2018 Leaf

Mope

What are the stats for Leaf? IONIQ is 88kW and 295 nM. Did not push Leaf hard enough to compare when was test driving it.

To be complete honest, I do not care how good/bad it accelerates. It has enough poke for my liking as it is. It's definitely quicker than my 05 Legacy non turbo 125 HP simply because of nM figure and the lack of gears. I love it.

Soarer

According to Wikipedia, the Leaf is 80 kW and 280 Nm.

grogi

Soarer wrote: »

According to Wikipedia, the Leaf is 80 kW and 280 Nm.

The figure of torque of the motor is completely meaningless. There is a differential in-between that can massively influence the torque at the wheels.

Mope

Maybe meaningless but some start anyway... :]
It is like measuring two cars with same HP and nM but different gear ratio. One would accelerate quicker, one would not. One would drive one way, the other different way.

Lads, the sheer reality here is that there is negligible difference between the two and certainly not a significant difference.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Lads, the sheer reality here is that there is negligible difference between the two and certainly not a significant difference.

I guess it depends on what you are used to. Performance wise the Ioniq is a big step down from many cars I have owned. But one that I can (just about) live with as the family car. Performance of the Leaf (particularly the top speed) would have tipped it just about over to the inadequate level.

But I guess I'm a bit of an odd one out compared to most EV owners.

cros13

I'm afraid I fall on the side that the Leaf and Ioniq offer practically identical performance. I couldn't really tell the difference except I thought the initial torque was dialed back a little on the Ioniq (in Sport mode). There's a big leap to the i3 (which is twice the power to weight of the Leaf).

I think medium/long term we'll see a shift to RWD and AWD EVs... because the location of the motors don't really matter. And then they can throw more power into mid-priced EVs.

The reason the Leaf and Ioniq are both FWD is just to simplify building them on existing lines.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

I'm afraid I fall on the side that the Leaf and Ioniq offer practically identical performance.

I'm up for the challenge. Anyone in a Leaf want to see if they can go faster than me? Or practically identically as fast? Nice bits of empty motorway not too far from where I live

If the Leaf can really do 160km/h (and the Ioniq something like 165km/h) then I will concede the point.

cros13

I'd bet on the leaf being off the line quicker and the Ioniq making up ground after 30-40km/h

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I'm up for the challenge. Anyone in a Leaf want to see if they can go faster than me? Or practically identically as fast? Nice bits of empty motorway not too far from where I live

If the Leaf can really do 160km/h (and the Ioniq something like 165km/h) then I will concede the point.

Leaf won't do 160. Thats just indicated speed. 150 is what it will do. Hardly a significant downgrade from the Ioniq!

It didn't even come into the equation for me to be honest and I constantly drive it at 130 indicated. The top speed is largely irrelevant to 99% of people.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

The top speed is largely irrelevant to 99% of people EV owners.

Looks like I'm in a tiny minority so

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Looks like I'm in a tiny minority so

You were probably more at home in the main motors forum with the "real" boy racers! :P

unkel

Boy racers are more about cars that look like they go fast

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Boy racers are more about cars that look like they go fast

All noise, no power and now you have no noise and loads of power!

There is a market for someone who can change the pedestrian noise in an EV to a sound of your choice. That would have the boy racers flooding over here!

Mope

I'd like different sound on mine when I'm below 30km/h. Where do I sign up?

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

Looks like I'm in a tiny minority so

Nah I'm the same. I wouldn't have bought an EV if the performance couldn't put a smile on my face. Cars should be fun to drive, not just functional.

KCross

stesaurus wrote: »

Nah I'm the same. I wouldn't have bought an EV if the performance couldn't put a smile on my face. Cars should be fun to drive, not just functional.

I agree. Would the top speed being 150 or 160 or 170 matter to you though? The acceleration from 0-100 would be much much further up the list for me than the top speed.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

I'd bet on the leaf being off the line quicker and the Ioniq making up ground after 30-40km/h

That's interesting! What makes you say that? Leaf is heavier but has less torque and less power. So based on that you'd expect it to be a slower to 100km/h. Power to weight is about 15% worse in the Leaf. Why do you think it's quicker off the line, better traction, more wheel surface, more weight on the driven wheels? The "official" figures for the '17 Leaf 30kWh and '17 Ioniq are 11.5s and 9.9s to 100km/h, which again is about 15% worse in the Leaf, which corresponds with the difference in power to weight (original 24kWh Leaf is heavier, so slower again than above figures)

Sure we might as well do an acceleration test when we do a top speed test. You Leaf owners stating that there is only a negligible performance difference between the two cars are all a bit shy all of a sudden

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I agree. Would the top speed being 150 or 160 or 170 matter to you though?

Agree that acceleration is more important as you use it all day every day, but to me a top speed of almost 170km/h is just about adequate. A top speed of a bit over 140km/h would feel like a massive limitation to me.

And I'm the first to agree that most EV people on here are not like me in this regard. But I'll say this. If a Tesla could do 0-100 in 5s, but was limited to 140km/h, it would not sell. At all.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Agree that acceleration is more important as you use it all day every day, but to me a top speed of almost 170km/h is just about adequate. A top speed of a bit over 140km/h would feel like a massive limitation to me.

And I'm the first to agree that most EV people on here are not like me in this regard. But I'll say this. If a Tesla could do 0-100 in 5s, but was limited to 140km/h, it would not sell. At all.

When, where and how often do you get to do 150+ that makes it such a big deal for you? You have the Porsche for that anyway as long as you are willing to pay for the petro!

I agree on the Tesla comment but thats not a like for like comparison. Thats the same as saying a Ferrari wouldn't sell if it was limited.... of course it wouldn't, its a €100k+ car. The Leaf and Ioniq are family cars, not remotely the same bracket.

unkel

The fastest I have driven the Porsche is about 130km/h. It's not a car to go from city A to city B at high cruising speed. It's a weekend car for fun in the twisties / mountains. And if I was into circuit racing, I'd race it.

What is important for me for a daily driver is that it can cover longer distances quickly, safely and comfortably. If I had a meeting in Cork at 9AM, I wouldn't hesitate to drive far quicker than the speed limit in perfect circumstances on an empty motorway. Here in Ireland these seem to be bizarre requirements, but if you'd ask 80 million Germans, most would agree with me

Soarer

I'd just leave a bit earlier and stick to the limits.
And I don't care what the top speed is as I'll never achieve it.
And I don't care what the 0-100 is either.

But then, if I'd dropped €25k+ on a car that's only marginally faster than it's 6 year old competitor, I'd probably want to be measuring knobs too.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

The fastest I have driven the Porsche is about 130km/h. It's not a car to go from city A to city B at high cruising speed. It's a weekend car for fun in the twisties / mountains. And if I was into circuit racing, I'd race it.

What is important for me for a daily driver is that it can cover longer distances quickly, safely and comfortably. If I had a meeting in Cork at 9AM, I wouldn't hesitate to drive far quicker than the speed limit in perfect circumstances on an empty motorway. Here in Ireland these seem to be bizarre requirements, but if you'd ask 80 million Germans, most would agree with me

And in EV you would not get there any faster. In an EV top speed of more than 140 is not needed, there is hardly any use for it really. IMHO of course...

The current generation of affordable cars are only ultra cheap equivalent for your average petrol and diesel, nothing more.

Even the Motor in the 90 HP Zoe is miles better than the normal petrol 60 HP and Diesel they'd normally stick in there, they've even now got a very exciting 75 HP version Zoe as ridiculous as that sounds it would still appeal to a Clio driver who would purchase a 60 HP petrol and still find the 75 HP fantastic.

unkel

grogi wrote: »

And in EV you would not get there any faster.

Indeed. Not in a budget EV anyway. Not yet. If I could afford a Tesla, I'd be driving one. In the meantime I will have to make do with an EV that won't even make it half way to Cork at 170km/h

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

if I'd dropped €25k+ on a car that's only marginally faster than it's 6 year old competitor, I'd probably want to be measuring knobs too.

There's measuring knobs and there's just being a dick.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

There's measuring knobs and there's just being a dick.

Self awareness is the first step towards healing. Well done.

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

And I'm the first to agree that most EV people on here are not like me in this regard.

Perhaps you meant
And I'm the first to agree that most people on here are not like me.

Those of us driving Leaves have to thankful for small mercies:D:D

cros13

unkel wrote: »

That's interesting! What makes you say that?

The initial torque on both is software limited. From my test drive I think the leaf has more torque off the line.

Mope

I thought so too, that it is somehow limited, as with 295nM to front wheels it should spin those wheels endlessly. Yes, sometimes on a slippery surface you get ESP kick in, but it is no where what it should be with amount of torque available.

Anyway, I hope to do the test to Gorey if all goes by plan and will post either a sad "I could not do it" or a review with pictures and results.
I am thinking not to use CC before I pass Topaz on M11 where I think its 60 or 80km/h sign and from there CC on to 105km/h all the way to Gorey.