Tesla Model S

slave1

The D gains with dual regen, not sure on the 75 though apart from weight, new shape added nothing from memory

Sabre Man

I think it would be interesting to drive a Model S 75 and 85 in the same way/conditions and compare consumption.

unkel

I've no doubt the facelift 75 is far more efficient than the pre facelift 85. I'm seeing consumption on a daily basis that is far lower. Not that it matters much either way except for range, if driven gently, the 75 will go further.

Is there any difference in coefficient of drag between pre-facelift and facelift cars?

Soarer

Afternoon folks.

Can anyone tell me if this would be a good purchase or not? I'm not up on Teslas and their issues. I do know that this is the pre-facelift model though, so not as attractive as the later models.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-s-performance-p85-premium-connectivit/31440070

unkel

That's the model I had before. Great car, you will love it. Fairly strong money for it though. But it's from a dealer and as part of the negotiation you could demand a very long warranty, say 2 years. Just so you are aware, the car is too old to have autopilot and it can not be retrofitted either. If that's a total bummer you could fit an excellent aftermarket system like comma.ie's "Open Pilot" for very little money.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411569#Comment_119411569

I had a very similar car too. A 2014 P85+.

This car seems to have a comprehensive history and if the items replaced were done then the car should last a long time.

It’s right around the early MS production so the fact the battery went and was replaced is a good thing in my book.

Take the dealer listing with a pinch of salt as they had a massive ad talking about this car with dual motors and ludicrous performance but That has since changed as maybe someone spoke to them.

If it still has premium connectivity and free supercharging then that’s great and will be even greater in the future as more chargers are added.

To give an idea on pricing, I bought mine for €34k in July 2020 and sold for €36k in July 2021 and the prices seem to have kept going up!

Check condition. Something about the wheels jump out at me. I think they have the wrong size tyres on the rear at 245 as they look a little stretched and if I’m right, they are staggered wheels and need 265 on the rear.

It’s the last of the Performance RWD MS’s and a lot of fun 😃

Soarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412072#Comment_119412072

Thanks Unkel.

Is "autopilot" Tesla speak for "normal" adaptive cruise control? Or is it the full-on hands off the wheel, indicate and it changes lane job? 'Cause the latter would be nice but not a necessity. If it's the former, I couldn't buy a car without adaptive.

As for the new battery, new motor, new BMS. Woudl they be reconditioned units, or brand new? And would it just be new cells in the battery or a new entire unit?

And free supercharging for life. What speed would this charge at? There are a bank of new superchargers installed in the last 12 months near me (< 10 minutes away). Wondering what I'd get if I spent half an hour there of an evening?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412318#Comment_119412318

In the car you’ve linked it’s basic cruise control.

Replacement battery would be a refurbed 85 pack from Tesla. Not a brand new battery pack.

Motor and BMS may be new units but you’d have to see the service invoice to confirm as they state whether they are new units or reman (remanufactured).

SuC Speeds on this car would be about 115-120 kW using the Tesla SuC. That would obviously taper down as your charging.

slave1

The drive train and motor are highly likely to be reconditioned, almost all S's of this era have had them replaced at least once. My S was on its 4th battery when I sold it so make of that what you may.

Warranty is an issue, the price is also v high, that's up to you and your negotiation skills.

Test drive, test the air suspension, fold the back seats down and turn off all audio, any high pitched whining noise points to motor issue.

You will charge at 117 kW max for a few seconds then quickly taper, if you arrive at a SuC at a low state of charge you should get around 15% in 10 minutes and around 40% in half an hour. Forget about more than 90% as charge rate drops to the floor.

The car is a beaut, but think v carefully about out of warranty costs....

Soarer

Thanks guys.

Wouldn't follow up on it with it only having basic cruise control though, so your help was in vain.

Properly toying with the idea of going back to BEV. Changing jobs so site work and regular long mileage is no longer an issue. Everything's gone so bloody pricey though!

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412939#Comment_119412939

Proper AP requires the full camera set up so look at that as a base on any future cars you look at.

Soarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412999#Comment_119412999

Thanks Gumbo.

I assume they'd list the car as having AutoPilot? What does the full camera set up comprise of?!

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413085#Comment_119413085

Small independent dealers don’t really know how to advertise these cars. They list extras that they don’t have, list standard items as extras etc

AP has the cameras in the front windscreen, side B Pillars and the front wings.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412939#Comment_119412939

You could install Open Pilot, it has adaptive cruise control as standard, also auto lane change and it does an even better job of steering than Tesla autopilot itself.

That said, you can easily get another Tesla Model S that is newer (from 2015) and does have autopilot, for that asking price. It won't be a performance model though. These early P models not only are a total blast to drive (RWD, far too much torque for the traction control to handle and you can also switch it off - since about a week after I got mine - over the air update) and most of them have full spec. This includes super high quality audio system (a £2.5k upgrade), dual chargers for 23kW AC charging (also a £2.5k option at the time), etc. This charging is quite handy in Ireland as the ESB alone has over 1000 of them scattered around the country.

I was talking recently to the new owner of my old Tesla, he did 25k km in it in just 5 months, bringing the car close enough to 200k km. Zero issues, he is delighted with it.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413101#Comment_119413101

AP1 only has front facing radar, no pillar or side cameras and this era S would be AP1, even though I have all the cameras on current Tesla I'd still prefer AP1, it was faultless

unkel

Seeing as we're on the Model S thread anyway, had family over a couple of weeks ago, weather was very pleasant (a few days before the hottest day ever) and I took them for a leisurely spin across the mountains. At some point my 50km average was showing an insanely low 9kWh/100km. Should have taken a picture!

I also popped my summon cherry. We went to the beach at Brittas Bay, parked at the north beach car park. When we came back, someone had parked so close to me that I would have had to go in via the passenger side. I was about to do that when I thought to myself, wait a minute, you do have summon, don't you? 😁 Worked perfectly. I must have looked like a little boy with a toy remote car on Christmas morning 😂 The visitors were duly impressed.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413204#Comment_119413204

Yes I had AP1 on my 2016 but I only mentioned the cameras as Soarer wanted the full on AP.

My 2016 had Highway AP which was the basic version of EAP at the time I believe.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412677#Comment_119412677

My S was on its 4th battery when I sold it so make of that what you may.

That's crazy stuff. Not a good news story for EV adoption (regardless of it being all under warranty)

I know the early Tesla models had battery issues (new tech yada yada) and nearly all needed replacing, so I could stomach that, as they were early adaptors... but there is no excuse for 4 batteries. Why did that happen?

unkel

4 batteries is of course crazy stuff. I don't really know what Tesla do differently these days, but failure of packs put in in the last 5 years or so is nearly unheard of. Motor failure has also been pretty much unheard of for longer than that. And it's not new batteries they put in. In my last car (2014 Model S) they put in a new battery in late 2020, which was actually a refurbished battery from a 2013 car originally. So older than my car! There is a high mileage Model S in Germany that has had a few motors and a few batteries but it has done over 500k km on the last motor and battery. That seems a lot more typical now

Also the "needs a battery replacement" is a bit of a typical OEM solution. There is almost certainly only an issue with one of the modules (the cars have about 15 of them) and third party companies, even in Ireland, can now fix Tesla batteries for a fraction of the cost of a new pack installed by Tesla.

slave1

No idea, I was lucky enough to have lots of paperwork from previous owner, my personal suspicion was water egress

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413482#Comment_119413482

I think you mean water ingress! 😉

The next 5yrs will be interesting for the early Model 3's. A lot of the Model S issues took 5+ yrs to become widespread (batteries, motors, memory chips etc). Lets hope Tesla have got it figured out at this stage. Out of warranty BEV issues are not for the faint hearted, regardless of manufacturer.

Looking at Munro's recent vids on the new Tesla packs suggest they are making it even more difficult to work on their packs. Tesla don't like anything after market happening on their vehicles and are actively inhibiting it.

unkel

Model 3 have been around for 5 years now, @KCross - with battery replacements being almost unheard of. You are well informed, you are clearly trolling now stating that it took 5+ years for Model S issues to become widespread. You know very well the issues were there right from the start. It's a miracle Tesla is still alive and well today after the enormous money they spent on replacing motors and batteries in early cars combined with being the most shorted stock in history. They have come out of that a long time ago though and very, very strong. Tesla already is the biggest car company in the world in terms of market cap. They are the only mass manufacturer of cars with an extremely high margin (about 30%)

I wish I had held onto my TSLA shares that I sold for a nice profit. I could nearly retire on the proceeds if I had kept them

KCross

you are clearly trolling now stating that it took 5+ years for Model S issues to become widespread. You know very well the issues were there right from the start

not sure why you think anything I’ve said is trolling. I’m pro Tesla, just stating reality. I’m not wishing the end of Tesla or shorting it or anything like that. I even said it’s “regardless of manufacturer”

your own post even supports my point, your 2014 had a battery replacement in 2020. Lots and lots of memory card issues after 5yrs+. That’s not trolling, just reality.

unkel

@KCross - "Lots and lots of memory card issues after 5yrs+. That’s not trolling, just reality."

eMMC data storage issues were another problem of Tesla's own making by logging Big Brother levels of data constantly that would hit MTBF in record time. Solution was OTA update to no longer log as much data and to replace the chip with a bigger, more robust one. For free. For all cars in and even out of warranty.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413851#Comment_119413851

I know all that. The point was it took about 5yrs before that issue became widespread.

slave1

The S also stores it's maps on a microsd card which is a €300+ silly timebomb. When mine was in for other work I had the eMMC replacement and got them to move the maps onto the eMMC chip thereby avoiding the inevitable microsd failure

slave1

I think the new 3 and Y battery packs are solid, I also think Tesla are not going out of their way to ensure others can't repair them, I think it's more aligned to the giga press and structural battery pack.

Remember, all S and X were/will be Freemont builds, enough said.

3 builds from Shanghai are a total game changer as I'm sure Berlin will be.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119414329#Comment_119414329

I also think Tesla are not going out of their way to ensure others can't repair them, I think it's more aligned to the giga press and structural battery pack.

The structural pack is part of the issue alright. I definitely recommend taking a look at Munro’s vids on it over the last week.

He is struggling to break it down and he has the advantage of not caring about putting it back together again. It seems, to me anyway, that the new 4680 structural pack is not designed to be serviceable.

Possibly Tesla have been clever and isolate dud cells on the fly and so can do this, but once the pack has a serious issue it doesn’t look like it’s serviceable. New pack from Tesla required.

Can’t see local Indy’s being able to deal with it once this pack is rolled out across the Tesla range in the years ahead. There’s no plug ‘n play here.

4680 packs will need to outlive the car by quite a margin or else the repair cost won’t be economical.

Its like how memory chips and hard drives are gone on computers… soldered onto the motherboard and not meant to be serviceable.

Not sure it’s a good thing tbh. I’ll be interested to see Munro’s final analysis on it.

slave1

Yeah, I saw his initial structural pack opening, there's bound to be a chemical of some description that will dissolve the hardened pink stuff, Tesla already have it formulated I'd guess.

Tesla have obviously monitored recent battery pack replacements and it must be cheaper to just swap and not recondition the packs anymore. It must be a labour intensive exercise and now maybe they've finally decided the non-refurb route and just give everyone new 90 packs (lucky sods)

ELM327

On the no AP/AP1/AP2, AP1 is my favorite by far. The only thing better in Ap2+ is the NOAP, the lane change is much better but apart from that everything is still better in AP1, from speed sign recognition to general "auto" ability. Had AP1 in Severus (2016 S90D) and AP2 in Slughorn (2017 X75D).

Whatever about AP1/2/3 etc I'd think long and hard about buying a Tesla with no autopilot at all. I regularly do 250-800km drives in our Tesla/s and the autopilot is invaluable.