Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Danjamin1

Cycling to work in Dublin this morning, it's really hard to see how people can have such a blinkered view to rulebreaking on the road when it comes to cyclists. Cars & bikes breaking lights in equal measure.

Had a very near miss over the weekend, though it was in my car rather than on a bike. Was driving to Mayo and coming up to a blind bend two vehicles behind me came roaring up doing roughly 150kmh at a conservative estimate, the lead vehicle tucked in behind me but the following vehicle overtook us both on a completely blind bend at that speed. He was on the right hand side of the road going round a near 90 degree turn! This is what we share the roads with, it f**king madness!

I think I've gotten so used to close passes on the bike I don't consider them near misses these days.

Pinch Flat

Had to drive to Lough Dan on Sunday top pick up Pinch Flat junior from a cub camp. Beautiful day and roads busy with cyclists. Drove up from Kilmacanogue, heading towards Roundwood. Just after the turn for Sugar Loaf, it's a straight road with solid white lines.

https://goo.gl/maps/93Dtfb5j5qn

Girl in front of me in an L-plate passed an elderly cyclist at 80km/hr with literally inches to spare - drove past him as if he wasn't there. A wide open country road with no cars coming the opposite way. He was naturally furious.

Unreal that someone learning to drive can display that level of ignorance passing a cyclist.

CramCycle

Coming through Bray on Friday evening. Sitting at the crossroads, the right filter light goes on and the car beside me starts to move through the junction to go straight on. Not only has she misread the lights, but she has missed the 5 cars turning in front of her. Thankfully the van that was midturn hit the horn and she slammed on the brakes. Then sat there as cars drove around her, Eventually the light goes green but she doesn't move. So while stuck on a junction, she decides, despite her previous error, now is a good time to take out the phone and start texting furiously.

I let a roar at her to put the phone down, she didn't, she actually just glanced up and put her head down. She eventually moved off and blocked the junction for so long that she had created a traffic jam behind her as only two other vehicles got through on green (and I was one of them).

Kaisr Sose

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Unreal that someone learning to drive can display that level of ignorance passing a cyclist.

That's part of the problem. Driving like this is not checked early enough and becomes ingrained ...then it's a free for all. The amount of times I have seen an L or N plated car whizzing through red or turning without indication (to name just two issues) is unreal. Due to the age profile, these are a future snap shot of driving behaviour

Moflojo

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

That's part of the problem. Driving like this is not checked early enough and becomes ingrained ...then it's a free for all. The amount of times I have seen an L or N plated car whizzing through red or turning without indication (to name just two issues) is unreal. Due to the age profile, these are a future snap shot of driving behaviour

We have fingerprint technology for unlocking our mobile phones and the majority happily uses it for its convenience and security, whatever about the potential infringement of personal privacy.

The same technology should be mandated for all modern cars with a view to properly regulating things like unaccompanied L and N drivers. The fingerprint of a designated Full License Holder should be required to unlock the car for the L/N driver's use.

Pinch Flat

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

That's part of the problem. Driving like this is not checked early enough and becomes ingrained ...then it's a free for all. The amount of times I have seen an L or N plated car whizzing through red or turning without indication (to name just two issues) is unreal. Due to the age profile, these are a future snap shot of driving behaviour

Had a L-driver pop out of the traffic lane and into the free bus lane on Thursday last week, he saw the empty bus lane and went for it. Just coming to the lights Merrion Square North. Nearly hit me, as I was travelling up the bus lane. I decided to challenge him at the lights. "So when's your test". Puzzled look with a few ems and errs. Completely clueless.

magicbastarder

Moflojo wrote: »

The fingerprint of a designated Full License Holder should be required to unlock the car for the L/N driver's use.

what happens if you're not in range of any data connection? sounds like a €50 solution to a €5 problem.

cython

Moflojo wrote: »

We have fingerprint technology for unlocking our mobile phones and the majority happily uses it for its convenience and security, whatever about the potential infringement of personal privacy.

The same technology should be mandated for all modern cars with a view to properly regulating things like unaccompanied L and N drivers. The fingerprint of a designated Full License Holder should be required to unlock the car for the L/N driver's use.

Not sure why you are referring to N drivers here, when they are not required to be accompanied?

A much more straightforward solution would be for Gardai to get off their arses and start spot-checking cars displaying L plates with only a single occupant. While that may result in a lot of people being stopped unnecessarily in cars that their children also drive (and similar situations), that in itself would have the benefit of hopefully making the L driver think twice about driving unaccompanied in future, due to the real chance of being caught. At the moment the odds of being caught (as with so many other offences) are low enough that most people consider it an acceptable risk.

Moflojo

cython wrote: »

Not sure why you are referring to N drivers here, when they are not required to be accompanied?

Are they not? My apologies, I thought there was a period where they had to be accompanied after passing the test. What is the relevance of the 'N'? Is there a lower blood alcohol threshold for breath testing? Or more severe penalties for driving offences?

Chips Lovell

That's it. Lower blood alcohol threshold. And lower threshold of penalty points before disqualification.

LpPepper

N plate drivers can only get 7 points before being disqualified instead of the 12 point threshold for everyone else.

Based on my own experience (now a Non N-Plater) all the N plate done was make other drivers act similarly towards N platers as L platers e.g. pulling out in front of you, overtaking just for the sake of it and otherwise aggressive driving...

Type 17

Moflojo wrote: »

Are they not? My apologies, I thought there was a period where they had to be accompanied after passing the test. What is the relevance of the 'N'? Is there a lower blood alcohol threshold for breath testing? Or more severe penalties for driving offences?

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

That's it. Lower blood alcohol threshold. And lower threshold of penalty points before disqualification.

...and lower levels of driving experience (you don't really learn to drive properly (if you ever do) until after you pass your test).

cython

Moflojo wrote: »

Are they not? My apologies, I thought there was a period where they had to be accompanied after passing the test. What is the relevance of the 'N'? Is there a lower blood alcohol threshold for breath testing? Or more severe penalties for driving offences?

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

That's it. Lower blood alcohol threshold. And lower threshold of penalty points before disqualification.

Nail on the head, plus providing warning to other drivers that the driver is a novice and to potentially afford them more space, as they have had L plates 24 hours previously. Novice drivers can also not be an accompanying driver for an L driver, but that's not really anything to do with plates any more than the alcohol or penalty points limits

After all, the primary purpose of L plates is to give other drivers notice that the driver is inexperienced and learning, and not to highlight unaccompanied drivers, since it was within the last 15 years that those on a second provisional were not required to be accompanied, but they still had to display L plates. Similarly N plates are there to advise of a newly-qualified driver. Another key difference is that (AFAIK at least), you only have to display N plates the first time you gain a full license, whereas you always have to have L plates when driving on a learner permit. i.e. if I were to pass a D1 test, while I would have to display L plates as a learner, I do not need to display N plates ever, as I have a B license already.

Danbo!

Deedsie wrote: »

It's definitely getting worse in Dublin. I've been working late for the last month so getting out of the office around 19:00...

the behaviour of motorists is shocking, cycling down baggot street this evening I put my arm out indicating I was turning right onto Waterloo road. An older "gent" undertakes me and then turns onto Waterloo road in front of me. I mean he saved 0.5 seconds, endangered me and I'll be honest his driver door would have got a serious boot had I not been able to stop in time. It's infuriating.

In many years cycling, I've only been undertaken during a right hand turn maybe three times, but it absolute baffles me. Near misses, close passes, risky manoeuvres, all the other **** we see most days can be put down to ignorance, mistakes (hey we all make them), poor spatial awareness, the list goes on...

But undertaking a cyclist turning right just takes a special kind of driver. I mean, do they think it through and assume they'll beat us around the corner? Do they not think it through at all? Don't they realise the cyclist will be aiming pretty much for the kerb as the round the bend? I really just don't get it.

ED E

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

That's it. Lower blood alcohol threshold. And lower threshold of penalty points before disqualification.

All futile when you have 8k drivers on the road with multiple disqualifications. Need to make a ban mean something first (cough ANPR gantries).

CramCycle

ED E wrote: »

All futile when you have 8k drivers on the road with multiple disqualifications. Need to make a ban mean something first (cough ANPR gantries).

It really makes no sense, when ANPR could readily be deployed across every red light, every toll, and then a few random posts around the country. The money from other offences would justify the cost, as well as the possibility of average speed calculations.

Chuchote

ED E wrote: »

All futile when you have 8k drivers on the road with multiple disqualifications. Need to make a ban mean something first (cough ANPR gantries).

8,000 disqualified drivers on the road with multiple disqualifications? Source?

amcalester

Chuchote wrote: »

8,000 disqualified drivers on the road with multiple disqualifications? Source?

Published in The Irish Times a few times, here's one example.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-8-000-multiple-ban-drivers-still-behind-wheel-rsa-1.2926993

Chuchote

amcalester wrote: »

Published in The Irish Times has published a few times, here's one example.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-8-000-multiple-ban-drivers-still-behind-wheel-rsa-1.2926993

One solution would be to take the car away if someone who's disqualified drives; if it's a borrowed car, tough on the person who lent it…

RayCun

Chuchote wrote: »

One solution would be to take the car away if someone who's disqualified drives; if it's a borrowed car, tough on the person who lent it…

usually cheap cars

amcalester

Chuchote wrote: »

One solution would be to take the car away if someone who's disqualified drives; if it's a borrowed car, tough on the person who lent it…

Or that the registered owner is prosecuted, either with points or a disqualification of their own.

Either way though, the risk of getting caught is so low that it'll make little difference.

Annie get your Run

amcalester wrote: »

Published in The Irish Times a few times, here's one example.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-8-000-multiple-ban-drivers-still-behind-wheel-rsa-1.2926993

Jesus that's shocking :eek: am genuinely taken aback by those figures. There are times when you feel that there is so much sh1t that there's no way to sort it all out. Is this another example of a lack of Garda resources or just complete and utter inefficiency of the force?

Pinch Flat

Courier van this morning. Wearing a Dublin jersey. All he needed was a copy of The Sun on the dashboard to confirm his identity as someone who's lowering the the collective IQ of the country. I'm going to name him Anto for this story. He was definitely an Anto and not a Daymo.

Anyway, I was taking my lane turning right at Christchurch heading towards St. Patrick's. Looked around, stuck my arm out, indicating right. Anto though has other ideas - he's obviously on some sort of job bonus that the father of 10 years old child and someone's husband of 17 years is not going to get in the way of.

Anyway, Anto tries to undertake me - I'm following a car in front of me, who's also going right. I'm not sure where Anto thought his 2 tonne van was going to fit, but anyway he continues to try and undertake me, then pulls in on top of me, almost hitting me. At this point, I inquired through his rolled down window if Anto was a bit simple or just blind.

Apparently, according to Anto, cyclists shouldn't be on the road and should be using the cycle lane to his left, to which he gesticulated to frantically. I pointed out to Anto that if my commute meant cycling straight ahead or only turning left, I would have no hesitation in using the cycling lane. But in the odd occasion when I do have to turn right I'll use the traffic lane to do so. This concept seemed to confuse Anto, and he took a few moments to process it before returning some pearls of wisdom. I also pointed out to Anto that I have equal rights to use the road as he has.

"I was cycling in the middle of the road and deserve to be run over."
"You cyclists are a shower of pr!cks"
"It's cyclists' fault that so many of us get killed on the roads given how we cycle."

Before departing on my way and leaving Anto stuck in traffic, I asked Anto if he'd just learned to drive, or perhaps just got his driving licence from a lucky bag. Thinking back, it's probably the only exam Anto's passed.

Anto probably did pick up that copy of The Sun shortly after our interaction.

Chips Lovell

Size of the Garda Traffic Corps has fallen from 1,200 to 700 over past few years.

Even prior to the drop the level of enforcement wasn't great.

Being realistic, it'll be years before it's fixed. The ongoing scandals regarding the leadership, a gangland war, and a tight public purse mean that enforcing road traffic offences is way down the list of priorities.

Chuchote

amcalester wrote: »

Or that the registered owner is prosecuted, either with points or a disqualification of their own.

Either way though, the risk of getting caught is so low that it'll make little difference.

Take the car away, name the person on a website, tell all the insurance companies, if the person is driving for a company, check all that company's drivers, and name the company on the same website, tell all the insurance companies that one/more of its drivers was on the road after being banned…

Kaisr Sose

CramCycle wrote: »

It really makes no sense, when ANPR could readily be deployed across every red light, every toll, and then a few random posts around the country. The money from other offences would justify the cost, as well as the possibility of average speed calculations.

Spot on.

Zero non cycle road tax (aka motor tax) NCT and insurance Dodgers too!

Edit
The ANPR project rollout stalled a while back for insurance as the Garda were saying they were not getting accurate/timely database information from the insurance companies. Cars getting taken when the insurance was in place.

Only in Ireland.....

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-forced-to-pull-technology-that-detects-uninsured-drivers-1.2198863%3Fmode%3Damp

Up to 2019 for full rollout, but the set up costs are being paid for by the insurance companies

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/full-garda-number-plate-recognition-may-take-until-late-2019-1.3020733%3Fmode%3Damp

Danbo!

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Spot on.

Zero non cycle road tax (aka motor tax) NCT and insurance Dodgers too!

Ah just stick a garda on Patrick Street inbound in the mornings to catch people in the bus lane, you'd be able to abolish USC before 9am with the income.

Chips Lovell

ANPR is not a magic. Not yet at least.

When it was introduced in 2014 (at a cost of ?6 million) into Garda cars, the cops had to pull it almost straight away because it was flagging almost every car it scanned as uninsured.

As recently as December, they were still having problems.

However it relies on information provided by the insurance industry in connection with insured drivers.

This data set has proved to be unreliable ? industry sources said the unwillingness of motor insurers to take responsibility for the provision of clean data had garda? ?tearing their hair out in frustration

By this time, the Motor Insurers? Bureau of Ireland (MIBI) estimated there were 150,000 uninsured drivers on Irish roads.

I love Sean nos

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Is this another example of a lack of Garda resources or just complete and utter inefficiency of the force?

Why is it an either/or?

CramCycle

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Spot on.

Zero non cycle road tax (aka motor tax) NCT and insurance Dodgers too!

Edit
The ANPR project rollout stalled a while back for insurance as the Garda were saying they were not getting accurate/timely database information from the insurance companies. Cars getting taken when the insurance was in place.

Only in Ireland.....

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-forced-to-pull-technology-that-detects-uninsured-drivers-1.2198863%3Fmode%3Damp

Up to 2019 for full rollout, but the set up costs are being paid for by the insurance companies

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/full-garda-number-plate-recognition-may-take-until-late-2019-1.3020733%3Fmode%3Damp

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

ANPR is not a magic. Not yet at least.

When it was introduced in 2014 (at a cost of ?6 million) into Garda cars, the cops had to pull it almost straight away because it was flagging almost every car it scanned as uninsured.

As recently as December, they were still having problems.



By this time, the Motor Insurers? Bureau of Ireland (MIBI) estimated there were 150,000 uninsured drivers on Irish roads.

Legislate that lack of notification by the insurance company to the gardai within 10days will be a penalty to the insurnace company that covers lost garda time and other sundries, plus an incentive of 100euro per day per policy. Build in a 14day leeway to every policy in regards notifications on ANPR. Hey Presto.

I swear politicians want companies and law breakers to get away with this sort of rubbish.