US may attack North Korea first

prinzeugen

China is the threat.

https://warontherocks.com/2017/02/has-china-been-practicing-preemptive-missile-strikes-against-u-s-bases/

The tremors in NK were not nuclear tests..

They were Kim Jong falling out of bed.

hungry hypno toad

Beasty wrote: »

What if there was a civil war?


(in the USA:pac:)

What, when California votes to leave or are kicked out?

CiDeRmAn

threeball wrote: »

China will not support any measure that leads to a more populous, more powerful Korea. South Korea are an international economic powerhouse as it stands. With even cheaper labour available from their northern cousins in the event of unification they'd be a very significant player on the global stage challenging chinas position in the region due to their closeness to the west.

So, basically, North Korea acts like a big red rag for the US and her allies in the region, a handy nation of misdirection for the Chinese?
As long as a nutter like NK are around, focusing attention and military resources, Taiwan and other disputed territory go less supported.
And, as you say, the uncertainty of a neighbour like NK has to generate an economic penalty on SK.

StudentDad

Just what we need A re-run of the Korean war, only this time with the possibility of nukes. Not to mention the possibility of it spreading from the Korean peninsula. Fantastic. I hope the hawks that are considering this get their wings clipped.

SD

BorneTobyWilde

Would the Shy Knees retaliate on North Korea's part if the US did indeed take out North Korea's missile capabilities with air strikes/

threeball

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So, basically, North Korea acts like a big red rag for the US and her allies in the region, a handy nation of misdirection for the Chinese?
As long as a nutter like NK are around, focusing attention and military resources, Taiwan and other disputed territory go less supported.
And, as you say, the uncertainty of a neighbour like NK has to generate an economic penalty on SK.

Exactly, the chinese may be many things but they're no dopes. If NK disappeared tomorrow who would be the next boogey many of East Asia. My money is on the Chinese. Too commie for the Yanks, expansion must be stopped at all costs. Right now its the classic 3 card trick.

threeball

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Would the Shy Knees retaliate on North Korea's part if the US did indeed take out North Korea's missile capabilities with air strikes/

Whats to say they don't interpret it as a strike against themselves. I'd bet they'd have birds in the air as soon as the Yanks left the carrier. Losing NK is not in chinese interests. Making it interesting to china is the only way you get any co-operation/blind eye from them.

nacho libre

If there was a real threat of North Korea striking first with a nuclear weapon, the Chinese would carry out a coup to get rid of the dear leader.
Kim seems to enjoy the gilded life, he is not going to engage in a court of action that will deprive him of that.

RobertKK

North Korean state media said the whole world would soon witness a "great victory and what that represents".

threeball

nacho libre wrote: »

If there was a real threat of North Korea striking first with a nuclear weapon, the Chinese would carry out a coup to get rid of the dear leader.
Kim seems to enjoy the gilded life, he is not going to engage in a court of action that will deprive him of that.

Probably annex it themselves at the same time under the pretence of maintaining regional stability. No chance they want it having any chance of unifying with the south

CiDeRmAn

RobertKK wrote: »

North Korean state media said the whole world would soon witness a "great victory and what that represents".

That could be a Kim having a bowel movement.

threeball

RobertKK wrote: »

North Korean state media said the whole world would soon witness a "great victory and what that represents".

US Masters is coming up. Given his auld fellas handicap id say the devine leader is odds on for the green jacket.

Manic Moran

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm living in Xi'an, which is very close to China's main Aeronautical and 'Space' sites. It's definitely a primary target... Admittedly, my province has a population of about 37m people, so that might make any western power hesitate.

Out of curiousity, and this is beside the point, what effect does the Great Firewall of China have upon you? (Obviously, you're able to access boards...)

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

Man power,
Plane and simple the USA can't beat it, they'll never win against a national of zealots following their great leader

It really depends on whether the missile shield works or not. If it can work, then N.Korea will be destroyed. South korea supported by US technology... without US troops on the ground, China won't have the excuse to intervene, and Russia won't mind another power in Asia to balance against China.

http://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/south-korea.north-korea

Admittedly from 2013:
https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/8/1365409925375/North-Korea-v-South-Korea-001.jpg


Without the threat of Nuclear strikes, S.Korea would destroy N.Korea..

Manic Moran

Manic Moran wrote: »

Out of curiousity, and this is beside the point, what effect does the Great Firewall of China have upon you? (Obviously, you're able to access boards...)

It's more annoying than anything else. Facebook/google are unreachable, and the google SEO tools on most servers/websites slows internet speeds (since google is blocked).. American media is a no no. As are a few European sites. Irish sites are usually fine to access... although boards often becomes unreachable.

I have a VPN, but recently Beijings Internet security group has been playing with all the ports so theres not much improvement from just surfing normally.

TBH I don't mind it. I can access enough media sites from smaller neutral countries, and I've never been interested in social media.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

It's more annoying than anything else. Facebook/google are unreachable, and the google SEO tools on most servers/websites slows internet speeds (since google is blocked).. American media is a no no. As are a few European sites. Irish sites are usually fine to access... although boards often becomes unreachable.

I have a VPN, but recently Beijings Internet security group has been playing with all the ports so theres not much improvement from just surfing normally.

TBH I don't mind it. I can access enough media sites from smaller neutral countries, and I've never been interested in social media.

I was reading an article a few weeks ago and besides blocking sites apparently one of the biggest issues is speed. One of the most obvious issues is that when you make a DNS look up the firewall can slow it down, even if it allows it. So you get really laggy internet there.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

I was reading an article a few weeks ago and besides blocking sites apparently one of the biggest issues is speed. One of the most obvious issues is that when you make a DNS look up the firewall can slow it down, even if it allows it. So you get really laggy internet there.

I can get 4 mb/s from steam on my ultra firewalled university connection, so it's not that bad.

But browsing websites can really drag at times.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

It really depends on whether the missile shield works or not. If it can work, then N.Korea will be destroyed. South korea supported by US technology... without US troops on the ground, China won't have the excuse to intervene, and Russia won't mind another power in Asia to balance against China.

http://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/south-korea.north-korea

Admittedly from 2013:
https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/8/1365409925375/North-Korea-v-South-Korea-001.jpg


Without the threat of Nuclear strikes, S.Korea would destroy N.Korea..

The big problem for south korea is the thousands of north korean artillery pieces aimed at seoul. The south would probably win in a conventional war, assuming the chinese didnt intervene, but at enormous cost.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The big problem for south korea is the thousands of north korean artillery pieces aimed at seoul. The south would probably win in a conventional war, assuming the chinese didnt intervene, but at enormous cost.

The problem with a static defense is that the enemy knows your possibilities just as much as you do. That Artillery threat has been there for decades, and S.Korea would be idiots not to have many strategies for dealing with it. S.Korea has a far larger income to play around with, and they've had the time to develop counters.

I suspect they've never used them because the threat of S.Korea keeps their own citizens reasonably under control, and gain the benefits of US support for decades.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem with a static defense is that the enemy knows your possibilities just as much as you do. That Artillery threat has been there for decades, and S.Korea would be idiots not to have many strategies for dealing with it. S.Korea has a far larger income to play around with, and they've had the time to develop counters.

I suspect they've never used them because the threat of S.Korea keeps their own citizens reasonably under control.

Even if the south struck first they could only take out a fraction of them before the north opened up. It doesnt matter how sophisticated the south is massed artillery is still a threat. They've never used them because they exist as a deterrent. The north are in no position to start a war.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Even if the south struck first they could only take out a fraction of them before the north opened up. It doesnt matter how sophisticated the south is massed artillery is still a threat. They've never used them because they exist as a deterrent. The north are in no position to start a war.

Neither side is. The loss in life would be horrific. I don't think war would start there.... without pressure or direct influence of the big three. China, Russia, or the US. China has chosen to open up Asia to expansion. Everyone is focusing their attentions there more, and more. There will be more game changing moves before one of the Big Three get directly involved.

Pac1Man

War never changes.

topper75

super_furry wrote: »

I'd put money on Trump invading a country on a major scale before the next election. It's the only thing that could get him re-elected.

No appetite for that with Joe Public in U.S.A. And Trump knows that. That is one strong reason why he was elected - isolationism. Let the world stew in its own crap and make America Great. He won't take nonsense from China, NK, Iran etc. but he won't seek out trouble like W did.

Option B - Hilary - on the other hand ... thankfully we never will know.:pac:

Jelle1880

topper75 wrote: »

No appetite for that with Joe Public in U.S.A. And Trump knows that. That is one strong reason why he was elected - isolationism. Let the world stew in its own crap and make America Great. He won't take nonsense from China, NK, Iran etc. but he won't seek out trouble like W did.

Option B - Hilary - on the other hand ... thankfully we never will know.:pac:

Drone attacks have already ramped up compared to under Obama and they're getting involved big time in Yemen. His claims before the election that he would not get the US embroiled in needless conflicts already seems forgotten.

Hillary wouldn't have taken crap from Russia, this whole idea that she would have started a war however is based on absolutely nothing.
But when Trump stands up against China, NK, Iran,... (he's not really though, is he ?) he's somehow brave ?

Capt'n Midnight

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

And, as you say, the uncertainty of a neighbour like NK has to generate an economic penalty on SK.

As I keep pointing out South Korea's military spend is roughly the same as the North's total GDP.

Japan spends even more.

Capt'n Midnight

RobertKK wrote: »

North Korean state media said the whole world would soon witness a "great victory and what that represents".

Juche in time for Eurovision :pac:

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/multimedia/videos?id=260952

archer22

Bad and all as Kim Jong Un is alleged to be, I bet he still wouldn't be bad enough to round up girls for getting pregnant, throwing them into concentration camps and then slinging their babies into septic tanks.
Not to mind rounding up orphans and throwing them into Paedo camps.

But then shur where would you find a country like that?.

suicide_circus

archer22 wrote: »

Bad and all as Kim Jong Un is alleged to be, I bet he still wouldn't be bad enough to round up girls for getting pregnant, throwing them into concentration camps and then slinging their babies into septic tanks.
Not to mind rounding up orphans and throwing them into Paedo camps.

But then shur where would you find a country like that?.

You heard it here first folks; ireland is worse than north korea

threeball

suicide_circus wrote: »

You heard it here first folks; ireland is worse than north korea

Theres always one. Hopefully hes booking his tickets and applying for a visa as we speak but somehow i doubt it.