Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

tuxy

omri wrote: »

Smirk all you want. I cant be bothered when Im in 2 tonnes car.

Please stop feeding this troll.

omri

So I bullied them because I gave a little beep, and that makes me a prick of whatever else was said earlier?

I would suggests mods look into that.

How should they react - I would imagine the same way the two other guys did, moving to the side and leaving plenty of room for everyone. Nobody felt bullied imo, nobody was pushed off into the ditch. I went on the opposite lane there was plenty of room between my car and their bodies. Happy days.

Am I pretending to be a cyclist maybe, who knows. Do you know that for sure? I feel like you do. Did you know I was bringing kids to and from school on a cargo for over 2yrs? Did I call you whatever you called me?

At the end of the day you just have a helmet on your head and car will pretty much kill you regardless of the speed. So be humble, have some respect. I’m a driver and I’m a cyclist. Seen plenty of bad and good drivers. Seen the same of cyclists. Shared my experience today, thought it was bad enough to mention it.

And honestly what you do with it is up to you. Just don’t offend me because I talked about it.

And PS is this vulnerable road user smth taken out if Trumps propaganda like “fake news” etc. My kids and wife in the car were put in danger by irresponsible cyclists - how does this sound to you?

Please mods do intervene because this is turning personal and whatever you might think of my or others views it should stay this way rather than turning into this personalized abuse.

Ah here you're sounding more and more like you graduated from the school of After Hours as the night goes on :rolleyes:

Duckjob

Instead of dismissing what I'm saying as "warrior cyclist rhetoric" maybe you could be constructive and actually drill down into the points I've made ?

- is it warrior cyclist rhetoric to point out that a speed limit doesn't represent a speed that must be reached? To me that's just a reasonable statement of fact.

- is it warrior cyclist rhetoric to argue that that a duty of care and safety to other road users must trump the need of convenience every single time and if all road users would accept and abide by this principal the roads would be safer for all?

Next time I'm driving into town and I encounter a tailback of traffic shouldnt those cars try to move in out of my way so I can pass? I mean, on a 50kph road I can't be expected to sit behind them other cars at 2kph right?

Omri, like many other you appear to have a somewhat distorted view of what "sharing the road" means. It means different road users using the road at the same time- no more than that. It doesn't say anything about road users have to make way for other road users to get to where they're going quicker.

AndrewJRenko

omri wrote: »

Now you can try to shrug off the responsibility from the cyclists to the que of the cars behind them. But truth be told even tractors give way after a while around these roads that I experienced this last few days.

They simply carried on, while the cars before and after me had to overtake them with as much room as they decided to leave for that manouver.

We can argue all night but since its a road with 100kmh speed limit I dont think any car is expected to trail the cyclists for x miles until they form a single file.

Do you pull over when driving in heavy urban traffic every time a faster cyclist comes up behind you?

omri wrote: »

So be humble, have some respect.

Is this the nub of the issue - that cyclists are some kind of 2nd class citizens in your book that have to 'be humble' and 'show respect' instead of being treated like humans, like people, like parents, brothers, sisters, daughters, son first time and every time.

omri wrote: »

I’m a driver and I’m a cyclist. Seen plenty of bad and good drivers. Seen the same of cyclists. Shared my experience today, thought it was bad enough to mention it.

My kids and wife in the car were put in danger by irresponsible cyclists - how does this sound to you?

I guess the main difference between the bad cyclists and the bad drivers is that the bad cyclists don't kill 2 or 3 people each week, unlike the bad drivers. Cyclists don't generally kill people's wives/kids inside cars.

magicbastarder

omri wrote: »

Please mods do intervene because this is turning personal and whatever you might think of my or others views it should stay this way rather than turning into this personalized abuse.

if you feel any posts have begun to turn to personal abuse, please report them.

for the sake of transparency, as i became involved in the debate, i will not be part of any moderation process relating to them. i hope that is expected/understandable.

omri

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you pull over when driving in heavy urban traffic every time a faster cyclist comes up behind you?

I don’t but very often I make more room for cyclists. Anyway I’m not going to change my mind on this. Shared this here because I do care about cyclists while driving a car or using a bike. Perhaps separate post would create less confusion since people here seemed to think I caused a near miss, which is not true. This isnt city traffic, this is I would imagine a standard irish road which means a narrow one with crazy speed limit. Cars were actually going pretty fast on it and participants of that charity ride could have been either educated better by organizers or simply behave in a somewhat safer manner. And since someone mentioned road sharing, at that particular place it was more like owning than sharing. Even my wife was somewhat surprised by that (she doesnt drive or cycle so i would imagine it was a neutral opinion).

AndrewJRenko

omri wrote: »

I don’t blah blah blah

So why would you expect other people to move over for you? Are your journeys more important than anyone else's?

tuxy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So why would you expect other people to move over for you? Are your journeys more important than anyone else's?

Might = Right

Two tonnes!

omri

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So why would you expect other people to move over for you? Are your journeys more important than anyone else's?

So you say that the entire fleet of cars was to trail that charity cycle for miles on end? Is that what you mean?

AndrewJRenko

omri wrote: »

So you say that the entire fleet of cars was to trail that charity cycle for miles on end? Is that what you mean?

Are you somehow responsible for the 'entire fleet'? I thought you were responsible for your own car and your own driving.

So again, why would you expect others to show you the courtesy that you fail to show them?

Weepsie

If it was the sportive I think it was, it was fairly well highlighted by local media well in advance, signposted, marshalled (and has been run for a few years now), had support vehicles front and back then I honestly think the only one whose behaviour can be called into question is your own.

Stop beeping. It's for one arrogant. Secondly you're not supposed to anyway. And it can do the exact opposite to what you intend and intimidate vulnerable road users.

omri

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you somehow responsible for the 'entire fleet'? I thought you were responsible for your own car and your own driving.

So again, why would you expect others to show you the courtesy that you fail to show them?

I’m obviously not going to fall for this If farmers have some etiquette to make way for a build up of traffic so does the rest of the road users. As do cars do for say an ambulance.

Now what youre saying I should not be allowed to overtake cyclists while my point is they were able to make more room ahould they choose to. Just so it happened I was the first car in this batch of cars coming onto the back of them. Make no mistake there were manu more ahead of me as there must have been many more after.

So maybe you should define what should be in you opinion ideal conditions for overtaking. Since I was on the opposite lane and had ditch/hedge to my right and some of the cyclists decided to occupy entire lane regardless. Some decided to move to left while still cycling two abreast - which in my view is the correct course of action. Yet you seem to disagree. In your opinion we were to follow them until they finished their ride should they not choose to bunch up a bit.

AndrewJRenko

omri wrote: »

I’m obviously not going to fall for this If farmers have some etiquette to make way for a build up of traffic so does the rest of the road users. As do cars do for say an ambulance.
.

But no etiquette for motorists to make way for a build up of cyclists?

omri

Weepsie wrote: »

If it was the sportive I think it was, it was fairly well highlighted by local media well in advance, signposted, marshalled (and has been run for a few years now), had support vehicles front and back then I honestly think the only one whose behaviour can be called into question is your own.

Stop beeping. It's for one arrogant. Secondly you're not supposed to anyway. And it can do the exact opposite to what you intend and intimidate vulnerable road users.

On that particular stretch of road I only saw marshalled ad narrow bridge that allowed for single car passage and it was more for the coming cars. And then I think at the end in some small village. Didn’t read about it in any paper, didnt expect it, the group was atretched but it only had a van at the front.

What’s the point of the horn if youre not supposed to be using it? I feel way more intimidated by cars/busses and trucks passing me by at high speed and close than by a car who beeped well in advance and gave plenty of room when overtaking. I don’t expect you to understand or agree but that my strong view and belief.

And especially when some people listen to music while cycling and some were having conversations with each other while taking the entire lane 2 or 3 abreast.

omri

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But no etiquette for motorists to make way for a build up of cyclists?

The group was stretch quite a bit. Sorry I didnt take a picture for you. But you just have to believe me.

AndrewJRenko

omri wrote: »

The group was stretch quite a bit. Sorry I didnt take a picture for you. But you just have to believe me.

I'm asking about driving in the city - why is there no etiquette for motorists to move over for faster cyclists?

Seth Brundle

omri wrote: »

On that particular stretch of road I only saw marshalled ad narrow bridge that allowed for single car passage and it was more for the coming cars. And then I think at the end in some small village. Didn’t read about it in any paper, didnt expect it, the group was atretched but it only had a van at the front.

What’s the point of the horn if youre not supposed to be using it? I feel way more intimidated by cars/busses and trucks passing me by at high speed and close than by a car who beeped well in advance and gave plenty of room when overtaking. I don’t expect you to understand or agree but that my strong view and belief.

And especially when some people listen to music while cycling and some were having conversations with each other while taking the entire lane 2 or 3 abreast.

I think it was Mark Twain that said "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
I'm out of this now!

Duckjob

You're saying cyclists need "be humble and have respect" while also admitting you beep at other road users to let them know they're in your way and stopping you getting where you're going as quickly as you think you *should* be getting to where you're going.

Where's the humility and respect there?

You couldn't make this up.

Lambay island

The last few pages - What a lovely bank holiday Monday Morning read. Don't know if your man is trolling or genuinely believes if he is correct. If its the latter, its that exact mindset why so many people are afraid to cycle in this country. Reasons like this is why I have to message my wife if I'm leaving work later than normal so she is not worrying why I'm not home at usual time etc. Beeping in situations like that is callous, despite the reasons you give yourself for doing it.

ganmo

His point about tractors having to pull over for faster traffic is something that I think should be applied to all road traffic, horses, cyclists the lot...where he fell down was the fact the rule doesnt apply to cyclists at the moment so just deal with it, breathe and relax.

AndrewJRenko

ganmo wrote: »

His point about tractors having to pull over for faster traffic is something that I think should be applied to all road traffic, horses, cyclists the lot...where he fell down was the fact the rule doesnt apply to cyclists at the moment so just deal with it, breathe and relax.

Last time I looked, there was no explicit law that requires tractors or other slow traffic to pull over. The one much-publicised case in recent years in Mayo was a case of careless driving or something similar, rather than any explicit 'pulling over' law.

magicbastarder

the case in mayo was also prosecuted on some nonsense testimony from a garda which wasn't challenged in court, too.

magicbastarder

bloody hell, even the irish times got the headline wrong (i.e. they used the nonsense testimony):
Tractor driver banned over 7km traffic tailback
Brian McGuinness fined €300 for tailback involving 80-100 vehicles on Westport road
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/tractor-driver-banned-over-7km-traffic-tailback-1.2177126

if it was 80 vehicles, that's nearly 100m between cars - doing 20km/h? at that speed you'd have had a car every 20m, or tighter.
i think i read in a different article that the garda stated the tailback was 7km long, because he drove 7km overtaking it. which is such an abject failure of logic that the tractor driver should have fired his solicitor for not spotting it.

ganmo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Last time I looked, there was no explicit law that requires tractors or other slow traffic to pull over. The one much-publicised case in recent years in Mayo was a case of careless driving or something similar, rather than any explicit 'pulling over' law.

It's in the rules of the road
"...driving a tractor, you should keep left to let faster traffic pass."
Theres also
"Maintaining safe and reasonable progress when driving"
And that's where I'll leave it

Fighting Tao

ganmo wrote: »

It's in the rules of the road
"...driving a tractor, you should keep left to let faster traffic pass."
Theres also
"Maintaining safe and reasonable progress when driving"
And that's where I'll leave it

I’m not saying that it’s not the law, however the Rules of the Road are an RSA interpretation of the laws and have had inaccuracies and some completely made up BS in them in the past.

Weepsie

ganmo wrote: »

It's in the rules of the road
"...driving a tractor, you should keep left to let faster traffic pass."
Theres also
"Maintaining safe and reasonable progress when driving"
And that's where I'll leave it

Rules of the road are not statute/law. They're no more than advisory guidelines.

I'm amazed at how many people like to quote some obscure rotr and are ignorant of some pretty clear laws

AndrewJRenko

ganmo wrote: »

It's in the rules of the road
"...driving a tractor, you should keep left to let faster traffic pass."
Theres also
"Maintaining safe and reasonable progress when driving"
And that's where I'll leave it

Rules of the Road is not law. The actual charge was 'driving without reasonable consideration'.


https://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/77206/tractor-driver-banned-from-road-for-causing-seven-mile-tailback

magicbastarder

huh, it's a seven mile tailback now.

Weepsie

magicbastarder wrote: »

huh, it's a seven mile tailback now.

Given that in the phoenix park about 300 cars can park the length of and still not be gate to gate, I don't know how on earth this 7 mile thing was accepted. Even accounting for braking space between vehicles (which it it was so slow was likely not that much)

The guard overtaking 100 vehicles was probably the most dangerous thing in all that