2018 Leaf

Old diesel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Nope, you said that charging 20-80% "takes 1-2 hours". Not could take, but does take.

What was upheld in the UK was that Nissans's claim of 20-80% in 60 minutes was misleading because sometimes it takes longer.

Yes it was the small print not bring clear enough that got Nissan.

20 to 80 percent in 60 mins wasn't exactly blown out out of it as total nonsense by the findings.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

You were misleading unkel.
It was the usual Leaf is crap, Ioniq is brilliant stuff...

Lol, nail on the head.

I had posted that initially, that the main reason for unkel downplaying the Leaf charge times was to highlight the Ioniq's strengths but it was late and I was grouchy so I didn't want to be too confrontational.

Thanks for picking up my slack, lol.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lol, nail on the head.

I had posted that initially, that the main reason for unkel downplaying the Leaf charge times was to highlight the Ioniq's strengths but it was late and I was grouchy so I didn't want to be too confrontational.

Thanks for picking up my slack, lol.

You must have been feeling a bit of nausea anyway defending the Leaf and its charge times as I dont think you have ever done that before!

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

You must have been feeling a bit of nausea anyway defending the Leaf and its charge times as I dont think you have ever done that before!

Oh I'm not defending it, just being realistic.

I wouldn't dissuade someone from buying the 40kwh Leaf because of rapidgate, I would just make sure they were aware of it and its potential implications on their use.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lol, nail on the head.

You'll find he deleted his post that you quoted

What further can I say? I clarified my position a few points up. I think we all agree that:

Nissan advertised a charging time initially, which was far too optimistic. They took it upon themselves to change the charging time later to "20-80% in 60 minutes"

The ASA found that to be misleading as in practice it can take a lot longer than an hour

Everyone happy now?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

You'll find he deleted his post that you quoted

What further can I say? I clarified my position a few points up. I think we all agree that:

Which was exactly why I deleted it. There was no point further stirring things when you had clarified it.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

3 cars in front of him at Enfield

"Cathal Doyle: How I fared driving from Dublin to Mayo in an electric car"

Linky

This will become very common. It probably already is. Not scaremongering, reality.

Completely taken out of context.

Originally you were talking about having to wait behind a load of L40s suffering from #rapidgate. This report mentions 3 cars, not L40s. Maybe they were Ioniqs!

Plus, the journo started the journey with 70%. If he'd started the journey @ 100%, he'd not have encountered the problem.

KCross

I thought it was a decent enough article and didnt make any specific mention of the Leaf other than it was one of 3 he tested.
It didnt focus on the cars but the infrastructure, which we all know is ****e. It was on point really.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I thought it was a decent enough article and didnt make any specific mention of the Leaf other than it was one of 3 he tested.
It didnt focus on the cars but the infrastructure, which we all know is ****e. It was on point really.

Regardless of the ASA position on the rapidgate advertising, I think we can all agree that the network is crap.


The leaf is going to be more affected than most as the (sometimes) slower charging will contribute to longer dwell time at chargers, either when an L40 is charging or when it makes someone wait - which we will call the "unkel queue" :D

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

I thought it was a decent enough article and didnt make any specific mention of the Leaf other than it was one of 3 he tested.
It didnt focus on the cars but the infrastructure, which we all know is ****e. It was on point really.

The article was on point.

But Unkel using it to prove his point that you could be stuck behind slowly charging L40s was a stretch to say the least.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

3 cars in front of him at Enfield

"Cathal Doyle: How I fared driving from Dublin to Mayo in an electric car"

Linky

This will become very common. It probably already is. Not scaremongering, reality.

Why is he using the AC43 in the photo, it's a leaf?

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

Why is he using the AC43 in the photo, it's a leaf?

Great spot that.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Why is he using the AC43 in the photo, it's a leaf?

In the article he said he had to divert to a slow charger for 2hrs because the rapids were out of service... maybe thats the one he used?

Mancomb Seepgood

I note he mentioned that his fastest time to complete the journey was 4 hours 15 minutes - I wonder which car that was in?

Good article insofar as it focuses on the network,not the cars.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

In the article he said he had to divert to a slow charger for 2hrs because the rapids were out of service... maybe thats the one he used?

It's a triple header in the photo though

Mancomb Seepgood

ELM327 wrote: »

It's a triple header in the photo though

The new Leaf can slow charge from AC43,still that doesn't look like the charger in Longford though.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It's a triple header in the photo though

Ah right, I was looking at the first pic!

Thats interesting alright. Maybe ChaDeMo wasnt working?

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Great spot that.

Cheers. Spot the analyst! :pac::D

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

The new Leaf can slow charge from AC43,still that doesn't look like the charger in Longford though.

It can but it's a poor use of resources, unless of course the chademo was broken and he was stuck.
Looks like an MSA charger in the photo to me. I think it could be enfield, from memory, although that's not a charger I visit very often.

kennethsmyth

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ah here...

I'm one of the biggest #rapidgate critics on here but that's just as misleading as Nissan themselves.

I charged 10% to 80% on a 2018 Leaf in 45 minutes. Could likely have done 20-80% in below 40.

Only on a second charge are you likely to meet rapidgate. I've only seen maybe 2 examples of it happening on a first charge and both had extenuating circumstances like extremely high ambient temperatures.

Unkel, I also have charged from 20% to 80% in approx 35mins constantly, the 1-2 hrs you mention take a number of factors to occur for it to happen, ie most of the below together

- not starting with 100% from slowcharger
- fast driving making the battery hotter
- fast charge directly after fast driving
- driving again after the first fast charge in hot weather
- fast charge again

1-2 hour is totally misleading please be a little more realistic.

ELM327

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Unkel, I also have charged from 20% to 80% in approx 35mins constantly, the 1-2 hrs you mention take a number of factors to occur for it to happen, ie most of the below together

- not starting with 100% from slowcharger
- fast driving making the battery hotter
- fast charge directly after fast driving
- driving again after the first fast charge in hot weather
- fast charge again

1-2 hour is totally misleading please be a little more realistic.

Interestingly, if the 1-2 hours was misleading to anyone other than a fanboy I'm sure the ASA would not have upheld the complaint and forced Nissan to change the ad.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

The article was on point.

But Unkel using it to prove his point that you could be stuck behind slowly charging L40s was a stretch to say the least.

Nope. I pointed out that the guy in the article had 3 cars in front of him. This is not scaremongering, this is reality. And yes, it could be a wait of just 3 * 20 minutes. But it could also be a wait of 3 or 4 hours. Before you can even start to charge your car

Before July, we had about 3000 EVs on the road. In one month alone there were over 300 Leaf 40 added to that. And it's not just the Leaf 40 that is going to make the public charging problem a lot worse than it was last year. I only read somewhere on an Irish thread today, that someone queued behind a Jaguar i-Pace. The owner said his fast charge would take over 2 hours.

These things are the reality, not scaremongering. You can stick your head in the sand, pretending everything is fine. But it isn't and it will get a lot worse than it already is. If I see any politician canvassing, I will start two robust discussions. One about the state of the public charging network and one about the lack of a feed in tariff.

Silent Running

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Unkel, I also have charged from 20% to 80% in approx 35mins constantly, the 1-2 hrs you mention take a number of factors to occur for it to happen, ie most of the below together

- not starting with 100% from slowcharger
- fast driving making the battery hotter
- fast charge directly after fast driving
- driving again after the first fast charge in hot weather
- fast charge again

1-2 hour is totally misleading please be a little more realistic.

But, you should be able to do all those things together in a modern EV. I can, and do, without any drama at all, and still charge fully in 35 minutes.

ELM327

Silent Running wrote: »

But, you should be able to do all those things together in a modern EV. I can, and do, without any drama at all, and still charge fully in 35 minutes.

+1
This is the problem, it's like driving an early fossil car 100 years ago and having to watch the temperature and oil pressure and different fluids and balances etc.
Ain't nobody got no time for that. It's like the recent dublin to cork to dublin rally. I did that in the Ioniq, by the end all the leafs (the 30s and even the 24s) were slowing down because of overheating, whereas the Ioniq, like a fossil car, could have turned right around and done the trip again without issue.

You can buy a leaf 40 and if you want to drive more than 150-180 km you can do all the fettling above.
Or you can just get in and drive any other EV.

KCross

Wheee... And around and around we go!....

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Nope. I pointed out that the guy in the article had 3 cars in front of him. This is not scaremongering, this is reality. And yes, it could be a wait of just 3 * 20 minutes. But it could also be a wait of 3 or 4 hours. Before you can even start to charge your car

Before July, we had about 3000 EVs on the road. In one month alone there were over 300 Leaf 40 added to that. And it's not just the Leaf 40 that is going to make the public charging problem a lot worse than it was last year. I only read somewhere on an Irish thread today, that someone queued behind a Jaguar i-Pace. The owner said his fast charge would take over 2 hours.

These things are the reality, not scaremongering. You can stick your head in the sand, pretending everything is fine. But it isn't and it will get a lot worse than it already is. If I see any politician canvassing, I will start two robust discussions. One about the state of the public charging network and one about the lack of a feed in tariff.

I read that earlier too.
These big battery slow charging (50kW on a 90kWh battery is slow, almost 0.5C) EVs will really show up the crap network for what it is. If you think a leaf40 is bad, at least they only sometimes take that long to charge... an ipace (because they don't have a supercharger network equivalent) will hog for 2 hours every time :eek::eek:


Bring On IONITY!!!

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Wheee... And around and around we go!....

I'm sorry but if someone is going to post blinded fanboy rubbish it's going to be met in kind.

kennethsmyth

ELM327 wrote: »

Interestingly, if the 1-2 hours was misleading to anyone other than a fanboy I'm sure the ASA would not have upheld the complaint and forced Nissan to change the ad.

Really Elm, "fanboy", play the ball not the man.

I have already said I own an L40, I knew of the possible issues around rapidgate, I drive my car, there are reductions in charge kw on second fast chargers.

The reality is there is no 1-2 hours (for me anyway), and Nissan was caught because they were not clear about the possibility of longer charge times than 60mins in certain circumstances.

Everybody needs to stop giving out about different EV's they all have their advantages and flaws.

Heres one of each

L40
- lot of car for price, boot size and a lovely drive
- possible rapidgate

EGolf
- solid construction, looks like normal car, comfortable
- high price

Ioniq
- great motorway distance, new chargers on the way with ionity
- rear visability, boot a little small, not a fan of the seats

i3
- looks futuristic and rear wheel drive
- high price, seats 4 and weird doors

Can we at least try to move on the conversation here and if posting in 2018 Leaf how about letting those that wish to know more or are driving one and want to ask questions have a resource as opposed the same item over and over again.

Thanks (i may have overstepped in the last paragraph but I'm just starting to get fed up on this posting when it should have a more varied discussion)

I'll give it a start - any L40 driver having difficulties with the emergency braking when passing other cars that maybe turning out of the lane you are in and car decides that the car in front is still there when its already gone?

Leroy42

4:15 to do a journey that should take 3:00. So basically totally unsuitable for long journeys.

You can't have a few kids in the back etc and tag on that additional time. And that is if everything is working.

And what do you do if the next charging point is also out of order?

That article is really scary in terms of EV usability.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Bring On IONITY!!!

That's no good to the Leaf though. And that is the only widely available budget EV you can buy in this country. The whole uptake of EVs is under threat to get even slower once this public charging time bomb explodes

I can already see the news articles "I bought an electric vehicle and had to wait 5 hours to charge"

kennethsmyth

Silent Running wrote: »

But, you should be able to do all those things together in a modern EV. I can, and do, without any drama at all, and still charge fully in 35 minutes.

I agree, you should be able to, but also exaggerating the issue is also not right.

I think Nissan should have been more forthcoming about the software cap and also should give the option for it to be removed with the battery warranty still in place. Not going to happen though.