Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

tudderone

civdef wrote: »

https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=286430617

The poxy eu is about to throw our sport under the bus with their lead ban and you are defending them :rolleyes: ?

civdef

Defending what? I'm reacting to a silly rant about Nazis and communists, yet again.

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

Defending what? I'm reacting to a silly rant about Nazis and communists, yet again.

Well then as such a EU fan you should be able to answer these very simple basic questions on the EU's history?Y

1]What is the Ventotene decleration?
who wrote it and their political affiliations?Where was it written?

2]Please give a brief outline of the former careers and political affiliations of these founders and supporters of the forerunner of the EU?

Walter Hallstein,Paul Henri Spaak ,Walter Funk,Hans Josef Globke, Lady Diana Mosley,[Easy one that]

2a] Which of the above first mooted the idea of a common European currency in what circumstances?

3] Explain what the Frankfurt school of Economics and thought is [and no it is not a building in Frankfurt as one dope of an Irish TD who shall remain nameless claimed]

4]Who founded the above and what was his political affiliation?

5] When and how has the above institute affected the EEC/EC /EU?

6] What is a "Triloge" in the process of the EU l Parliament making law?


When you have googled all of the above come back and tell us it is all Conspiracy or just stay a good little EU citizen in denial/ignorance that doesn't question anything. Your superiors in Brussels would prefer it that way.

civdef

Seriously what's the point here? You want to draw me into a range of disconnected little titbits you reckon support your grand conspiracy notion? This is more suitable for the conspiracy theory forum, honestly.

tudderone

civdef wrote: »

Seriously what's the point here? You want to draw me into a range of disconnected little titbits you reckon support your grand conspiracy notion? This is more suitable for the conspiracy theory forum, honestly.

It doesn't matter. The unelected, unaccountable commission have decided to take a massive swipe at our sport. For what reason ? No one knows as they meet in secret and don't reveal publically what they do discuss, why ? I thought democracy was supposed to be an open and inclusive system ?

Its claimed to be for enviromental reasons, i don't believe that for a second, so whats their motive in banning lead in civilian ammunition ? Us mere proles might never know.

civdef

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

tudderone

civdef wrote: »

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

I don't believe the eu is communist or nazi, but they do dance to the tune of multinationals and big business.

Just because the Americans have banned the use of lead, over actual wetlands only probably, doesn't mean we have to. The Uk ? Well BASC threw their members under the bus there. I know a few shooters over there and they are seriously not happy about it.

I have no problem with a ban over wetland if the wading birds are poisoned by lead shot. But banning it over ranges and agricultural land is a sick joke.

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

Seriously what's the point here? You want to draw me into a range of disconnected little titbits you reckon support your grand conspiracy notion? This is more suitable for the conspiracy theory forum, honestly.

So IOW you know SFA about what you think you know everything about and cant repudiate or are too ignorant to go and look up as it might just upset your world view on how great the EU dictatorship is? Brilliant you are the model EU citizen..:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

How you get to that jump in logic,I really want to hear...

civdef

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So IOW you know SFA about what you think you know everything about and cant repudiate or are too ignorant to go and look up as it might just upset your world view on how great the EU dictatorship is? Brilliant you are the model EU citizen..:rolleyes:

Putting it bluntly, I think some of the conspiracies being presented verge here on insanity. I am not going to get sucked into trying to debate crazy theories - there is no value in it.

I hope I'm not the only one seeing that here.

Grizzly 45

]

tudderone wrote: »

Just because the Americans have banned the use of lead, over actual wetlands only probably, doesn't mean we have to. The Uk ? Well BASC threw their members under the bus there. I know a few shooters over there and they are seriously not happy about it.

Not all over the entire USA. Mostly in wildfowl areas or wildfowl producing areas. Rifle ammo still seems good
USA: Ammunition other than lead required for waterfowl and when hunting with a shotgun (not including slugs) on wildlife refuges and waterfowl production areas.

https://www.longrangeshooting.org/articles/state-regulations-concerning-the-use-of-lead-free-ammunition

Uinseann_16

civdef wrote: »

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

Certain parts of the US saying Americans is very misleading... A EU style lead ban would go down like well a lead balloon in the US

tudderone

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Certain parts of the US saying Americans is very misleading... A EU style lead ban would go down like well a lead balloon in the US

I see what you did there

civdef

tudderone wrote: »

I don't believe the eu is communist or nazi, but they do dance to the tune of multinationals and big business.

Every government dances to the tune of multinationals and big business - they're a big part of what pays for government. Not sure big business is pushing the lead ban though - I suspect the environmental lobby is more behind this.

It's not just lead either, substances called PFAS are used, among other things, to make very effective firefighting foam. It's being phased out/ banned at the moment because it is also a very persistent harmful chemical. The difference here is that there are workable alternatives coming on stream, and a decent switchover time is being allowed.

Lead is a ****ty chemical to put into the environment - anyone who tries to argue that is tripping frankly - the harm it does has been known for centuries. restrictions on it are inevitable. It would be an awful lot fairer if more time was given to develop viable alternatives though - and there should be no exemptions for military use - if it has to be phased out, that should apply to all users.

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

Putting it bluntly, I think some of the conspiracies being presented verge here on insanity. I am not going to get sucked into trying to debate crazy theories - there is no value in it.

I hope I'm not the only one seeing that here.

Why are you so scared to refute them if they are conspiracy theories?. Apart from claiming such?The simple fact is if you were to actually answer what I posed is it would destroy your argument.:)

civdef

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Certain parts of the US saying Americans is very misleading... A EU style lead ban would go down like well a lead balloon in the US

It was brought in by the Federal Government (under Bush 41), and applies to designated areas across the whole country. Steel shot is far more prevalent over there than here up to now.

tudderone

civdef wrote: »

Every government dances to the tune of multinationals and big business - they're a big part of what pays for government. Not sure big business is pushing the lead ban though - I suspect the environmental lobby is more behind this.

It's not just lead either, substances called PFAS are used, among other things, to make very effective firefighting foam. It's being phased out/ banned at the moment because it is also a very persistent harmful chemical. The difference here is that there are workable alternatives coming on stream, and a decent switchover time is being allowed.

Lead is a ****ty chemical to put into the environment - anyone who tries to argue that is tripping frankly - the harm it does has been known for centuries. restrictions on it are inevitable. It would be an awful lot fairer if more time was given to develop viable alternatives though - and there should be no exemptions for military use - if it has to be phased out, that should apply to all users.

The eu says lead posioning kills 1 million birds a year. But cats kill 6 million, to put things in perspective. If they banned ownership of cats, they would save six times the amount of birds.

civdef

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Why are you so scared to refute them if they are conspiracy theories?. Apart from claiming such?The simple fact is if you were to actually answer what I posed is it would destroy your argument.:)

I think you're posting nonsense on this subject. You see me as defending the status quo and tacitly supporting this huge massive tyranny you've discovered involving both the communists and nazis controlling the EU decades after both their systems collapsed.

Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion on this one, I suspect, and I'm not going to try.

Uinseann_16

civdef wrote: »

It was brought in by the Federal Government (under Bush 41), and applies to designated areas across the whole country. Steel shot is far more prevalent over there than here up to now.

Designated areas not the whole country and not a ban on the sale of it as the EU style would essentially cause , simply not for use on game in certain areas
Extremely misleading way to describe it

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
Speak for yourself first...;) And I'll do as I please as I am not beholden to the likes of you.:)

These were you rules not mine. You’re complaining about double standard, while rolling out the double standards. Surely you see the irony.

What Trump said.Please point out anywhere there is a mention of drinking any sort of disinfectant in there?

Are you really clinging to the fact he said, in that instance, injection not drinking?

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

These were you rules not mine. You’re complaining about double standard, while rolling out the double standards. Surely you see the irony.


Are you really clinging to the fact he said, in that instance, injection not drinking?

Who said about anyone making "rules" here?We are not in a formal debating society.:rolleyes:And i I am quoting exactly what he said...Words have meanings as you well know!So iat least have the courtsey of trying to quote the man properly.

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Who said about anyone making "rules" here?We are not in a formal debating society.:rolleyes:

No idea what your talking about here? What debate?
I’m referring to you posts. That I quoted.
Asking if will you hold others to that standards.
It a rhetorical question. We both know that.

And i I am quoting exactly what he said...Words have meanings as you well know!So iat least have the courtsey of trying to quote the man properly.

Quoting him directly doesn’t help your position.
That whole speech made him look like a buffoon. His words don’t need to be misquoted. (Didn’t you bring up the comments?)

Which is why he (and possibly posters here) tried to claim it was a joke. Clearly it wasn’t, so that attempt to deflect after the facts highlights that he knows it was dumb.
Can’t believe that has to be pointing out a year later.

Cass

Was watching Joe bumbling his way through his first presser. The usual channels covered well for him by editing out the stuttering, mumbling and at times incoherent ramblings where he actually seemed to get so utterly lost that half way through he just stopped talking.

As for the "cheat sheet". No problem with anyone using one, but given his mental state would his staff not have simply given him pictures of the "journalists" he was to call on rather than a full book of them all and only marking the ones he was to call on? Seems poor planning.

Was also watching Senator Ted Cruz's livestream at the border facility where a biden staffer was actively trying to stop him from videoing the facilities having already turned away the press and denying them access. This comes on the back of his [Biden's] "softball" interview by a PBS "journalist". He warned warned by his own staff about reversing existing and new policies (Obama's and Trump's) on border issues but he went ahead with them regardless and some of his staff now say they may have to revert back to previous border policies to stem the flow.

As usual his [Biden] own party maintain their track record on double standards with Cruz (mockingly) inviting AOC to come down and pose for photos as she did when this was an evil act under Trump.

tudderone

Yup, Biden says its ok for people to come to America, because thats what America is all about. Then when asked by a journalist if created a pull, he says "oh no we've deported thousands back, tens of thousands" ! Talk about mixed messages.

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

No idea what your talking about here? What debate?
I’m referring to you posts. That I quoted.
Asking if will you hold others to that standards.
It a rhetorical question. We both know that.


Quoting him directly doesn’t help your position.
That whole speech made him look like a buffoon. His words don’t need to be misquoted. (Didn’t you bring up the comments?)

Which is why he (and possibly posters here) tried to claim it was a joke. Clearly it wasn’t, so that attempt to deflect after the facts highlights that he knows it was dumb.
Can’t believe that has to be pointing out a year later.

Whatever ....

Grizzly 45

Of course our state propaganda machine AKA RTE gave us the clip of the Fall Guy waffling on about how his Irish ancestors left Ireland in a coffin ship....
RTE playing to our national inferiority complex again and playing the old record of Dems good , Republican bad that is hardwired into the Irish mentality since Kennedy.:rolleyes:

So which one left for Amerikay there Joe
Was it the fellah who worked as a surveyor for the British army?

Or the [whip] "crackers" with slaves in Maryland:D

https://cloverchronicle.com/2020/06/26/joe-bidens-ancestor-reportedly-owned-16-black-slaves/

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

I think you're posting nonsense on this subject. You see me as defending the status quo and tacitly supporting this huge massive tyranny you've discovered involving both the communists and nazis controlling the EU decades after both their systems collapsed.

Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion on this one, I suspect, and I'm not going to try.

No "discovery" there mate...Its common knowledge and historically proven fact.But as they say "A mind is like a parachute...They both work best when open".:)

civdef

It's not working...

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Of course our state propaganda machine AKA RTE gave us the clip of the Fall Guy waffling on about how his Irish ancestors left Ireland in a coffin ship....
RTE playing to our national inferiority complex again and playing the old record of Dems good , Republican bad that is hardwired into the Irish mentality since Kennedy.:rolleyes:

So which one left for Amerikay there Joe
Was it the fellah who worked as a surveyor for the British army?

Or the [whip] "crackers" with slaves in Maryland:D

https://cloverchronicle.com/2020/06/26/joe-bidens-ancestor-reportedly-owned-16-black-slaves/

I haven't watched RTE and their "Stars" for years. It mainly consisted of tiresome aussy soaps and TD's getting an easy time of it on primetime or whatever its called now. I did tune in for the stitch-up of Irish shooters on it and all it did was get my blood pressure up.

Can you imagine if the Trumps had slaves ? You'd never hear the end of it. I know for a fact that one of Trumps great grandparents, a German immigrant, ran what was basically a mobile saloon/knocking-shop during one of the gold rushes.

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

It's not working...

Then skydiving aint the sport for you!:)