Gardai want ban on people photographing and recording them on duty

Reati

gordongekko wrote: »

Thats 2 miles in Garda figures

Best line yet /thread!

0ph0rce0

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Where are you getting that from? The motion is quoted on The Journal. It very clearly states that the offence is to take and publish the photo with the intent to identify. They arent separate things.

But when you do go to take a photo or video they will be separate things.

If you think a guard is going to say say yeah go ahead and film away just don't post that on Facebook your silly.

As soon as your phone comes out they will be all over you. Tons of them don't even know the law. This won't be any different.

To them it will be an outright ban on all photos or recordings no matter what your intention is.

Widdershins

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That wasn't what happened - they were making a private joke, as they were entitled to, about the fact the woman in question believed they were going to rape her. They had no intention of actually doing so.

This case is a prime example of why I hope this ban is enforced - these Gardai were unfairly reprimanded over what was a private joke among st colleagues.

I was prepared to believe I was seriously misled about this but have you seen the transcript? If that's what you call a private joke they are entitled to make, I don't know what to say to you.

''THE TRANSCRIPT:
Sgt. A “Who is them two lassies – do you know the two of them?â€
Garda B “I don’t know the second one, the first one is (refers to Ms. A) with blonde hairâ€.
Garda C “She was up on the tractor earlier onâ€.
Sgt. A “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name againâ€.
Garda B “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the **** she isâ€.
Garda C “Is she a Yank?â€
Garda B “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anywayâ€.
Garda D “Sounds like a Yank or Canadianâ€.
Garda B “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration ****ing on herâ€.
Sgt. A “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrestedâ€.
Garda B “And deportedâ€.
Sgt. A “And rapedâ€.
Garda B “I wouldn’t go that far yet, she was living down at that crusty camp, ****’s sake, you never know what you might getâ€.
Laughter
Sgt. A “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape youâ€.
Garda C “Hold it there, give me your name and address, there, I’ll Facebook youâ€.
Laughter
Sgt. A “Or I’ll definitely rape youâ€.
Garda C “Will you be me friend on Facebook?â€

http://www.thejournal.ie/transcript-of-the-corrib-rape-tape-427655-Apr2012/

Little CuChulainn

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

But when you do go to take a photo or video they will be separate things.

If you think a guard is going to say say yeah go ahead and film away just don't post that on Facebook your silly.

As soon as your phone comes out they will be all over you. Tons of them don't even know the law. This won't be any different.

To them it will be an outright ban on all photos or recordings no matter what your intention is.

So your argument is that the law shouldn't be passed in case Gardaí don't understand it?

0ph0rce0

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So your argument is that the law shouldn't be passed in case Gardaí don't understand it?

No it shouldn't be passed because they will abuse it.

Little CuChulainn

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

No it shouldn't be passed because they will abuse it.

Sure why pass any law then?

0ph0rce0

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Sure why pass any law then?

I'm talking about this law. They want an outright ban no matter what way it's worded.

Ulysses Gaze

It would be insanity to allow this type of law be passed given how widespread the corruption is within the Guards.

Little CuChulainn

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I'm talking about this law. They want an outright ban no matter what way it's worded.

Now you are just lying.

diomed

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

This is the wording of the motion

"introduce a criminal offence of photographing or otherwise capturing an image, moving or otherwise, of a member of An Garda Si­ochna in the exercise of their duty without the member's consent and to publish or otherwise post this image on any media with intent to identify this member"

I've highlighted the important words there for those who think Garda­ will be stealing their cameras when they have a bad hair day.

If they wanted they could just propose
"introduce a criminal offence to publish or otherwise post this an image on any media with intent to identify this a member

What they want is to be able to intimidate anyone who takes out a phone or camera. They want to operate without being accountable for their actions.

Little CuChulainn

diomed wrote: »

If they wanted they could just propose
"introduce a criminal offence to publish or otherwise post this an image on any media with intent to identify this a member

What they want is to be able to intimidate anyone who takes out a phone or camera. They want to operate without being accountable for their actions.

Your offence would catch more people though. The wording from AGSI requires you to both take the photo and publish it. Your wording requires only the latter action.

mynamejeff

Widdershins wrote: »

I was prepared to believe I was seriously misled about this but have you seen the transcript? If that's what you call a private joke they are entitled to make, I don't know what to say to you.

''THE TRANSCRIPT:
Sgt. A “Who is them two lassies – do you know the two of them?â€
Garda B “I don’t know the second one, the first one is (refers to Ms. A) with blonde hairâ€.
Garda C “She was up on the tractor earlier onâ€.
Sgt. A “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name againâ€.
Garda B “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the **** she isâ€.
Garda C “Is she a Yank?â€
Garda B “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anywayâ€.
Garda D “Sounds like a Yank or Canadianâ€.
Garda B “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration ****ing on herâ€.
Sgt. A “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrestedâ€.
Garda B “And deportedâ€.
Sgt. A “And rapedâ€.
Garda B “I wouldn’t go that far yet, she was living down at that crusty camp, ****’s sake, you never know what you might getâ€.
Laughter
Sgt. A “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape youâ€.
Garda C “Hold it there, give me your name and address, there, I’ll Facebook youâ€.
Laughter
Sgt. A “Or I’ll definitely rape youâ€.
Garda C “Will you be me friend on Facebook?â€

http://www.thejournal.ie/transcript-of-the-corrib-rape-tape-427655-Apr2012/

was it not found that this tape was tampered with by the shell to sea people before it was made public ?

tayto lover

mynamejeff wrote: »

was it not found that this tape was tampered with by the shell to sea people before it was made public ?

That would not suit agendas though.

Annasopra

I think this is perfectly fine. How would you like being a guard and constantly having camera phones being shoved in your face and the footage being manipulated.

Annasopra

seamus wrote: »

No, the discussion point here is not making it illegal to record Gardai, but making it illegal to publish without the Garda's consent. The Indo have of course sensationalised it up a bit.

And that is perfectly fine if you ask me. Guards like everyone else have a right to privacy.

Annasopra

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I read this on the IT this morning and I don't agree at all with stalking individual members online to try and find out where they live, intimidate them etc. People doing so should be identified themselves and prosecuted.

HOWEVER, given the never-ending scandals and corruption within our police force, I think it's actually VITAL that they can be held to account through video from the general public. It's one of the few instances where social medias can actually be useful.

I'm very very wary of trial by social media as an accountability tool. It can be edited heavily. It can be used out of context. It can be completely one sided and biased.

Reati

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I think this is perfectly fine. How would you like being a guard and constantly having camera phones being shoved in your face and the footage being manipulated.

It's funny that the a number of people have posted this comment about a camera shoved in one's face. I bet if you ask any random number of guards that doesn't happen as often as people here are making it. The fact there is a reaction to this purposal shows there is a lack of trust in the guards to do the right thing which can be easily backed up by any number of the events of recent years.

Widdershins

mynamejeff wrote: »

was it not found that this tape was tampered with by the shell to sea people before it was made public ?

That was the result of a google search, didn't see anything about tampering but have since found a Boards thread. I don't know, it looks like the women made comments to the gardai and the jokes were a reaction between the gardai, afterward. Not exactly reassuring or professional either way.

please helpThank YOU

Garda Want To Ban People Photographing and Recording Them on Duty. So The Garda Can Suppress Evidence Of Wrongdoing by Garda . Look What Happened in Los Angeles Police Department With Video Footage of **** (RODNEY KING)*****.

Barry Badrinath

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Garda Want To Ban People Photographing and Recording Them on Duty. So The Garda Can Suppress Evidence Of Wrongdoing by Garda . Look What Happened in Los Angeles Police Department With Video Footage of **** (RODNEY KING)*****.

Whats wrong with you?

Do you work for the Indo?

The last time I saw so much shyte, I was on a farm.

please helpThank YOU

Reati wrote: »

They want it banned because people were sharing information on social media and they feel under threat.



Seems the real ban is that Identifying a Garda's name and home address on social media. Sounds like they are using this as a way to avoid been held accountable for things they do on duty which gets recorded. Trustworthy bunch they are and all.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-want-ban-on-people-photographing-and-recording-them-on-duty-35609002.html

Can't see how this would be enforced without infringing on our fantastic laws with regards photographic freedoms. I hope this falls on it's face.

If a Garda or any Member of the Public does Wrong to Me our any Member of my Family and If I have a Video Camera I Will Tape them. As Evidence of Criminal Wrongdoing. and now The Garda Want Stop You Video Taping Them. Next You Will have Criminals Doing Crimes with there Solicitors /Barrister Human Rights Saying the do not want to be Video Recorded Doing Wrong Doing/Crimes .

Donal55

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

If a Garda or any Member of the Public does Wrong to Me our any Member of my Family and If I have a Video Camera I Will Tape them. As Evidence of Criminal Wrongdoing. and now The Garda Want Stop You Video Taping Them. Next You Will have Criminals Doing Crimes with there Solicitors /Barrister Human Rights Saying the do not want to be Video Recorded Doing Wrong Doing/Crimes .

WHY DO YOU ALWAYS SHOUT?

please helpThank YOU

Just Got Me Thinking What About The Garda CCTV System In say Dublin City Garda Being Video Recorded on duty .

Outlaw Pete

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Once again you missing this bit ; and to publish or otherwise post this image on any media with intent to identify this member

They didn't miss that at all, in fact the user cited what you say they missed.

The only people missing portions of the proposed law are people such as yourself who are trying to suggest that the law would be focused solely on the publishing of such videos when in fact that is not the case (hence the Times poll asking should it be legal or illegal to record Gardai on Duty).

It's quite clear that they also are attempting to make the act of actually recording Gardai on duty (without prior consent) illegal and are using the rare case of Garda harassment as a way of trying to push it over the line.

We already have laws in place which make harassment illegal and there are already laws in place also which make obstructing members of the Gardai on duty (especially while making an arrest) a criminal offence and so people talking about shoving cameras in Gardai's faces needing to be illegal are wasting their time as that already is illegal. Try it tonight if you think it's not.

please helpThank YOU

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Just Got Me Thinking What About The Garda CCTV System In say Dublin City Garda Being Video Recorded on duty .

What about it?
Gardai are hardly likely to go posting videos of themselves & identifying themselves on social media now are they?
Or have you completely missed the point?

"Outlaw

"Outlaw wrote:

We already have laws in place which make harassment illegal and there are already laws in place also which make obstructing members of the Gardai on duty (especially while making an arrest) a criminal offence and so people talking about shoving cameras in Gardai's faces needing to be illegal are wasting their time as that already is illegal. Try it tonight if you think it's not.

Harassment is a continual action, not a one off occurance.
Videoing someone is not obstructing them

kingchess

I find it amazing that the people who we hire to enforce our laws-the Gardai- do not want to be filmed enforcing those laws,why???. they work for us,we as taxpayers pay their wages,we pay them to enforce the law in a fair manner,and in public I do not believe you can have any expectation of privacy , A free press is vital to hold our public servants accountable and is a corner stone of democracy,and any person with a camera has the same rights as any journalist .

Outlaw Pete

bubblypop wrote: »

Harassment is a continual action, not a one off occurance.

I never said it was but it had been discussed earlier in the thread how footage can be used to harass Gardai and I am just pointing out that there are already laws in place that can be used to prosecute someone who uses footage in that manner. No new laws are needed.

Videoing someone is not obstructing them

Again, I never said it always was. What I referenced was the fact that some users on the thread had said that sticking cameras in a Garda's face while they are attempting to do their duties should be illegal.. the point is that videoing Gardai in that manner already is as it would be considered obstructing Gardai.

boobycharlton

There's already loads of videos on Youtube of guards (wrongly) informing people that it's illegal to film them in public. All the people here saying "they should ban publishing videos online without the guards consent" are living on fantasy island if they think that if such a law is passed, the guards won't abuse it and use it to stop anyone filming them whatsoever.

Such idiotic timing from Garda management to propose something like this when the forces reputation and integrity is in absolute tatters.

Calhoun

Shocking it's not unusual for criminals to not want their details published online.

No surprise this force coming out with it at a time like this the poor things abandoned by their minister and now the public dare video their misdeeds.

Francis is smart enough not to go near the toxic bunch .