Will there ever be a time where children's school homework be abolished?

Billy86

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Have you ever considered passing on some of these life skills to your kids yourself instead of expecting schools to do absolutely everything?

Notice how he said 'instead of', and not 'as well as'.

TheDriver

They get most of these in TY but remember Home Ec does cooking, business studies and maths do accounts, taxation, interest etc. An education should be rounded, practiced and prepare students with the skills to tackle life. Specifc skills such as cooking etc can be easily found whereas being able to cope is more difficult to master. School nowadays is a far cry from 80s and 90s when most on boards had their experiences

Andy From Sligo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Have you ever considered passing on some of these life skills to your kids yourself instead of expecting schools to do absolutely everything?

yep , have considered and have done alongside what they lean at school - but since when have schools consulted with parents what the parents feel would be beneficial to teach their children when they are in the schools care?

Last I checked it was compulsory to send your children to school (or home school them, but thats hardly practicable with most people) so the least that you could ask is that the school will actually teach them what you think will be of use to them for when the time comes they have to leave school and live in the real world.

Many a time my children have asked me numerous things and I have educated them about it at home and I have often found myself saying "did they not teach you that in school?" - and I think there is something drastically wrong with the school curriculum if they are focused on not teaching the basics.

I mean come on I am a parent , I am not qualified in everything (or come to think of it I am not a qualified teacher at all full stop) so say if I am feeding them some uneducated bullsh!t what then .. thats why I sent them to school to hopefully learn about things!

Beasty

TheDriver wrote: »

They get most of these in TY but remember Home Ec does cooking, business studies and maths do accounts, taxation, interest etc. An education should be rounded, practiced and prepare students with the skills to tackle life. Specifc skills such as cooking etc can be easily found whereas being able to cope is more difficult to master. School nowadays is a far cry from 80s and 90s when most on boards had their experiences

I have no doubt there have been improvements over that time, but in my view the "competition" introduced has benefitted those who already have the relevant academic skills. Internationally universities are trying to entice fee paying students around the world. That itself results in Governments trying to get their countries up the "league table".

Now I benefitted from a university education, but it's the maths skills I learnt at O level (in the UK) that have seen me through life and into an incredibly interesting and well paid career. Likewise I did my English language to O level standard then left that all behind. The stuff (sciences, and a couple of maths subjects) I did at A level and the degree I got in maths have been of little if any benefit other than being a step onto a training contract which itself delivered my career. However I was probably as academically capable of starting that training contract aged 16 as I was aged 22. I'm not saying my time at University was wasted - it was pretty much on the academic front but it did teach me a hell of a lot in terms of life skills.

As I've already said there's definitely a place for the academics but in my view they are very much in the minority and there should be much more focus on those who will never need that level of academic achievement, delivering more practical skills within schools

Andy From Sligo

time is one of the most precious things ... a school day is a very precious thing, you can teach a lot of things to an awful lot of students in one day - but the most inportant thing is *what* 'useful' things they are being taught will it really help them out after their education is over and done with, when they have to live (and most of the time on little money) , will it help them get a job? , will it help them drive (so that maybe they could get a job which involves driving such as a rep/ van driver/commercial vehicle driver) ? - will learning hours/weeks/months/years on special events that happened centuries ago really help the majoritory of students when they leave school? - will complicated maths equasions help the majority of people when they leave school.

Dont overload the students with too much information all in one go is all I am saying whether it be in school hours or with homework. Teach the students important up to date skills and how to live a life as best and as economical as they can - once the students have grasped all this then maybe other subjects can be moved on to, or if students want more in particular subjects I am sure them particular students can get this by further education (such as college or university courses) later on in life

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Didnt you once tell me you thought children should be denied any chance to express themselves while being educated? Isn't that the same thing?

(Or was that last post genuine? Sometimes I misread sarcasm...)

No.Just that I thought School uniforms were a good idea.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No.Just that I thought School uniforms were a good idea.

No, you said a little bit mroe than that and it in a thread about the Irish language, not uniforms. Sorry to drag up old posts, but I need some form of consistancy im order to debate with you.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Students and children can have opinions but they have no right for their opinions to be listened to because they are not old enough to vote and form policy, parents tell their children what to do and they pretty much have to follow it util they're 18 .That is the way it works all over the world, but maybe we should allow students to freely choose whether they should attend school and and decide what subjects they wish to do, I'm sure that would really improve things and I'm sure the students wouldn't take advantage of it.

Now that definitley sounds to me like you want obediant robots until the age of 18.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, you said a little bit mroe than that and it in a thread about the Irish language, not uniforms. Sorry to drag up old posts, but I need some form of consistancy im order to debate with you.



Now that definitley sounds to me like you want obediant robots until the age of 18.

Adults always make decisions for children because they tend to be more responsible than children and know what is best for them.

Without having rules nothing would get done in life.

There is a world of a difference between expecting people to follow the rules of an institution they join and wanting people doing nothing in school except preparing for a job from the age of 4, there is a happy middle ground between having some structure and having too much structure. If people don't like the idea of irish being compulsory then they can lobby the department of education to remove it and children in general don't have a right to have their opinions listened to because they are not old enough that's why we don't let children vote.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Adults always make decisions for children because they tend to be more responsible than children and know what is best for them.

Without having rules nothing would get done in life.

There is a world of a difference between expecting people to follow the rules of an institution they join and wanting people doing nothing in school except preparing for a job from the age of 4, there is a happy middle ground between having some structure and having too much structure. If people don't like the idea of irish being compulsory then they can lobby the department of education to remove it and children in general don't have a right to have their opinions listened to because they are not old enough that's why we don't let children vote.

Adults do not make EVERY decision for their kids.

I'm not saying they should make decisions on a national level, but on a personal level, surely they should be at least listened to? Otherwise, you're just programming a robot.

I'm also of the opinoin that teenagers will tell you exactly what the problems like homework/course curriculum as they are the ones who are effected by it most - and if you want to solve a problem then you really have to understand what the problem is. I'm in my early 40s - I'm not going to be able to tell you what the issues effecting teenage students are better than a teenager in school.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Adults do not make EVERY decision for their kids.

I'm not saying they should make decisions on a national level, but on a personal level, surely they should be at least listened to? Otherwise, you're just programming a robot.

I'm also of the opinoin that teenagers will tell you exactly what the problems like homework/course curriculum as they are the ones who are effected by it most - and if you want to solve a problem then you really have to understand what the problem is. I'm in my early 40s - I'm not going to be able to tell you what the issues effecting teenage students are better than a teenager in school.

Do students have an alternative to the curriculum. Everyone can complain about and say what is wrong with it but I doubt most students can say what would be better than what already exists because they don't actually have enough life experience to be saying what the curriculum should be doing.

I could have pointed out what I thought were the problems with it when I was in school (same as everyone else in school who complained) but it would have been just complaints and I wouldn't have had sufficient experience to say what would actually be better.

konrad2000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Dingus McGee View Post

There is a world of a difference between expecting people to follow the rules of an institution they join and wanting people doing nothing in school except preparing for a job from the age of 4, there is a happy middle ground between having some structure and having too much structure.


Perhaps this is the main problem with education in general. Creating someone who is fit to carry out a job, or creating a well attuned individual who can think for themselves.

Unfortunately most jobs out there require the former. It's a problem that probably has more to do with what type of schools that are out there. For anyone not interested in studying the former is the best option, the latter requires a lot more financial resources.

Personally, I would like to see some kind of curriculum change leading up to the leaving cert.
Perhaps all of the creative stuff should be dealt with up until junior cert, and then the more analytical side developed for the leaving cert. Also, I think, at least for the leaving cert, there should be as much focus on projects as on homework; especially if you consider that anyone doing a leaving cert will most likely attend college.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Do students have an alternative to the curriculum. Everyone can complain about and say what is wrong with it but I doubt most students can say what would be better than what already exists because they don't actually have enough life experience to be saying what the curriculum should be doing.

Within the curriculum. There always options within the structure.

If a student cannot voice a criticism without it being dismissed as a "complaint", this is a serious problem!

I could have pointed out what I thought were the problems with it when I was in school (same as everyone else in school who complained) but it would have been just complaints and I wouldn't have had sufficient experience to say what would actually be better.

Are you talking about complaining or criticism? If complaints, then they should have taught you how to make constructive criticisim. If the later, this is my point: no-one listens, nothing changes.

Again: do you want robots following pre-programmed instructions, or do you want critical, opinionated young adults? Not much point in having the later if no one listens and it's not something ythat just magically happens on the night of their 18th brthday. Ths is eactly the attitude that "turn every child into a mindless robot chained to a job before they even become adults" as you put it.

Biscuitus

Homework was the main reason I lost so much interest in school and spent my time daydreaming out the window. Being in school for 8:45, home at 16:20, food, shower, relax for a bit and then stuck with homework until 8 or 9 just left me mentally exhausted. I would have been much more productive and attentive with just school.

The whole curriculum needs a big overhaul but being Ireland that will never happen.

josip

Biscuitus wrote: »

Homework was the main reason I lost so much interest in school and spent my time daydreaming out the window. Being in school for 8:45, home at 16:20, food, shower, relax for a bit and then stuck with homework until 8 or 9 just left me mentally exhausted. I would have been much more productive and attentive with just school.

The whole curriculum needs a big overhaul but being Ireland that will never happen.

Excuses children, all I'm hearing are excuses!

Wanderer78

Time to ditch this nonsense, we 're indoctrinating kids with the idea that 'work' is more important than life!

Feisar

I don't know if it's been mentioned already, primary school it used to be fine as the same teacher would be dishing it out however in secondary having seven different teachers left it unbalanced.

Feisar

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I personally think schools are not teaching the right subjects most of the time - and yes I know a lot wont agree with me , but it is my personal opinion.

Schools (secondary) should be focusing more on teaching students how to be self sufficient for when they leave school , get the student clued up on how to cook properly, manage household budgets , basic repair of cars and the basics of repairing items in the home, basic first aid like cpr and all that - even basic driving lessons! and loads of other real life experiences

To be fair those are life skills that should be taught at home.

Wanderer78

Feisar wrote:

I don't know if it's been mentioned already, primary school it used to be fine as the same teacher would be dishing it out however in secondary having seven different teachers left it unbalanced.

The only 'dishing out' that should be done after school should be a dinner, preferably by parents

Wanderer78

Feisar wrote:

To be fair those are life skills that should be taught at home.

I completely agree with Andy, many households require both parents to work full time jobs to maintain a home, leaving very little time to interact with their kids, these essential life skills should be taught at school

AudreyHepburn

There is nothing wrong with homework, in fact I would suggest that you couldn't get through school and would never learn anything without it.

OP if you can't get your children to sit down and do it then the problem lies with you not them, nor the school, nor the work itself.

There will be plenty of time when the homework is done for recreation and bonding. And if you can't find the time to spend with your children after homework then it's yourself you need to take a good look at.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I completely agree with Andy, many households require both parents to work full time jobs to maintain a home, leaving very little time to interact with their kids, these essential life skills should be taught at school

Let me see if I got this right.

On one hand you argue that there's more to life than work, on the other hand you use work as an excuse to not teach your children the basics of looking after themselves.

Yeah, that makes sense alright. :rolleyes:

Wanderer78

JayZeus wrote:

Let me see if I got this right.

JayZeus wrote:

On one hand you argue that there's more to life than work, on the other hand you use work as an excuse to not teach your children the basics of looking after themselves.

JayZeus wrote:

Yeah, that makes sense alright.

Not at all, what we're teaching kids is that not only do we have to spend all day at school(work), but they must also bring it home with them, and failing to do this could increase the chances of failure in life. What a load of nonsense, home time should be prioritized for socialising, exercising, relaxing with family and friends etc. Our educational system is preparing kids to be obedient worker drones not happy envolved citizens

valoren

Intermittent projects rather than daily grind of homework would be more effective.
You have a syllabus for the year.

Every 3 months there is a deadline to work towards where you are given a project which incorporates all the work covered in the previous 3 months or Term. So as you're learning during the current term, you are actively working, at your own pace at home, a project which revises everything learned in the last term, where you apply the knowledge and skills learned then.

That way you are also learning time management, planning etc and not just the daily nuisance of taking your work 'home' with you. You then get graded on your project work.

josip

valoren wrote: »

Every 3 months there is a deadline to work towards where you are given a project which incorporates all the work covered in the previous 3 months or Term. So as you're learning during the current term, you are actively working, at your own pace at home, a project which revises everything learned in the last term, where you apply the knowledge and skills learned then.
.

A 3 week sprint would prepare them better for the real world.

LirW

josip wrote: »

A 3 week sprint would prepare them better for the real world.

First they announce 3 months, then shorten it to three weeks and then they receive a call from the teacher at 11pm that it needs to be finished by lunchtime the next day.
That would be real world.

Andy From Sligo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with homework, in fact I would suggest that you couldn't get through school and would never learn anything without it.

OP if you can't get your children to sit down and do it then the problem lies with you not them, nor the school, nor the work itself.

There will be plenty of time when the homework is done for recreation and bonding. And if you can't find the time to spend with your children after homework then it's yourself you need to take a good look at.

Bunkum! (or however you spell it) - your also tarring all parents/families with the same brush. Some parents can bond with their children without having to sit down with them to help them do their homework .. to be honest maybe more so that parents bond more when they are playing with their kids rather than sitting down with the chore of homework (and i dont want to hear the old line of it needent be a chore and you can make homework fun!) load of bollix

anyway - you assume again, My kids are all grown up in their 20's now

Andy From Sligo

how many hours are the kids in school these days, what is it something like 9am - 4.30pm for secondary school kids or something? ... and they can learn all they need to learn about something in all that amount of time? ... for years?

begs the question if they are in for that amount of hours in a day and cannot learn all what they need to learn I dont know about parents having to look at themselves it looks like the school curriculum needs badly looking at and a more effective use of time or cutting out meaningless lessons and replacing them with others! - or shorten times on some lessons to fit more lessons into the day.

Thing is school homework has not moved with the times (or rather it has and has gone more intense) - when school homework was introduced all them years ago I should imagine parents (mum stayed at home and did the housework, dad went to work 8am-6pm, sorry but thats the reality of what it was, not being sexist or anything) but these days now both parents are holding down at least 2 jobs a lot of the time just to live and pay bills or give their families a better life or holidays and yet people are still saying that its the parents faults for not sitting down with the kids to help them do their homework - cop yerselves on and live in the real world! not in the 'ideal' world! ...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

how many hours are the kids in school these days, what is it something like 9am - 4.30pm for secondary school kids or something? ... and they can learn all they need to learn about something in all that amount of time? ... for years?

begs the question if they are in for that amount of hours in a day and cannot learn all what they need to learn I dont know about parents having to look at themselves it looks like the school curriculum needs badly looking at and a more effective use of time or cutting out meaningless lessons and replacing them with others! - or shorten times on some lessons to fit more lessons into the day.

Again: homework =/= study.

Thing is school homework has not moved with the times (or rather it has and has gone more intense) - when school homework was introduced all them years ago I should imagine parents (mum stayed at home and did the housework, dad went to work 8am-6pm, sorry but thats the reality of what it was, not being sexist or anything) but these days now both parents are holding down at least 2 jobs a lot of the time just to live and pay bills or give their families a better life or holidays and yet people are still saying that its the parents faults for not sitting down with the kids to help them do their homework - cop yerselves on and live in the real world! not in the 'ideal' world! ...

Parenrs should be there to help if needed, not do every step. Part of the point of it is to practice something already learnt, and to learn independently.

nice_guy80

All I can think of is light touch parenting
It's very reflective of the way irish society has gone

Parents want the schools to do all the work and have less to do

I've huge sympathy for parents though, with long working hours, commutes and childcare as the only option

In a school setting you can tell the children who spend lots of time in childcare instead of time with the parents at home

Andy From Sligo

I do remember when my children bought home loads of Irish/Gaelge to do as homework , it really was a lot and we are talking at Primary school level as well.

Both my children born in Ireland, so they had to do it - both us parents hardly knowing a word of Irish and they wanted us to sit down and go through it with them.

Both us parents English (well wife's parents were both Irish) , only knew about 3 Irish words for things at the time lol, huge different for kids who bought their homework home to both their Irish parents who would have learned Irish as they were growing up and could most probably even speak it fluently.

I suppose the other side of the argument some say on here is that we should have done an Irish language course or something so that we could sit down and go through the irish homework with them - anyway , we didnt . So thats at least 2 things we could help them with , their Irish and Irish language homework and most of their maths (because the even the maths homework they bought home was so complicated!) and neither of us parents were great at maths in school.