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Why Irish language still exists?

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    #182
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Been over this: you dont have right to force it on people who dont want it, and it wasn't done at Independence because people knew that.

    Obviously I don't as I'm not the head of the department of education but the government forces people to do things they may not want to.

    I was forced to study Maths in school even though I didn't want to.People are forced everyday to obey laws or else they can end up in jail.

    No point trying to refute this as it is a fact of life all across the world that people may have to do something they don't want to, the same can apply in the education system.


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    #183
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    maudgonner wrote: »
    The single biggest problem with this is that there is nowhere near the amount of teachers with the fluency required.

    I know primary school teachers are meant to be competent in Irish, the sad truth is that many of them are shockingly poor at it.


    Give them a few years to sharpen up and I'd say they wouldn't be too bad.

    Also it would get rid of the need for the language to be compulsory at secondary level which seems to be one of the greatest injustices in the world according to some people in this country.


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    #184
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,188 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Obviously I don't as I'm not the head of the department of education but the government forces people to do things they may not want to.

    I was forced to study Maths in school even though I didn't want to.People are forced everyday to obey laws or else they can end up in jail.etc etc.

    No point trying to refute this as it is a fact of life all across the world that people may have to do something they don't want to, the same can apply in the education system.

    Are you advocating totalitarianism here? Because when you compare people making personal choices in their everyday lives with people disobeying law and order, it certainly sounds like it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #185
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Are you advocating totalitarianism here? Because when you compare people making personal choices in their everyday lives with people disobeying law and order, it certainly sounds like it.

    Once a student steps into a classroom they don't have a choice over what they study.The department of education decides that.

    People don't have a choice about whether they attend school or not either.

    Education at primary school level is not a personal choice, children have too attend and they have to follow the curriculum.


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    #186
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,188 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Once a student steps into a classroom they don't have a choice over what they study.The department of education decides that.

    People don't have a choice about whether they attend school or not either.

    Education at primary school level is not a personal choice, children have too attend and they have to follow the curriculum.

    Not what you said here.
    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Obviously I don't as I'm not the head of the department of education but the government forces people to do things they may not want to.

    I was forced to study Maths in school even though I didn't want to.People are forced everyday to obey laws or else they can end up in jail.

    No point trying to refute this as it is a fact of life all across the world that people may have to do something they don't want to, the same can apply in the education system.

    ... so you haven't asnwered my question about the totalitarianist angle of law/opinion. Do you feel that students should even have an opinion?

    Even if you don't, you have to consider that there are a lot of adults, long since past the point of finishing school, who are happy enough speaking monolingual English, and happy that their kids grow up learning English rather than Irish. They don't care for an Irish-speaking populace. And while you may not respect kids, you have to respect adults and their choices.

    Also, kids are not legally required to go to school: homeschooling is a legal option in Ireland.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #187
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The problem is the implementation was completely botched by a useless education system that failed everyone

    No, the education system is only a small part of it. The primary fact is that Irish has not been adopted as the first language by people in their everyday life. The people here have chosen English as a language over Irish.


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    #188
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Berserker wrote: »
    No, the education system is only a small part of it. The primary fact is that Irish has not been adopted as the first language by people in their everyday life. The people here have chosen English as a language over Irish.


    Because Irish was discouraged by our former imperial overlords.


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    #189
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Not what you said here.



    ... so you haven't asnwered my question about the totalitarianist angle of law/opinion. Do you feel that students should even have an opinion?

    Even if you don't, you have to consider that there are a lot of adults, long since past the point of finishing school, who are happy enough speaking monolingual English, and happy that their kids grow up learning English rather than Irish. They don't care for an Irish-speaking populace. And while you may not respect kids, you have to respect adults and their choices.

    Also, kids are not legally required to go to school: homeschooling is a legal option in Ireland.

    Children shouldn't have an opinion on it because they aren't old enough to have an opinion.Adults make children's decisions for them until they are old enough to make their own decisions.That is the way it is all across the world.If the department of education decides what students must do in schools then children must accept it whether they like it or not.Again I reiterate people are forced to follow rules/laws because there is a punishment for not following.That is the way society operates all over the world and there is nothing people can do about it if a policy is agreed upon by those in charge of an institution then you either have to follow it or try and change the system, but as long as a body has the authority to make up rules/laws people have to go by them if they want anything to do with said institution.


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    #190
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,188 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Because Irish was discouraged by our former imperial overlords.

    Riiiight....

    And over the last century or so that we've been independent, it's still the fault of the Empire...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #191
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Because Irish was discouraged by our former imperial overlords.

    Yawn!! You've had more than enough time to rejuvenate your beloved national language.


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    #192
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Riiiight....

    And over the last century or so that we've been independent, it's still the fault of the Empire...

    No it's our own fault because we didn't prioritize teaching it properly as part of our newly independent country.The reason it faded away in the first place is because of what I said above.The reason english has gained prominence in the first place is because of colonisation.


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    #193
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,188 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Children shouldn't have an opinion on it because they aren't old enough to have an opinion.Adults make children's decisions for them until they are old enough to make their own decisions.That is the way it is all across the world.If the department of education decides what students must do in schools then children must accept it whether they like it or not.Again I reiterate people are forced to follow rules/laws because there is a punishment for not following.That is the way society operates all over the world and there is nothing people can do about it if a policy is agreed upon by those in charge of an institution then you either have to follow it or try and change the system, but as long as a body has the authority to make up rules/laws people have to go by them if they want anything to do with said institution.

    If you don't think students should not have opinions, and if you don't see the difference between laws and opinoins, then I was obviously right with the totalitarian angle: you clearly see people as just mere robots to further a spcecific nationalistic goal or be punished, so we agree to disagree. I find it very arrogant and disprespectful to said students, though and it's a shame to hear it.

    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    No it's our own fault because we didn't prioritize teaching it properly as part of our newly independent country.The reason it faded away in the first place is because of what I said above.The reason english has gained prominence in the first place is because of colonisation.

    Again, not what you said in the post above. Either it's those dirty "imperial overlords" or it's the State not prioritising it and teachign it properly.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #194
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Berserker wrote: »
    Yawn!! You've had more than enough time to rejuvenate your beloved national language.

    It would have been rejuvenated if it had been done properly by the government but it wasn't.


    What is really yawn inducing is the cultural cringe that exists in this country.


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    #195
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    If you don't think students should not have opinions, and if you don't see the difference between laws and opinoins, then I was obviously right with the totalitarian angle: you clearly see people as just mere robots to further a spcecific nationalistic goal or be punished, so we agree to disagree. I find it very arrogant and disprespectful to said students, though and it's a shame to hear it.




    Again, not what you said in the post above. Either it's those dirty "imperial overlords" or it's the State not prioritising it and teachign it properly.

    It's both.

    Prior to independence, it was Britains fault.Post independence it's our own fault for teaching the language badly and not giving it more of a priority.


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    #196
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    If you don't think students should not have opinions, and if you don't see the difference between laws and opinoins, then I was obviously right with the totalitarian angle: you clearly see people as just mere robots to further a spcecific nationalistic goal or be punished, so we agree to disagree. I find it very arrogant and disprespectful to said students, though and it's a shame to hear it.

    Students and children can have opinions but they have no right for their opinions to be listened to because they are not old enough to vote and form policy, parents tell their children what to do and they pretty much have to follow it util they're 18 .That is the way it works all over the world, but maybe we should allow students to freely choose whether they should attend school and and decide what subjects they wish to do, I'm sure that would really improve things and I'm sure the students wouldn't take advantage of it.


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    #197
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,188 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Students and children can have opinions but they have no right for their opinions to be listened to because they are not old enough to vote and form policy, parents tell their children what to do and they pretty much have to follow it util they're 18. That is the way it works all over the world, but maybe we should allow students to freely choose whether they should attend school and and decide what subjects they wish to do, I'm sure that would really improve things and I'm sure the students wouldn't take advantage of it.

    Pretty much what I said: it depends on what's more important to you: the individual or the state. You chose state, I disagreed. Pretty much where the discussion ends.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #198
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Pretty much what I said: it depends on what's more important to you: the individual or the state. You chose state, I disagreed. Pretty much where the discussion ends.

    What the hell are you on about in all fairness.

    I said people have to follow rules/laws set down by the state .

    I never said people weren't entitled to an opinion.I just said when it comes down to it the state decides what the rules/laws are and people have to follow or they get punished.


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    #199
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,188 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    What the hell are you on about in all fairness.

    I said people have to follow rules/laws set down by the state .

    I never said people weren't entitled to an opinion.I just said when it comes down to it the state decides what the rules/laws are and people have to follow or they get punished.

    Never accused you of saying it: I asked if you did, you said that people under 18 should not be listened to; and I made it clear that I disagree with you and find your opinion disrespectful to people under 18 and their opinions.

    There's no need to continue this. Good Night.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #200
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    How do they know the word was borrowed from French and not English after English had borrowed it from French?

    ? Word comes from Classical Greek - kinema = movement


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    #201
    mcgrath1992
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭mcgrath1992


    i dont think irish is forced on anyone in this country , maybe in some schools but certainly not every school , irish is non compulsory in maybe half the schools in ireland , i was giving the choice along with countless others not to do it for junior and leaving cert anyway and same in national school , not everyone has to do it so its a choice subject....I only finished my leaving cert 4 years ago so maybe they made it non compulsory by time i started national school but I dont know , i didnt have to do it so it must be an option in the curriculum


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    #202
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    mcgrath1992 wrote: »
    i dont think irish is forced on anyone in this country , maybe in some schools but certainly not every school , irish is non compulsory in maybe half the schools in ireland , i was giving the choice along with countless others not to do it for junior and leaving cert anyway and same in national school , not everyone has to do it so its a choice subject....I only finished my leaving cert 4 years ago so maybe they made it non compulsory by time i started national school but I dont know , i didnt have to do it so it must be an option in the curriculum

    I believe it's a requirement in most NUI college courses to have either a pass in Irish or an excemption - which is ridiculous.


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    #203
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,915 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I think irish is kind of cool and would love to be able to speak it....but can barely master english

    Which is most of the population, well-meaning but clearly not bothered. :D

    We should make kids learn it, but me....meh...


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    #204
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    nuac wrote: »
    ? Word comes from Classical Greek - kinema = movement
    By that logic we could track the word back to PIE.

    My point is which language did it enter welsh from.


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