2018 Leaf

Soarer

Old diesel wrote: »

Advertising Standards Agency in the UK have found against Nissan re the charging speed claims.

Theyve told Nissan to make it clearer in advertising regarding full nature of charge speed variation.

The ASA still regarded the newer claim of 20 to 80 percent in 60 mins as misleading.

Wonder if that'll involve refunds or compensation or something?

ELM327

Delighted that they have finally been made to face the reality of their lies and BS.
Hopefully they have to compensate every owner!

DrPhilG

Zero chance of any compensation or anything similar in my opinion.

They just have to change their wording.

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

Zero chance of any compensation or anything similar in my opinion.

They just have to change their wording.

Hopefully the new wording is 20-80% between 30 minutes and 2 hours

kippy

Hi,
I look in on this thread on the odd occasion so apologies for my lack of knowledge.
It was my, perhaps misguided, belief that the chargers that I see in forecourts, outside some factories and along the side of the road, are compatible with ALL EV's.
However based on my reading of the past few posts, this does not seem to be the case.
Can someone clarify this?

Also, how many of these cars can be charged at a house that does not have a specific charging point and what are the issues here?

Thanks in advance, and I note that this is not specifically a Leaf post so please feel free to move to a more appropriate thread mods.

KCross

kippy wrote: »

Hi,
I look in on this thread on the odd occasion so apologies for my lack of knowledge.
It was my, perhaps misguided, belief that the chargers that I see in forecourts, outside some factories and along the side of the road, are compatible with ALL EV's.
However based on my reading of the past few posts, this does not seem to be the case.
Can someone clarify this?

Also, how many of these cars can be charged at a house that does not have a specific charging point and what are the issues here?

Thanks in advance, and I note that this is not specifically a Leaf post so please feel free to move to a more appropriate thread mods.

The public charge points can be viewed here:
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

The green ones are slow chargers and can be used by every EV.

The blue ones are the rapid chargers and are a mixed bag.
There are two main rapid charge cables on these... ChaDeMo and CCS.

Cars come with either ChaDeMo or CCS. The Leaf is ChaDeMo and all the chargers support that. Newer cars like the eNiro, Ioniq etc come with CCS and most of the chargers have CCS, but not all.

All EV's can be charged at home if you have off street parking. You can use a standard 3-pin socket if you wish but thats slow. A proper charge point is recommended and there is a €600 grant to install one which makes it close to free to do.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

You can use a standard 3-pin socket if you wish but thats slow

To expand on this, my 2014 Leaf would take almost 10 hours to charge to 100% from flat.

Given that the likes of the new Kona and e-Niro have 3 times the usable capacity of my Leaf, charging them on a 3-pin plug would be a long oul wait!

kippy

Thanks for the clarification.


I suppose I was asking about charging over a 3 pin plug because a lot of the time you can put in a charge point in your own house but if you are going on a long drive somewhere, it's likely the destination will not have a charge point but if you are there overnight etc, then charging using a 3 pin plug to charge up for the return trip is at least viable.

KCross

kippy wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification.


I suppose I was asking about charging over a 3 pin plug because a lot of the time you can put in a charge point in your own house but if you are going on a long drive somewhere, it's likely the destination will not have a charge point but if you are there overnight etc, then charging using a 3 pin plug to charge up for the return trip is at least viable.

The 3-pin is fine for that scenario but for long term use a proper charge point at your house is the way to go.... particularly since its almost free with the grant.

It charges quicker and less messing around with cables and extension leads etc.

Mechatronical

Hi all,
Was checking this thread out as I was hoping to get a Hyundai Kona for a company car but unfortunately it is not within our budget. 

The 2018 leaf is within the budget however I have worries about the range. I need to head from Collooney Sligo to Cellbridge once per week and return a few days later (~ 190km one way). On the brochure I have been provided it specs the current 2018 model to have 270kmh range (I assume this is with the EPA range @ 243km)

My question is this, is the current Leaf capable of making that trip in Winter (standard national road (N4) turning to motor way around Mullingar (M4)) The part of N4 around Sligo would have a few hilly parts but nothing major.  I was checking out the ESB charging map and was thinking I may need to stop at Enfield Service station (45KM CHAdeMO charging point) on the M4 and charge there for 30 mins to complete my journey. 

I have been checking out some videos regarding the leaf and come across a video where a guy tested the range of the Leaf in British Columbia where the Leaf struggled badly (albeit in wintery conditions with a lot of driving on hilly roads). Obviously not a perfect comparison but is this something I would come to expect from the car including the long charge times due to the lack of TMS.  The lack of active battery cooling seems to be a real drawback for this car. (link below). Wondering is the lower battery capacity Hyundai Ioniq easier to live with in terms of the time spent waiting for it to charge (given the Ioniq has TMS, Ioniq is within budget also).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvjkSAlv0ng

Apart from that long commute I wouldn't really need the Leaf for any other routine long journeys.

Wonder would it be worth waiting for the 2019 Leaf to come out, does anybody know if there will be a 2019 Leaf even? Link below seems to suggest it will but not until late next year.
https://electrek.co/2018/01/04/nissan-leaf-2019-specs-range-charging/

Also with the ETVI scheme for tolls where the toll is 50% of what a petrol/diesel vehicles are , do you need to set up a toll tag for that?

Sorry about all the questions, just wondering if the 2018 leaf is easy to live with for the commute I have each week. 

Cheers.

Mechatronical

Hi all,

Was checking this thread out as I was hoping to get a Hyundai Kona for a company car but unfortunately it is not within our budget. 

The 2018 leaf is within the budget however I have worries about the range. I need to head from Collooney Sligo to Cellbridge once per week and return a few days later (~ 190km one way). On the brochure I have been provided it specs the current 2018 model to have 270kmh range (I assume this is with the EPA range @ 243km)

My question is this, is the current Leaf capable of making that trip in Winter (standard national road (N4) turning to motor way around Mullingar (M4)) The part of N4 around Sligo would have a few hilly parts but nothing major.  I was checking out the ESB charging map and was thinking I may need to stop at Enfield Service station (45KM CHAdeMO charging point) on the M4 and charge there for 30 mins to complete my journey. 

I have been checking out some videos regarding the leaf and come across a video where a guy tested the range of the Leaf in British Columbia where the Leaf struggled badly (albeit in wintery conditions with a lot of driving on hilly roads). Obviously not a perfect comparison but is this something I would come to expect from the car including the long charge times due to the lack of TMS.  The lack of active battery cooling seems to be a real drawback for this car. (link below). Wondering is the lower battery capacity Hyundai Ioniq easier to live with in terms of the time spent waiting for it to charge (given the Ioniq has TMS, Ioniq is within budget also).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvjkSAlv0ng

Apart from that long commute I wouldn't really need the Leaf for any other routine long journeys.

Wonder would it be worth waiting for the 2019 Leaf to come out, does anybody know if there will be a 2019 Leaf even? Link below seems to suggest it will but not until late next year.

https://electrek.co/2018/01/04/nissan-leaf-2019-specs-range-charging/

Also with the ETVI scheme for tolls where the toll is 50% of what a petrol/diesel vehicles are , do you need to set up a toll tag for that?

Sorry about all the questions, just wondering if the 2018 leaf is easy to live with for the commute I have each week. 

Cheers.

KCross

You'd probably have to drive at ~100km/h to be sure in winter.
The TMS side of things wont matter in this particular case because you will be starting out at 100% and getting to your destination without charging.

If you do want to stop to charge on the way it would only be a splash and dash so again rapidgate would not come into play.

After that its down to whether you can get your hands on a s/h Ioniq (somewhat difficult) or just buy a new Leaf (should be easy to do).

Get a Leaf on loan for a w/end and try the commute. Thats the only true way to satisfy yourself.

unkel

Get both an Ioniq and a Leaf on loan to check the route and then decide for yourself what you prefer. You seem to have done your research well, but I wonder do you know that the public network has both CHAdeMO and CCS fast charging, but this network is not in a good state and is already getting congested? And that there is a private network coming that only has CCS charging (so no Leaf can charge there)? Also you can only charge 1 car at a time at the public charging network. And you will be able to charge 6 cars at a time at the private network

Also if you do stop, a "fast" charge in a Leaf from 20-80% on the current network takes 1-2 hours* and the same charge for the same range in Ioniq takes just 20 minutes (and less than 15 minutes on above private network)

* the advertising standards commission in the UK found the 1 hour for the charge that Nissan advertised misleading. It could take a lot longer. See posts above.

As KCross rightly said, if you never need a fast charge, then these slow charge times of the Leaf (google #rapidgate) and the CHAdeMO charging system and the state of the public charging network are not relevant. But if you do, Leaf wouldn not be a good choice. Neither Leaf nor Ioniq can do the 190km in winter at 120km/h on a charge. You can make it in the Leaf at about 100km/h and in Ioniq at about 110km/h rough guesses

KCross

unkel wrote: »

...And that there is a private network coming that only has CCS charging (so no Leaf can charge there)? Also you can only charge 1 car at a time at the public charging network. And you will be able to charge 6 cars at a time at the private network

Will Ionity be on his route? If not, its a bit moot.

unkel

We don't know, but the M4 on the Dublin side at least is one of the busiest motorways in the country, so I presume so. There are 9 Ionity stations planned for Ireland for the next 14 months, but only 3 planning applications have been lodged at this point afaik

Quite likely that there will be more Ionity stations after 2019, after all, this country is going EV only for all private cars over the next decade or two.

Markcheese

DrPhilG wrote: »

To expand on this, my 2014 Leaf would take almost 10 hours to charge to 100% from flat.

Given that the likes of the new Kona and e-Niro have 3 times the usable capacity of my Leaf, charging them on a 3-pin plug would be a long oul wait!

True, but an easy quick and cheap way for a lot of firms to give charging capacity at work carparks would be to stick one or two blue 15 amp weather proof plugs at carpark lampposts, if youre spending 7 or 8 hours at work, that'd give a fair boost in range, for very little complication....

grudgehugger

Mechatronical wrote: »

Hi all,

Was checking this thread out as I was hoping to get a Hyundai Kona for a company car but unfortunately it is not within our budget. 

The 2018 leaf is within the budget however I have worries about the range. I need to head from Collooney Sligo to Cellbridge once per week and return a few days later (~ 190km one way). On the brochure I have been provided it specs the current 2018 model to have 270kmh range (I assume this is with the EPA range @ 243km)

My question is this, is the current Leaf capable of making that trip in Winter (standard national road (N4) turning to motor way around Mullingar (M4)) The part of N4 around Sligo would have a few hilly parts but nothing major.

I’ve had the L40 for a few months - my first EV.

I rarely drive as far as you need to although do plan a trip to Sligo at Halloween. Athlone’s the furthest I’ve gone so far.

My guess is you could do it on a single full charge if you drive efficiently (no more than 105, no sudden changes in speed etc.)

Driving to Athlone from Greystones (156km) was grand in Summer provided I didn’t drive fast. The L40 eats battery at “normal” motorway speeds.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Also if you do stop, a "fast" charge in a Leaf from 20-80% on the current network takes 1-2 hours*

Ah here...

I'm one of the biggest #rapidgate critics on here but that's just as misleading as Nissan themselves.

I charged 10% to 80% on a 2018 Leaf in 45 minutes. Could likely have done 20-80% in below 40.

Only on a second charge are you likely to meet rapidgate. I've only seen maybe 2 examples of it happening on a first charge and both had extenuating circumstances like extremely high ambient temperatures.

DrPhilG

Markcheese wrote: »

True, but an easy quick and cheap way for a lot of firms to give charging capacity at work carparks would be to stick one or two blue 15 amp weather proof plugs at carpark lampposts, if youre spending 7 or 8 hours at work, that'd give a fair boost in range, for very little complication....

Absolutely. I've been campaigning my employer to do just that.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ah here...

Did you not see the finding? 20-80% in 60 minutes was still found to be misleading. The conclusion from that finding alone is that it can take significantly longer than an hour.

This is not my opinion, or my subjective feelings. This is the finding from the Advertising Standards Agency in the UK after official complaints (which it upheld)

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Did you not see the finding? 20-80% in 60 minutes was still found to be misleading. The conclusion from that finding alone is that it can take significantly longer than an hour.

This is not my opinion, or my subjective feelings. This is the finding from the Advertising Standards Agency in the UK after official complaints (which it upheld)

The findings relate to rapidgate and the fact that under certain circumstances the 20-80 in an hour is completely wrong.

"under certain circumstances" is the key in that sentence.

Even for me with a heavy foot and high enough mileage, rapidgate would be a once or twice a year occurrence.

You are suggesting that it's the norm.

DrPhilG

To clarify that further...

Nissan say 20-80% in an hour. 95% of the time they're correct.

You say 20-80% in 1-2 hours. 95% of the time you're wrong.

Who's the one guilty of false advertising here?

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

To clarify that further...

Nissan say 20-80% in an hour. 95% of the time they're correct.

You say 20-80% in 1-2 hours. 95% of the time you're wrong.

Who's the one guilty of false advertising here?

Clearly Nissan, as per the ASA

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly Nissan, as per the ASA

Wait til they get their hands on Unkel!

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

Proper scaremongering.

The odds of it happening are very small.

3 cars in front of him at Enfield

"Cathal Doyle: How I fared driving from Dublin to Mayo in an electric car"

Linky

This will become very common. It probably already is. Not scaremongering, reality.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Who's the one guilty of false advertising here?

It's not my opinion dude. I'm only reporting what was officially upheld in the UK.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

It's not my opinion dude. I'm only reporting what was officially upheld in the UK.

Nope, you said that charging 20-80% "takes 1-2 hours". Not could take, but does take.

What was upheld in the UK was that Nissans's claim of 20-80% in 60 minutes was misleading because sometimes it takes longer.

unkel

So Nissan are no longer allowed to advertise that it "only" takes an hour to charge from 20-80%

In practice it can take significantly longer. Is that better, Phil?

If we ever get someone to post a vid on youtube that in fact it took them 2 hours to charge from 20-80%, you are prepared to have to eat your hat? :pac:

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

Nope, you said that charging 20-80% "takes 1-2 hours". Not could take, but does take.

What was upheld in the UK was that Nissans's claim of 20-80% in 60 minutes was misleading because sometimes it takes longer.

unkel wrote: »

So Nissan are no longer allowed to advertise that it "only" takes an hour to charge from 20-80%

In practice it can take significantly longer. Is that better, Phil?

If we ever get someone to post a vid on youtube that in fact it took them 2 hours to charge from 20-80%, you are prepared to have to eat your hat? :pac:

I think we're dealing in semantics gents.

It CAN take up to 2 hours, but it "DOESNT" because that's not everytime. It CAN also take 40 minutes

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I think we're dealing in semantics gents.

I edited my post to take out that very word

But you are right of course. We all know what #rapidgate means in practice. I was actually quite surprised that the complaint was upheld as on far more fast charges than not would you be able to charge from 20-80% within an hour.