Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

FrannoFan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Without those players, we’d have Loughman for Cronin, Holland for Kleyn with O’Shea on the bench, Wycherley for O’Mahony, Oliver for O’Donnell, Bleyendaal for Carbery with Johnston on the bench, Goggin for Farrell with Arnold on the bench, and Sweetnam or Wootton for Conway.
Would still be strong enough to compete.

That's would be a fairly weak outfit. They don't have the depth of the teams they will have to beat to make it past the semis.

Munster first 15 can compete with anyone. They will make final 4 in Europe. After that it's a question of if they can topple leinster/saracens/Racing to make the next step and looks like they will get a chance to see against saracens away after overcoming Edinburgh away.

shootermacg

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

FrannoFan wrote: »

That's would be a fairly weak outfit. They don't have the depth of the teams they will have to beat to make it past the semis.

Munster first 15 can compete with anyone. They will make final 4 in Europe. After that it's a question of if they can topple leinster/saracens/Racing to make the next step and looks like they will get a chance to see against saracens away after overcoming Edinburgh away.

I think Sarries have a bit more in attack, but Exeter has a bit more in defence. I think today's game will stand us in good stead against a team like Sarries.

I personally thought this would be a seriously tough game...and it was. There was a bit too much on the line for us to start cutting loose. I think we'll learn from this game and it will make us a much better team.

Props to Joey, he took those pressure kicks in his stride and in a lot of games under Keats, it was the kicks that cost us the game.

troyzer

shootermacg wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

It's a serious question. With the exception of Farrell, that entire backline has been completely healthy as far as I remember since Murray came back.

I'm happy to be corrected on this.

Serious? Nothing serious about your posts...
here's something you can post in the other teams' threads which would save you some time:
[Your team sucks...You are not Leinster...something about conveyor belts...you need to do exactly what Leinster does and then you would be Leinster great..]

Just copy and paste and then you can go on with your day.

Cool, play the man and not the ball.

I thought Munster's set piece and defense were excellent and more than good enough to win the tournament. Their turnover ability especially was exceptional.

But they had 160 metres of attacking rugby today. And that is just so poor. Carbery and Farrell combined had a total of 10 metres carrying.

Lyon, the worst team in the competition, just got battered by an average Cardif team away from home and still managed to move the ball twice as much.

Munster had 12 turnovers and should have had plenty of possession but they kept coming up blunt and kicking it away to a team which, while still poor in attack, at least were doing their best to hold onto and move the ball. And they DID move it a lot more as a result.

shootermacg

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

troyzer wrote: »

Lyon, the worst team in the competition, just got battered by an average Cardif team away from home and still managed to move the ball twice as much.

Can you not see the irony? Really?

troyzer

shootermacg wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Lyon, the worst team in the competition, just got battered by an average Cardif team away from home and still managed to move the ball twice as much.

Can you not see the irony? Really?

Apparently not

shootermacg

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

troyzer wrote: »

Apparently not

The teams were evenly matched.
What more could they do but pressurise each other.
All you can do with pressure teams is not give in to them.
Then again I'm sure it wasn't exciting to the showboating lover.
This game had my heart in my chest.

Opps bloody sticking space bar...fixed

molloyjh

The last few weeks Munster have had consistency, but you need time for the relationships to build. Prior to the back to backs in Dec, Munster had a different midfield almost every week. If they can keep the consistency in selection post 6Ns and into next season we should see improvements on what we’re currently seeing. There’s plenty of talent there so they could end up being very good.

Tim Robbins

awec wrote: »

Weak link is the outside backs. Earls is the best you have there by some distance.

Your pack is good enough, so long as you have no injuries. The problems occur when Munster have to actually use some moves. When you can't run over the top of teams (like today) you look very average. I am not sure what Felix Jones is bringing to the party. This is why, IMO, Munster won't be in the frame to win this competition. Racing, Saracens and Leinster will happily deal with Munster's one-out runners all day long.

I think the weak links are:

1. Lack a classy 7
2. The combinations. Beirne is classy mobile forward - the rest are gnarlers.
3. Carberry is a flair player. Munster 12 - 15 are good but there's there's no-once at Carberrys's level to benefit from him
4. Expectation. Munster DNA is all about backs to the wall and grinding out victories, out muscle, out mongrel teams. Carberry and Beirne are super players and great additions but you'd get even more out of them if they were playing in a team that took more risks with the ball. They give great performances in the red jersey but they would be even more effective if there was similar players and a more open game plan used by the team.

Munster DNA is more about beating the forwards and waiting til there is space outside rather than trying to make it off first phase or counter attacking.

Similarly, the Munster fans have a reference point of O'Gara and O'Connell. Class players that played a certain way. I am just not sure if the current Munster with really only 3 home stars (Earls, O'Mahony, Murray) can resonate with the people and the 16th man as much.

FrannoFan

shootermacg wrote: »

I think Sarries have a bit more in attack, but Exeter has a bit more in defence. I think today's game will stand us in good stead against a team like Sarries.

I personally thought this would be a seriously tough game...and it was. There was a bit too much on the line for us to start cutting loose. I think we'll learn from this game and it will make us a much better team.

Props to Joey, he took those pressure kicks in his stride and in a lot of games under Keats, it was the kicks that cost us the game.

Totally agree regarding joey at the end. You can see him approach pom and say points and that he wants to kick it. Makes the decision easy to take the 3.

Steve

shootermacg wrote: »

The teams were evenly matched.
What more could they do but pressurise each other.
All you can do with pressure teams is not give in to them.
Then again I'm sure it wasn't exciting to the showboating lover.
This game had my heart in my chest.

Opps bloody sticking space bar...fixed

Mod:

You should get that space bar fixed before it gets you into more trouble.

Caranica

Some big stand outs for me today that might not have made the general comments :

Rory Scannell is an excellent passer but today got repeatedly used as an isolated battering ram. No point in having possession if you're going to turn it over /concede a penalty.

Murray. Injury? Wasn't his best game. Some questionable calls about when to pass and when to box kick.

Loughman. Got pushed off tackles way more than a man of his size should be, some questionable positioning in the loose too. Didn't think today was a great outing for him.

Garces was mostly rubbish, hoping for a better ref for quarter. Have a feeling we'll get Nigel though

Burkie1203

Caranica wrote: »

Some big stand outs for me today that might not have made the general comments :

Rory Scannell is an excellent passer but today got repeatedly used as an isolated battering ram. No point in having possession if you're going to turn it over /concede a penalty.

Murray. Injury? Wasn't his best game. Some questionable calls about when to pass and when to box kick.

Loughman. Got pushed off tackles way more than a man of his size should be, some questionable positioning in the loose too. Didn't think today was a great outing for him.

Garces was mostly rubbish, hoping for a better ref for quarter. Have a feeling we'll get Nigel though

If it's Embra v Munster it's likely to be an English or French ref especially if Racing and Toulouse arent paired together in QF

Shefwedfan

Caranica wrote: »

Garces was mostly rubbish, hoping for a better ref for quarter. Have a feeling we'll get Nigel though

Why was Garces rubbish?

sioda

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why was Garces rubbish?

OK let's try that
Pings munster for tackling man in the air at line out very next line out let's exeter do the same.
Beirnes charge down on the second half he was on side but pings for off.
Quick line out taken by Nowell on Exeter 5m line was clearly forward no check done.

That's just off the top of my head

Weepsie

sioda wrote: »

Beirnes charge down on the second half he was on side but pings for off.

If that's the one I'm thinking of, he was definitely not onside

Burkie1203

sioda wrote: »

OK let's try that
Pings munster for tackling man in the air at line out very next line out let's exeter do the same.
Beirnes charge down on the second half he was on side but pings for off.
Quick line out taken by Nowell on Exeter 5m line was clearly forward no check done.

That's just off the top of my head

Garces was also very generous on a few occasions telling Munster players to get off the ball. He could easily have blown for a pen on at least 2 occasions but he wanted to keep the game moving

Beirne was offside IMO.

Garces was grand. Micro analyse every game and you will find hundreds of infringements not blown for especially at maul ruck and lineout.

He could potentially have given Pen try and YC just before Exeter try for collapsing the maul too.

As a spectacle the game was gripping. There was literally huge amounts at stake. The rugby side was poor but often occasions make games like this more entertaining.

molloyjh

Human referee not perfect shocker.

Human referee allowed to interpret laws in real time decides differently to fan in the stands with worse view or fan at home with totally different view (and multiple camera angles) shocker.

The list of “offences” above seem pretty minor and in no way damning of the performance.

Caranica

Garces gave Exeter an age off the back of every ruck, not calling on them to use it. He took ages to set every scrum with the clock ticking away. His definition of offside was selective and ditto crossing.

Shefwedfan

Garces was not rubbish.

It is funny how every ref that Munster get the ref is rubbish

Garces had a good game, not sure how anyone could say anything else.

The list above are laughable. The one at lineout was a mistake, but it looked from his position POM contacted in air, even BT called it and it was only on replay they said it was wrong. So that is nitpicking.....As for Beirne, he was a mile offside.

Every thread doesn't have to go into a slagging match for the ref.....

stephen_n

It would seem that Munster have been terribly unlucky with every referee they have had this season. One would almost have to assume it’s a conspiracy.

PetKing

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

It's funny how all the same posters keep banging on about the collective conspiracy and pushing the Munster refs agenda.

Stout Warrior

Funnily enough I don't think the Leinster fans are much better. Manys the game where Leinster supporters berate the ref. Can people not just take the game for what it is an evenly reffed contest with players and coaches to be analysed not the ref. It gets boring

yerrahbah

Every set of supporters complain about refs. Let's not pretend this is exclusive to Munster.

Shefwedfan

yerrahbah wrote: »

Every set of supporters complain about refs. Let's not pretend this is exclusive to Munster.

Who said it was? I would post the same thing on Ireland/Ulster/Connacht thread....

typhoony

Didn't think the ref was too bad, most refs favour the dominant team on the pitch, and for a good chunk of the game it was Exeter, apart from leinster and racing Munster aren't likely to face e a better team than exeter

stephen_n

PetKing wrote: »

It's funny how all the same posters keep banging on about the collective conspiracy and pushing the Munster refs agenda.

Its funny how the same Munster supporters keep banging on about refs doing them in every single game they play.

Burkie1203

Caranica wrote: »

Garces gave Exeter an age off the back of every ruck, not calling on them to use it. He took ages to set every scrum with the clock ticking away. His definition of offside was selective and ditto crossing.

Conor Murray has also been known to take similar time when about to box kick.

Can you specify the crossing because I can't recall a single example where he should have called it

Burkie1203

Caranica wrote: »

Garces gave Exeter an age off the back of every ruck, not calling on them to use it. He took ages to set every scrum with the clock ticking away. His definition of offside was selective and ditto crossing.

Conor Murray has also been known to take similar time when about to box kick.

Can you specify the crossing because I can't recall a single example where he should have called it

Caranica

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Conor Murray has also been known to take similar time when about to box kick.

Can you specify the crossing because I can't recall a single example where he should have called it

I'll have to watch the game back, was at the game so wasn't paying attention to the timings of incidents.

Murray was told to use it at least twice

The Lost Sheep

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think the weak links are:

1. Lack a classy 7
2. The combinations. Beirne is classy mobile forward - the rest are gnarlers.
3. Carberry is a flair player. Munster 12 - 15 are good but there's there's no-once at Carberrys's level to benefit from him
4. Expectation. Munster DNA is all about backs to the wall and grinding out victories, out muscle, out mongrel teams. Carberry and Beirne are super players and great additions but you'd get even more out of them if they were playing in a team that took more risks with the ball. They give great performances in the red jersey but they would be even more effective if there was similar players and a more open game plan used by the team.

Munster DNA is more about beating the forwards and waiting til there is space outside rather than trying to make it off first phase or counter attacking.

Similarly, the Munster fans have a reference point of O'Gara and O'Connell. Class players that played a certain way. I am just not sure if the current Munster with really only 3 home stars (Earls, O'Mahony, Murray) can resonate with the people and the 16th man as much.

Whats a "classy 7"?
Dont see issue with the 7s and different types Munster have at their disposal.
I disagree on Carbury and the pedestal you have him on regarding creativity with other backs. Scannell is being made play a type of game he isnt necessarily the best at.

Caranica wrote: »

Some big stand outs for me today that might not have made the general comments :

Rory Scannell is an excellent passer but today got repeatedly used as an isolated battering ram. No point in having possession if you're going to turn it over /concede a penalty.

Murray. Injury? Wasn't his best game. Some questionable calls about when to pass and when to box kick.

Loughman. Got pushed off tackles way more than a man of his size should be, some questionable positioning in the loose too. Didn't think today was a great outing for him.

Garces was mostly rubbish, hoping for a better ref for quarter. Have a feeling we'll get Nigel though

Was working in thomond so didnt really see game and havent yet today either and i agree on Scannell.
Agree on Murray but dont think Injury was reason
Garces was not rubbish at all. Any reason why you think that?