Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Annie get your Run

mr spuckler wrote: »

that dog is brilliant! the guy has posted a video before of the dog running along the seafront by clontarf and right along alfie byrne road while he cycles nearby. i passed him this morning at the end of the cycle path on alfie byrne road, just as the dog was obediently hopping back in :cool:

Raven, coolest dog on the planet, isn't citizen wolf a boardsie too?

mr spuckler

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Raven, coolest dog on the planet, isn't citizen wolf a boardsie too?

the name rings a bell alright. i must chat to him (Raven, not CW ) some morning, i see him quite often on my commute.

AndrewJRenko

punisher5112 wrote: »

People make mistakes in all vehicles and walking and just in general.

That's true. But when cyclists or pedestrians make mistakes, they don't kill other people.

Arcade_Tryer

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think the most likely response to such a campaign would be to give up cycling.

By that logic, people would give up driving after witnessing such ads involving motorists.

I don't think the smashed-glass-and-graves ads really do make people think all that differently. Sensitive people already drive responsibly, and oafs never think these things apply to them.

They really do. Otherwise they would not be used, especially given their graphic/offensive nature etc. They may not significantly change people's behaviour long term, but they generate a discussion, and cause people to stop to think just for a moment when done correctly. Such ads can be effective, and if cyclists are to be considered equal and valid road users like cars, then such ads should be utilised imo. People are more affected by blood and tragedy than safety and sensitivity.

tomasrojo

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

By that logic, people would give up driving after witnessing such ads involving motorists.

People aren't nearly as scared of being killed when in a car. Also, they have the illusion of control when they're at the wheel.

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

They really do. Otherwise they would not be used, especially given their graphic/offensive nature etc.

No, their effect is small.

Without enforcement and/or education a mass media campaign has virtually no effect in terms of reducing the number of road accidents

Again, I'm sure they make sensitive people more aware. I'm sure they make people who walk or cycle more aware. But the thundering cretins who cause most serious injuries are not sensitive people, or people who habitually walk or cycle.

tomasrojo

Incidentally, the section devote to "fear" campaigns in that study is worth reading.

For example:

Even when people are sympathetic to the plight shown by the fear appeal and feel that the recommended precautions are both sensible and doable, the fear-appeal will not have the intended effect if people do not believe that the consequences shown will ever happen to them. Only if people feel that the portrayed consequences are relevant to themselves and feel they are able to take the preventive measures the campaign proposes, does the fear-appeal have a chance to work.

And the contrast with the Netherlands (I was vaguely aware that they do a lot more joke-y campaigns):

In the Netherlands, for example, there is a long tradition of road safety advertising with an emphasis on humour rather than fear. This in contrast to countries such as Australia, New Zealand, the United States, and Great Britain that often show explicit pictures of crashes, casualties, injuries and blood, and the related emotions of pain, sorrow and grief of traffic victims and relatives

The Netherlands campaign to tell cyclists that they needed to use lights, but that lights attached to their person rather than the bike were acceptable was effective, and it didn't feature any unlit cyclists being pitchforked into eternity.

Chuchote

Behavioural theory suggests that ads aren't effective because they don't happen at the time you're carrying out a behaviour.

If you're training a dog, for instance, it is more important to reward "four paws on the floor" the dog is about to leap up on someone - though of course you have to train it beforehand.

My own feeling would be that random rewards for good driving behaviour would work much better for changing driving behaviour - eg have a bunch of 'good fairies' on bikes or mopeds who'd knock randomly at drivers' windows at lights and hand them a certificate and a token for a meal or a film or a concert, specifically saying "You signalled in good time" or "You gave that cyclist a wide berth" or "You stopped on the orange". (I don't know how this could work for mobile phone use :pac: ) The fact that a nice reward is a possibility often makes for better behaviour than a threat would. (Like the famous Bangalore scheme that ended dodging bus fares by running a lottery on bus tickets.)

Unknown Soldier

Moflojo wrote: »

"Fuuuuuuh....." - my reaction when watching that.

You know when you've seen so many of these videos and you reckon you know what's going to happen, and then something even more ludicrous happens?! I was watching it with my 'Robocop' vision on, scanning and identifying potential suspects, and then that crazy lethal driver comes out of nowhere. I think I'd have been going for a quick sit down in the grass verge after that one.

It's not actually that nice when it's not a near miss. Quite sore really.

I was going around the walkinstown roundabout when the following happened Jan 2015

That nano-second before impact..


And then lying on a very busy roundabout...

Chuchote

That roundabout in Walkinstown is absolutely terrifying. Incredibly confusing when you're driving through it, horrible to cycle. Hope you're better.

amcalester

I usually give KN Group branded vehicles a wide berth.

Kaisr Sose

Hope you are ok. At least you have it recorded front head and rear! Don't be shy going to Crumlin Gda Stn!

It ironic, on the way home, one of the same liveried vehicles was parked on the cycle lane on Castle Street. Causing chaos for busses unable to pass if there was traffic coming down the hill. The driver was in the shop!

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Hope you are ok. At least you have it recorded front head and rear! Don't be shy going to Crumlin Gda Stn!

according to unknown soldier, the impact does not happen for another 88 years though.

ED E

amcalester wrote: »

I usually give KN Group branded vehicles a wide berth.

In certain circles they're referred to as Kentucky Fried Networks.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

according to unknown soldier, the impact does not happen for another 88 years though.

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

It's not actually that nice when it's not a near miss. Quite sore really.

I was going around the walkinstown roundabout when the following happened Jan 2105

Magicbastarder's point brings up another - if that's a mistake from confusion, get yourself checked for concussion, Unknown Soldier.

magicbastarder

maybe the impact knocked him into the future.

Unknown Soldier, are they still using rim brakes in the 22nd century?

Kaisr Sose

magicbastarder wrote: »

according to unknown soldier, the impact does not happen for another 88 years though.

I missed that. Assuming it's 2015, there is little point in going the Gda Route. And knowing you are blitzing it up and down Gunny Hill, you are well mended!

josip

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe the impact knocked him into the future.

Unknown Soldier, are they still using rim brakes in the 22nd century?

Did he have to hit 88mph to get there?

AndrewJRenko

amcalester wrote: »

I usually give KN Group branded vehicles a wide berth.

I've seen their drivers using phones, iPads and in one case, using a laptop while driving.

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

(Like the famous Bangalore scheme that ended dodging bus fares by running a lottery on bus tickets.)

That's pretty clever.

Arcade_Tryer

tomasrojo wrote: »

No, their effect is small.

Even if it doesn't result in significant changes to driver behaviour, the campaign could at least create a discourse whereby cyclist safety is at the centre of the discussion. The current debate needs to change drastically from drivers v cyclists, to cyclists being vulnerable road users who are in significantly more danger from drivers than vice versa. At the moment, from reading online comments and listening to certain imbeciles on the radio, you'd swear cyclists are some kind of drones who serve only to cause annoyance to real road users; cars, buses and trucks. The human face needs to be put on cyclists; the head inside the helmet, the body beneath the lycra, the family waiting at home.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

That's pretty clever.

If you liked that, you might try one of my favourite books, Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor, about training animals (and humans) using positive reinforcement.

AndrewJRenko

Chuchote wrote: »

(Like the famous Bangalore scheme that ended dodging bus fares by running a lottery on bus tickets.)

Was it Stockholm that had a monthly raffle for any driver NOT caught speeding on camera?

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Even if it doesn't result in significant changes to driver behaviour, the campaign could at least create a discourse whereby cyclist safety is at the centre of the discussion. The current debate needs to change drastically from drivers v cyclists, to cyclists being vulnerable road users who are in significantly more danger from drivers than vice versa. At the moment, from reading online comments and listening to certain imbeciles on the radio, you'd swear cyclists are some kind of drones who serve only to cause annoyance to real road users; cars, buses and trucks. The human face needs to be put on cyclists; the head inside the helmet, the body beneath the lycra, the family waiting at home.

The human face is a good idea, but you could also appear to the selfishness of drivers. Educate them on the idea that in most cases, a cyclist = one less car on the road, so they get to do their journey quicker.

Unknown Soldier

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe the impact knocked him into the future.

Unknown Soldier, are they still using rim brakes in the 22nd century?

Yes. Vintage Canyons are much sought after. Worth more than they were in the early part of the century. The common thought that bikes just go down in value was turned on it's head by me in a post in 2020 when I sold a Canyon for more than I paid for it, Ferrari style.

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I missed that. Assuming it's 2015, there is little point in going the Gda Route. And knowing you are blitzing it up and down Gunny Hill, you are well mended!

Yes it was 2015, and I am well mended. What really hurt was lying on the walkinstown roundabout for the guts of 10-15 mins as no one would let me up, half of Dublin must have went past me, and did I get a "man down" thread here? No! Yet some dude a week later fell of his bike in Sligo or somewhere and he got one!

It did get the "fear" PTSD stylie. That's why I go cycling at stupid O'clock when I can, rather than commute to work, which I did a lot.
It cause me a huge amount of mental anguish, as I am not prone to be afraid or cowardly. I was gifted with the "stupid" gene which overrides things like that.

It did however educate me, the farmer culchie type, other ways. If someone got seriously assaulted on a night out, down a dark ally, and developed a fear of going out at night by themselves, you'd get that, or I would anyway. But if someone had their house broken into and then didn't want to live there anymore, the old me would have thought they were going a tad overboard but I get it now. We are just that grey lump in a skull, and that lump can be shock-wired, as well as all the other lovely things.

Once the insurance stuff and all that was sorted, I kind of did rewire my brain and started commuting again. It was hard going at first but I more or less got there. Just went out early and avoided most of the traffic.

And then a twat nearly hit me on a roundabout again. Kaiser probably remembers the video. Bar putting a f$$king lighthouse on my head I couldn't be more visible. I'm practically a poster boy for safe cycling! I still use my front and rear light now, during the daylight.

Anyway, I'm back to ground Zero for commuting but will get back into it, still re-wiring grey matter.

On a side note, when it comes to insurance companies and what an "accident" costs you, do think carefully. By default of the above mentionings, because I didn't want to think about it or be reminded of it, I spent 18 months not thinking, eh thinking. I started using a company car, for example. BIK was a cost, along with fuel.

My list of "costs" ended up being quite long but genuine. They don't refund excess smoking and drinking btw.

Sorry for the long post, but someone, sometime, might benefit from it. Possibly in 2105.

papu

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

-snip

This was a great post, thank you for taking the time to write it, the repercussions of getting knocked down are rarely talked about.

Kaisr Sose

papu wrote: »

This was a great post, thank you for taking the time to write it, the repercussions of getting knocked down are rarely talked about.

It was the same for me. Accident last June. Over €2k of Med bills (and not finished), over 6 months of commuting cost and a couple of extra kg (though kept it under 70) . The unquantifiable is the countless 'lost days' feeling spaced out and weeks of dreadful sleep. You can't put a price on quality sleep!

Ray Palmer

Has anybody else noticed pedestrians standing with their feet over the curb? It seems to be something a lot of recent immigrants people do but overall more and more people are doing it. It just seems people are forgetting the basics of crossing roads. I have seen people slip doing it too and it makes me very nervous at certain spots.

ED E

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

It did get the "fear" PTSD stylie. That's why I go cycling at stupid O'clock when I can, rather than commute to work, which I did a lot.
It cause me a huge amount of mental anguish, as I am not prone to be afraid or cowardly. I was gifted with the "stupid" gene which overrides things like that.

The road I was hit on is near the parents place. Five years later and I still get off onto the footpath rather than await the right turn. Really doesn't leave you.

Chuchote

Coming around a corner yesterday (turning right across a T junction. I'd finished the turn and was going straight when a taxi came up behind me, also turning and passed within about 30cm, and onwards to stop in a queue for a red light.

I went up beside him and knocked gently on the driver's side window, and he wound it down, looking nervous.

"I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you came awfully close to me back there."

"Where? I didn't even see you!" He looked genuinely horrified.

I waved my large and bizarre hi-viz gilet. "Look at all my hi-viz! You didn't see me! Back at the corner there. You came around this close. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but…"

"I didn't see you at all!"

We parted friends; he's still trying to puzzle out how Scotty beamed me into the road.

tomasrojo

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Even if it doesn't result in significant changes to driver behaviour, the campaign could at least create a discourse whereby cyclist safety is at the centre of the discussion. The current debate needs to change drastically from drivers v cyclists, to cyclists being vulnerable road users who are in significantly more danger from drivers than vice versa.

Sorry, Arcade_Tryer, didn't notice your reply till now.

I think people are quite aware already that cyclists are vulnerable. The hatred directed towards cyclists is mostly a way of rationalising awful behaviour, rather than generating the awful behaviour, which arises really from impatience and a sense of entitlement.

I'm not saying that no campaign can help with this issue, but a campaign showing cyclists being run over will just result in people giving up cycling.

Telling people that they'll gradually sink into ill health if they don't eat right doesn't work. Nor do appeals to the young to give up smoking. They lack immediacy and viscerality. But graphically showing cyclists getting butchered will reduce the number of cyclists being killed on the road ... by persuading a large number of cyclists to find an alternative mode of transport.

Danbo!

Had some absolute lunatic in a Mercedes Vito tailgate and flash me today while I was driving. I came up behind 3 lads out for a spin. Was waiting to round a slight bend so I could see ahead and give them enough clearance, but the guy in the merc obviously thought different and was gesturing for me to hurry up. He went absolutely berserk when he got alongside me at a roundabout. Said to the wife "how could you get that stressed waiting 20 seconds, especially on a day with weather like this".

Then some f**k nipped into a parking space I was waiting on and she had to remind me what I had said 10 minutes earlier