Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Richard308

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Quite frankly, YES!! I am regardless...[Speaking as a US citizen]as I prefer to not have the Govt of the US infringing further in my rights to own arms without willingly handing over further info that will be used against me. Vs some dubious idea of some safety and prevention of gun crime. Do we also background check someone who comes up to us and wants to buy a car or truck off us now as well? After all they might use that car in a murder spree or for a robbery too? That is the same logic.

And if I am selling it privately, and no one knew I had it before this date as it is unregistered and the paper trail of the forms 4473 are buried in some police dept or sheriff dept basement or has been destroyed or it was an inheritance piece long before ther gun control act of 1964 ever came about to whomever, and I get cash and no one is any the wiser...How does that work out ?




What do you not understand here? This WILL NOT HAPPEN in the US for the simple fact ,it is impossible to create on a Federal, State or Local level, because it is [1] unconstitutional and also in many states now illegal
[2] unenforceable without major civil strife
[3,] No one bar maybe Fudds or some idiots like Biden and the majority of anti-gun ownership Democrats might consider this idea as practical to stop illegal gun sales. Or Europeans who have no clue on how Americans think on these issues.




And thank you for proving the dreaded words "it's just" as the most terrifying words in the 2020s. WHY SHOULD WE go and stick our heads in a noose that will be used further against us by a bunch of anti-gun zealots and gunophobics to curtail rights in the US? There is ZERO material gain for people to do such.

You have obviously missed out or just don't want to take aboard, that everywhere in the world where this has happened...even here in Ireland... It has lead to arbitrary restrictions and prohibitions..So why do you think it would work in the US or that anyone would obey such an edict??




Really?? I guess you missed Waco then? An ATF raid that was ostensibly about gun dealer registary illegalities, and then became a suspected meth lab, then it as concern for child abuse? Thats just one of many such dealings the US police forces use against gun owners Id also suggest you look up "deaths caused by Red flag gun laws in the USA". Then come back and reconsider your above statement?

Do you HONESTLY think with such a militarized police force on all three levels in the US,its going to be Officer Friendly calling around to have a nice cuppa and a chat about inspecting any firearms you might have, and would you please register them? If you do you have no clue on how US police works or you have an incredible, and niave faith in humanity.



.

Who going by a previous link article happen to be corrupt dealers supplying criminals or stealing or coercing, bribing or otherwise unwilling marks to legally buy them firearms legally either from a dealer or an unwitting private citizen.

The easiest way out of this is simply to ask as a private citizen to see the buyers if they have such, a concealed carry permit if unknown to them personally or ask them to give them a reference of good character if they don't have one.

No need for intrusive registries or costly programmes wasting further tax dollars, as the concealed carry registry is a state-run operation of each state and not federally connected.

Idaho school shooting: Girl in Rigby wounds three, police say https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57018329

otmmyboy2

Richard308 wrote: »

Idaho school shooting: Girl in Rigby wounds three, police say https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57018329

Utterly tragic.

I wonder what drove her to do it.

Richard308

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Utterly tragic.

I wonder what drove her to do it.

Agreed, my daughter is a similar age. How can people not secure their guns(yes I know different culture but I wouldn’t leave my chainsaw running in the garden). I know it’s a different culture but, can you imagine being the parents of the injured kids. Hopefully flesh wound no life altering injuries.

Heartbreaking

tonysopprano

Story has completely DISSAPPEARED off US media. Wonder if it has anything to do with 12 year old GIRL, who handed over the firearm to a FEMALE teacher, without a struggle.

The shootings were not in a classroom, and the sex/and or age of the victims is not being disclosed, for some reason.

If it doesn't fit the "white supremacist male shooter, trump supporter" it is disappeared by BIG TECHNO MEDIA.

Wonder was it near the toilets?, because Idaho......leads the way

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[
I was going by your sweeping oversimplification statement.

My statement was on private sales, that was clearly. So either you didn’t understand, or you purposely misconstrued it. Neither reflects well on it.

And as to set up a national, Federal, state or local database of the private citizenry to be able to do sales or purchases...How do you propose this to happen without the registration of all firearms databases?
...
In short this is another anti gun pipe dream that will be costly, ineffective harrass the law abiding,do nothing to prevent criminals getting guns,and just give a govt more right to meddle in your life.

This is sheer nonsense.
I said nothing about registration. Or creating database. Or creating an inventory with existing housing stock. This is all fantasy.

Sales at a dealership include a background check. That’s doesn’t infringe anyones rights.
Some states do require background checks. Those check doesn’t involve SWAT knocking down anyone’s door. Pretending it’s required is beyond childish.

Claiming that private sales are not a pathway for people who should hold firearms to obtain them is either complete delusion, or blatant lying.
The fact is, a background check doesn’t prevent anyone one entitled to hold a firearm from holding one. It’s an extra step so some law abiding people are against it.
Obviously, people who can’t pass a background check are against it as it’s a loophole they can use.

Richard308

Spy row revs up Czech-Russian tensions https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57008363

I wonder how many Russian embassy staff in Dublin and how many Irish in Moscow.

Rows Grower

The Israel's seem to have things under control over there with their gun laws, perhaps the USA might learn a thing or two from them if they are serious about preventing mass shootings.

There's also a link in this article where Donald Trump says he would have ran in and faced a mass shooter unarmed, I never knew he was so brave.

https://www.thewrap.com/carried-gun-israel-heres-learned-gun-control/

Richard308

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Israel's seem to have things under control over there with their gun laws, perhaps the USA might learn a thing or two from them if they are serious about preventing mass shootings.

There's also a link in this article where Donald Trump says he would have ran in and faced a mass shooter unarmed, I never knew he was so brave.

https://www.thewrap.com/carried-gun-israel-heres-learned-gun-control/

Well he was wealthy and clever enough to dodge (heal spurs)the draft for Vietnam, so I am sure he would have done the brave thing there.

Munsterlad102

Richard308 wrote: »

Spy row revs up Czech-Russian tensions https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57008363

I wonder how many Russian embassy staff in Dublin and how many Irish in Moscow.

"The annual commemoration here to remember 140,000 Soviet troops who died liberating Czechoslovakia from Nazi Germany in 1945". Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of the Czech Republic was under German occupation when the Germans surrendered. So a very weird point to make in the article.

Munsterlad102

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Israel's seem to have things under control over there with their gun laws, perhaps the USA might learn a thing or two from them if they are serious about preventing mass shootings.

Ah yes, because Israel hasn't had a mass shooting in the last 20 years. It's almost as if terrorists or criminals don't follow laws.

There's also a link in this article where Donald Trump says he would have ran in and faced a mass shooter unarmed, I never knew he was so brave.

https://www.thewrap.com/carried-gun-israel-heres-learned-gun-control/

Seriously, what's your obsession with Trump? Every second post from you is about him. Trump derangement syndrome anyone?

Grizzly 45

Richard308 wrote: »

Idaho school shooting: Girl in Rigby wounds three, police say https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57018329

AND??? Relevance?Apart from trying to employ the "Its for the children" tactical nuke argument ender?

Maybe you should relate that to irresponsible parents allowing minors access to a firearm? Which is also a crime over there.

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

My statement was on private sales, that was clearly. So either you didn’t understand, or you purposely misconstrued it. Neither reflects well on it.

Too bad you have a problem with English and getting called on sweeping statements...

This is sheer nonsense.
I said nothing about registration. Or creating database. Or creating an inventory with existing housing stock. This is all fantasy.

The fantasy is you thinking this is possible with your applying European logic on a problem that is in a different culture to yours.

Sales at a dealership include a background check. That’s doesn’t infringe anyones rights.
Some states do require background checks. Those check doesn’t involve SWAT knocking down anyone’s door. Pretending it’s required is beyond childish.

Well, the first point has been argued that is actually does. As you might have missed the point at the end of the 2amendment .SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED?
Maybe go and read it and put it in the context of US constitutional law?

2nd point is well you are either in denial and can't answer the question of HOW you would implement this in real life in the USA? The simple answer it CANT.BE .DONE now if you think it can go away and tell the states,the Feds and the people who are much better qualified than both of us in US constitutional law that specialize in this part of the constitution how to do this as they are obviously totally and utterly wrong and have been missing your brilliant solution. IF it could be done,you would need constitutional change and you only need 33 states to ratify a change to the constitution...Easy peasy.

Claiming that private sales are not a pathway for people who should hold firearms to obtain them is either complete delusion, or blatant lying

.

Says the man who has been doing all two of his above accusations...Typical...:D When you untwist my words I said it is not a major problem of how criminals acquire guns in the US. Even, should you care to read the previously posted article even the ATF agent interviewed said so himself? Their problem is dodgy gun dealers selling the criminals guns either stolen or straw purchased out of state That is the pertinent point out of the article.

Richard308

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

AND??? Relevance?Apart from trying to employ the "Its for the children" tactical nuke argument ender?

Maybe you should relate that to irresponsible parents allowing minors access to a firearm? Which is also a crime over there.

I think I did reference irresponsible people. So to what nuke do you refer. I was saying it was tragic and needless. But if you want to see that as anti gun, that’s up to you.

Grizzly 45

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Israel's seem to have things under control over there with their gun laws, perhaps the USA might learn a thing or two from them if they are serious about preventing mass shootings.

There's also a link in this article where Donald Trump says he would have ran in and faced a mass shooter unarmed, I never knew he was so brave.

https://www.thewrap.com/carried-gun-israel-heres-learned-gun-control/

b

Oh stop the LIGHTS!!!:eek::eek::rolleyes:
Comparing a country that is on a war footing, since its foundation in 1948 and hasn't ever known a day of peace since then.

Is highly militarised with over 90% of its population either underarms or in the military reserve and has a Socialist Kibbutzum as a form of Govt? With a population of 9.5 million? Its an army with a country,not a country with an army.IOW guns are there aplenty,and if you need one the govt will hand you one no bother.

So how this can even be a logical comparison with a country that's over 200 years old,has a constitutional republic as a form of Govt, over 20 times the pouplation, and a constitutional right to bear arms is beyond me.

They actually allow concealed carry in Israel and encourage their people to apply and get their concealed carry permits, have armed teachers in their schools, hence they have had ZERO school shootings since sometime in the early 80s,and their parents and communities actually also provide undercover armed protection every school day on a rotary basis.

So on that point, you are 100% right !!! The US certainly could learn about that from Israel by providing armed teachers and outside parental guardians

There's also a link in this article where Donald Trump says he would have ran in and faced a mass shooter unarmed, I never knew he was so brave.

Commenting on the Parkland High school shooting in Florida where an armed police officer sat outside for 20 mins and did nothing while the shooter was on the rampage.

Grizzly 45

Richard308 wrote: »

Idaho school shooting: Girl in Rigby wounds three, police say https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57018329

That's your initial response that I'm working off...Where do you ref irresponsible parents?

Rows Grower

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Ah yes, because Israel hasn't had a mass shooting in the last 20 years. It's almost as if terrorists or criminals don't follow laws.



Seriously, what's your obsession with Trump? Every second post from you is about him. Trump derangement syndrome anyone?

Where are you getting your “facts” from?

Check back through my posts and see how many are about Donald Trump, maybe you have an obsession with him but I certainly don’t.

I just mentioned I thought he was very brave to say that he would of faced that mass shooter unarmed.

I might mention him again sometime if I feel like it so either brace yourself or put me on ignore if you are going to feel upset about it.

Grizzly 45

Richard308 wrote: »

Well he was wealthy and clever enough to dodge (heal spurs)the draft for Vietnam, so I am sure he would have done the brave thing there.

Same as Sleepy Joe then?? The football player and lifeguard who got his exemption for "asthma";) Or like Bill Clinton who enlisted as an ROTC officer and who managed three deferments.
Can't blame them really back then, anyone who could did avoid the draft.:rolleyes:
They are the "fortunate sons" Born with silver spoons in hand. As Credence Clearwater Revival sang in their song "Fortunate son" back then.

Grizzly 45

Just admit it Rows...You REALLY ARE an admirer and love the guy to bits and support him 100%,but you just can't come out of the closet and admit it yet. Thats ok! We understand...:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Munsterlad102

Rows Grower wrote: »

Where are you getting your “facts” from?

It wasn't a fact, it was sarcasm.

Check back through my posts and see how many are about Donald Trump, maybe you have an obsession with him but I certainly don’t.

I just mentioned I thought he was very brave to say that he would of faced that mass shooter unarmed.

I might mention him again sometime if I feel like it so either brace yourself or put me on ignore if you are going to feel upset about it.

If you're not obsessed with him, then why is your quote from him? I swear, every time I see you post here, half the time it's about Trump. So I ask you again, why do you keep mentioning him?

Richard308

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

It wasn't a fact, it was sarcasm.



If you're not obsessed with him, then why is your quote from him? I swear, every time I see you post here, half the time it's about Trump. So I ask you again, why do you keep mentioning him?

I do enjoy Trump myself. It is pure comedy genius. Better than Larry David in curb your enthusiasm or Ricky Gervais in the office.

My personal favourite was the light inside people and bleach in people to cure them. I still get a giggle from it.

Richard308

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That's your initial response that I'm working off...Where do you ref irresponsible parents?

Don’t know how to link the post to my reply. At 01:16 this morning. Might help you understand the discussion

Rows Grower

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

It wasn't a fact, it was sarcasm.



If you're not obsessed with him, then why is your quote from him? I swear, every time I see you post here, half the time it's about Trump. So I ask you again, why do you keep mentioning him?

I've told you already but I'm afraid you are forming a mental concept or image of something that is not there.

Rows Grower

Richard308 wrote: »

Well he was wealthy and clever enough to dodge (heal spurs)the draft for Vietnam, so I am sure he would have done the brave thing there.

Things could have been so different if he had enlisted.

One of the great "What if's" of the last century.

Munsterlad102

Richard308 wrote: »

I do enjoy Trump myself. It is pure comedy genius. Better than Larry David in curb your enthusiasm or Ricky Gervais in the office.

My personal favourite was the light inside people and bleach in people to cure them. I still get a giggle from it.

Oh of course, and that's fair enough. I'm not saying that you shouldn't make jokes about him, be my guest. My only problem is certain individuals making posts about every little detail about someone.

Munsterlad102

Rows Grower wrote: »

I've told you already but I'm afraid you are forming a mental concept or image of something that is not there.

Forming a mental concept from what? The massive amounts of posts in this thread? Or maybe your quote from Trump. Seems to be an awful coincidence, don't you think?

Richard308

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Israel's seem to have things under control over there with their gun laws, perhaps the USA might learn a thing or two from them if they are serious about preventing mass shootings.

There's also a link in this article where Donald Trump says he would have ran in and faced a mass shooter unarmed, I never knew he was so brave.

https://www.thewrap.com/carried-gun-israel-heres-learned-gun-control/

Israel has many many problems. They behave with impunity, commit war crimes, grab land and evict legal owners.

BattleCorp

Richard308 wrote: »

Israel has many many problems. They behave with impunity, commit war crimes, grab land and evict legal owners.

But not school shootings.

Munsterlad102

Richard308 wrote: »

Israel has many many problems. They behave with impunity, commit war crimes, grab land and evict legal owners.

It's like comparing them to Nazi Germany with their anti smoking campaigns.

Richard308

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

It's like comparing them to Nazi Germany with their anti smoking campaigns.

Could you elaborate on that please? I just said Israel has its own issues. Terrible what nazi Germany did to the Jewish people. But what’s that to do with anything I’ve mentioned.

Munsterlad102

Richard308 wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that please? I just said Israel has its own issues. Terrible what nazi Germany did to the Jewish people. But what’s that to do with anything I’ve mentioned.

What I meant was comparing one aspect of a country (Israel) to another country (America) can be deeply flawed. Israel has many problems, problems much bigger than mass shootings so comparing this aspect of Israeli society to American society is flawed. It would be like comparing Nazi Germany and it's anti smoking campaigns to America or any other country with smoking problems. I hope that makes sense now, I probably should have elaborated more in my initial post.