1 x 1 16k at this pace but the mind is always there questioning if this is possible for the full 42.2k. I just don't think would be any chance of speeding up later in a marathon no matter what pace I went from the start so hopefully even pace all the way.

easier week this week now and then the same runs as this week after that week and then taper! its getting exciting!

Keep it going everyone, you're all doing great!

henrietta

Well done everyone on the half marathon. Some great times and PBs especially considering the shambles at the start.

I got up to the 20 mile lsr this week and it wasn't too bad really. I did cheat a little in that I changed my planned route so that I wouldn't have to do the last half into the strong wind. Felt if I had to I probably had another mile in me at that pace but def not 6!

Day Miles Time Pace
18-Sep 5.00 44.45 8.56
20-Sep 9.07 1.27.56 9.42
22-Sep 5.55 55.02 9.55
23-Sep 20.20 3.34.40 10.38

I also do a circuit class on Tues and a Boxfit on Thurs. I rest on Sundays.
Monday's run was fast because I run on rural country roads and it was getting dark so had to get around quick, it was meant to be 6 miles but just got too late.

I'm really getting nervous now that despite having put in the miles I've done the training all wrong. I just didn't do any of the runs slow enough especially the LSR. I know we were told often enough and I did try to slow for the long ones but it didn't happen. I mean my pace is pretty slow anyway so any slower and I really am just plodding I feel. Now I'm afraid its all going to come back to haunt me.
A 4.30 marathon would be an absolute dream for me which is 10.20 pace but don't know if that is too ambitious? I did the Tullamore half a few weeks back in 2.04.20 but it was hard going.
Having read the advice here I know I should be looking at 4.40/4.45 which is 10.40+ pace but a mad part of me wants to go for it and not end up wondering what if. It seems mad that my marathon would be done slower than all my LSRs. Argh Decisions decisions.

ariana`

henrietta wrote: »

Well done everyone on the half marathon. Some great times and PBs especially considering the shambles at the start.

I got up to the 20 mile lsr this week and it wasn't too bad really. I did cheat a little in that I changed my planned route so that I wouldn't have to do the last half into the strong wind. Felt if I had to I probably had another mile in me at that pace but def not 6!

Day Miles Time Pace
18-Sep 5.00 44.45 8.56
20-Sep 9.07 1.27.56 9.42
22-Sep 5.55 55.02 9.55
23-Sep 20.20 3.34.40 10.38

I also do a circuit class on Tues and a Boxfit on Thurs. I rest on Sundays.
Monday's run was fast because I run on rural country roads and it was getting dark so had to get around quick, it was meant to be 6 miles but just got too late.

I'm really getting nervous now that despite having put in the miles I've done the training all wrong. I just didn't do any of the runs slow enough especially the LSR. I know we were told often enough and I did try to slow for the long ones but it didn't happen. I mean my pace is pretty slow anyway so any slower and I really am just plodding I feel. Now I'm afraid its all going to come back to haunt me.
A 4.30 marathon would be an absolute dream for me which is 10.20 pace but don't know if that is too ambitious? I did the Tullamore half a few weeks back in 2.04.20 but it was hard going.
Having read the advice here I know I should be looking at 4.40/4.45 which is 10.40+ pace but a mad part of me wants to go for it and not end up wondering what if. It seems mad that my marathon would be done slower than all my LSRs. Argh Decisions decisions.

I'm not an expert but i don't think 4:30 is off the cards for you. Don't they say HM x 2 + 20? 2:04:20 x 2 + 20 = 4:28:40

You had a good week there and you felt you could have kept going on the 20m LSR! hat is brilliant. I am always ready to collapse at the end of mine :oT

I haven't settled on a time yet but i think it will be either 4:20 or 4:30 and I've been running my LSRs just every so slightly quicker than you (about 10 seconds per mile quicker) and to be honest i've probably be running them a small bit too fast or else my easy runs too slow cos i seem to have the same pace for both.

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

I'm not an expert but i don't think 4:30 is off the cards for you. Don't they say HM x 2 + 20? 2:04:20 x 2 + 20 = 4:28:40

You had a good week there and you felt you could have kept going on the 20m LSR! hat is brilliant. I am always ready to collapse at the end of mine :oT

I haven't settled on a time yet but i think it will be either 4:20 or 4:30 and I've been running my LSRs just every so slightly quicker than you (about 10 seconds per mile quicker) and to be honest i've probably be running them a small bit too fast or else my easy runs too slow cos i seem to have the same pace for both.

I was just going to say the same, my HM time was 2hrs 11 minutes which put's me at 4hrs 38 minutes by a predictor which had my HM time slower than I ran it, So I am aiming for 4hrs 30 for Marathon!

So I agree with Ariana you will have no problem going out with the 4hr 30-minute group and I expect to come in ahead of them

Huzzah!

skyblue46 wrote: »

I think people are hugely overstating issues re water and Lucozade. If you were well fed and watered beforehand it shouldn't be a problem on a half.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I can get over everything else and I feel somewhat bad for the organisers that things went as badly wrong as they did. But the water situation, to me, was the only unforgivable part.

I take exception to the implication that it's my own fault or that I didn't prepare adequately.

skyblue46

Just a quick question for WW and his merry band of helpers. Once again it's a pace related question.

From the outset of this plan I have aimed for a 4 hour marathon. This aim has not changed and will not be changing. To date I have stuck pretty firmly to conservative paces for training and kept mileage consistently high. My LSRs have generally been between 9.40 and 10.00 min miles, my easy at 9.20/9.30 and my MP miles at about 9 mins/ml.

All has been going well so far and I did the half in 1.40.45 which is 7.41 per mile. Now because of increased fitness all my training paces feel easy. So do I continue to train at paces appropriate to a 4hr MP or in the light of my improved fitness should I increase paces to the point where I put myself in some difficulty in training?

hot buttered scones

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just a quick question for WW and his merry band of helpers. Once again it's a pace related question.

From the outset of this plan I have aimed for a 4 hour marathon. This aim has not changed and will not be changing. To date I have stuck pretty firmly to conservative paces for training and kept mileage consistently high. My LSRs have generally been between 9.40 and 10.00 min miles, my easy at 9.20/9.30 and my MP miles at about 9 mins/ml.

All has been going well so far and I did the half in 1.40.45 which is 7.41 per mile. Now because of increased fitness all my training paces feel easy. So do I continue to train at paces appropriate to a 4hr MP or in the light of my improved fitness should I increase paces to the point where I put myself in some difficulty in training?

If your not changing your goal, then I would say just keep doing what you've been doing. It seems to be working well for you, so why change it now, so close to race day?

henrietta

Thanks Ariana and Baby75.
On a good day I think so too but getting all stressed reading about aerobic and anaerobic threshold etc.
Maybe I just need to stop over thinking it. Surely by 3hr 38mins it must be aerobic running, you couldn't sustain anaerobic for that long could you?
I think a lot of the articles advice etc is geared toward faster runners?
I am in the last wave which is for 4.30+ so I will try start at the front of that and see what happens.
I haven't even factored in a toilet break if necessary either.
Oh God I might drive myself mad at this rate!!

Also probably asked before but I can't remember is the 4.30 pacer at back of wave 3 or front of wave 4?
I've never ran a race with waves before and have no idea how it works.
Will those of us in 4 have to run ages to get to start?
I presume the finish clock is set for Wave 1 so we can take min half hour off it as we start half hour later?

sgal

Hi, well done to everyone on all the brilliant effort so far. Question for anyone who has struggled though. I was going great on my training up until 17 miles which was the end of August. Prior to this I had 16 miles in the bag and the following week was a step back, I decided to introduce my new runners to the mix and work on speed (well what little I have) and all seemed fine - the long run that week was 10 miles. Then my long run of 17 miles the next week was a disaster  - I felt like I hit the wall at 13 miles - no energy/lift and a lot of discomfort especially on my lift leg. I put it down to a bad day but my next few runs of 6 miles or so I experienced similar issues. I spoke with my physio who advised a rest so i didn't run for almost a week. My next long runs saw me attempt 18 miles in the middle of September but again I struggled and just about managed 17 miles but my pace was pathetic over the last mile or two. I have paired back my runs outside of the long runs to about 4 -5 mile runs. I went to a different physio (my usual one was on hols) who identified issues with my IT band stemming from weak glutes on my left side. I have experienced this before and my training for last years DCM was based around managing it but I had no issues on my long runs last year 16, 18, 20 miles were hard but doable. My pace last year was about the same from mile 1 to 20. I have already gone back to my old runners. I'm not great for doing them but I've been exercising for my glutes and IT band and foam rolling. I struggled again with this weeks long run - it should have been 18 but I ended up walking miles 16 and 17. The only difference from this year to last year is I am stopping at certain intervals to take on water (7 or 8 miles would usually be my first drink) last year I had a good belt but lost it and I'm waiting on delivery of a new one. I am not sure if its a mental thing at this stage or what. I have more miles under my belt than last year so it should stand to me. My runners have between around 450  miles on them. I am paranoid to change them now even though they may need it. The plan is for 20 miles this weekend but seem to be stuck on 16 or so. I'm getting a decent amount of carbs in. I'm taking hi5 isogels reguarly but just struggling massively. I sometimes think that I had the fear last year of not finishing the marathon spurring me on and am I missing that. I know I'll struggle on the day from 20/22 miles on but I don't want to end up walking the last 10 miles of the day itself. Has anyone else experienced anything similar? I'd happily consider steroids/blood doping at this stage!!!

skyblue46

Huzzah! wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I can get over everything else and I feel somewhat bad for the organisers that things went as badly wrong as they did. But the water situation, to me, was the only unforgivable part.

I take exception to the implication that it's my own fault or that I didn't prepare adequately.

Sorry about that. No criticism implied. I was simply referring to the fact that Lucozade taken with 2 miles to go wouldn't get into the system soon enough to be of any benefit. As for the water, people need about 250ml per hour of strenuous activity. Assuming some hydration was taken pre race there is not a huge physical requirement for 3/4 water stations on the course. I accept this is purely scientific and does not allow for the upset at not seeing water where you expect it to be.

skyblue46

hot buttered scones wrote: »

If your not changing your goal, then I would say just keep doing what you've been doing. It seems to be working well for you, so why change it now, so close to race day?

I suppose it's just this feeling, fuelled by ads for sports drinks etc, that training should drive you to the point of exhaustion...the no pain, no gain idea... I'm more than happy to keep plodding along pain free...apart from sore feet and blisters!!

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just a quick question for WW and his merry band of helpers. Once again it's a pace related question.

From the outset of this plan I have aimed for a 4 hour marathon. This aim has not changed and will not be changing. To date I have stuck pretty firmly to conservative paces for training and kept mileage consistently high. My LSRs have generally been between 9.40 and 10.00 min miles, my easy at 9.20/9.30 and my MP miles at about 9 mins/ml.

All has been going well so far and I did the half in 1.40.45 which is 7.41 per mile. Now because of increased fitness all my training paces feel easy. So do I continue to train at paces appropriate to a 4hr MP or in the light of my improved fitness should I increase paces to the point where I put myself in some difficulty in training?

I'm obviously no expert but I think you'd be doing yourself an injustice running with the 4hour pacers. 1.40 half equates to a lot faster by most calculators and even the conservative double and add 20 mins would have you in around 3.40.

Some of the harder runs I've done are when I've ran purposely slower and felt like my stride had changed and I was limiting my natural movement hitting the ground harder and plodding along, my thinking is you don't wanna be out there running any longer than you have to!

hot buttered scones

skyblue46 wrote: »

I suppose it's just this feeling, fuelled by ads for sports drinks etc, that training should drive you to the point of exhaustion...the no pain, no gain idea... I'm more than happy to keep plodding along pain free...apart from sore feet and blisters!!

Block out the noise. Hard days hard, easy days easy. If you were exhausted after every run you wouldn't be long breaking down. Yeah, some days, some sessions should be hard - but being driven to the point of exhaustion - leave that until marathon day. All this "plodding" you're doing - it's improving your aerobic capacity and your endurance and your HM result proves that.
Just train away like you've been doing, and start off at 4 hour pace. If you get to 20 miles feeling good, push on from there. If not, then stick to the pacers.