Is there any justice?

onetimecypher

Angela Kerins loses case against the PAC in District, Circuit, High and Supreme Courts, but doesn't want to pay HER costs, NOR DOES SHE WANT TO PAY THEIR COSTS, but wants the taxpayer to pay for everything, because she felt she was right.

Gilligan loses appeal in Supreme Court, after 20 year fight, and cost of millions to taxpayers, but gets to stay in his HOUSES AND PROPERTIES, for a little longer.

Drunk Driver, speeding, ALREADY BANNED FROM DRIVING, with almost 500 previous convictions, CRASHES AND KILLS OTHER DRIVER, gets SUSPENDED SENTENCE.

PLEASE DISCUSS IRISH nonJUSTICE

Samuel T. Cogley

Will it be a discussion with no ranting, will well made points be conceded and will we eventually arrive at a conclusion not already drawn?

Tayschren

onetimecypher wrote: »

Angela Kerins loses case against the PAC in District, Circuit, High and Supreme Courts, but doesn't want to pay HER costs, NOR DOES SHE WANT TO PAY THEIR COSTS, but wants the taxpayer to pay for everything, because she felt she was right.

Gilligan loses appeal in Supreme Court, after 20 year fight, and cost of millions to taxpayers, but gets to stay in his HOUSES AND PROPERTIES, for a little longer.

Drunk Driver, speeding, ALREADY BANNED FROM DRIVING, with almost 500 previous convictions, CRASHES AND KILLS OTHER DRIVER, gets SUSPENDED SENTENCE.

PLEASE DISCUSS IRISH nonJUSTICE

None of these people instigated these cases, why should they pay?

hungry hypno toad

Tayschren wrote: »

None of these people instigated these cases, why should they pay?

Pretty sure Kerins instigated the court cases, no?

MrBobbyZ

Kerins was seeking damages, so she took the case, no?

Robbo

Moderation: I was prepared to let this run for a bit to see if it fitted in. However, it's off to the Court of Public Opinion in AH for ye. Please observe the AH charter from this point onwards.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Will it be a discussion with no ranting, will well made points be conceded and will we eventually arrive at a conclusion not already drawn?

Robbo wrote: »

Moderation: I was prepared to let this run for a bit to see if it fitted in. However, it's off to the Court of Public Opinion in AH for ye. Please observe the AH charter from this point onwards.

Oh so it will be, absolutely then... :pac:

onetimecypher

MrBobbyZ wrote: »

Kerins was seeking damages, so she took the case, no?

Kerins sought damages, after being found guilty.

Gilligan sought relief after being found guilty.

ALL SCUMBAGS ARE GUARANTEED AN APPEAL, AND MOST GET OUT UNTIL THEN,

BUT , WHY SHOULD TAXPAYER PAY PAY FOR THE GUILTY?

ScumLord

As long as justice is bought and sold it's not justice in my opinion. Our legal system (well everybody's legal system) shouldn't cost people so much money.

Grayson

onetimecypher wrote: »

Kerins sought damages, after being found guilty.

Gilligan sought relief after being found guilty.

ALL SCUMBAGS ARE GUARANTEED AN APPEAL, AND MOST GET OUT UNTIL THEN,

BUT , WHY SHOULD TAXPAYER PAY PAY FOR THE GUILTY?

At the moment I'm wondering why you aren't in prison for gross abuse of the caps lock key.

endacl

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Will it be a discussion with no ranting, will well made points be conceded and will we eventually arrive at a conclusion not already drawn?

NOT WITH THAT MANY CAPS IN THE OP, IT WON'T!!!!!!

antodeco

onetimecypher

Grayson wrote: »

At the moment I'm wondering why you aren't in prison for gross abuse of the caps lock key.

Badabing, badabong, flash, bang, wallop,

Can we get back to the question?

onetimecypher

onetimecypher wrote: »

Badabing, badabong, flash, bang, wallop,

Can we get back to the question?

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

Glenster

onetimecypher wrote: »

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

No to all the above?

TBH I dont think you should be given that sort of power OP.

Have a cup of tea and a sit down.

DanMurphy

Quick Kate,
a cuppa strong sweet tea for onetimecypher...

OH, you're having your breakfast...sorry.
Later maybe?

endacl

SPEAK UP, OP! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

Gavlor

onetimecypher wrote: »

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

YOU'RE TALKING TO YOURSELF

nuac

onetimecypher wrote: »

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

Trolling by OTC
Pls stop

Winterlong

OP, see ya monday morning outside the 4 courts. Bring a placard. This needs a protest.

THIS NEEDS A PROTEST DAMNIT.

(Am I doing this right?)

mynamejeff

is there any justice ?

no

get over it move on

Arcade_Tryer

ScumLord wrote: »

As long as justice is bought and sold it's not justice in my opinion. Our legal system (well everybody's legal system) shouldn't cost people so much money.

Ireland has a legal industry. An incredibly lucrative one.

Samuel T. Cogley

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Ireland has a legal industry. An incredibly lucrative one.

We have a Common Law adversarial system that means that people want the best lawyers, therefore they pay. The system is also deliberately set up so there is a bar to entry. Otherwise the every time someone planted a Leylandii there would be a court case.

The system is regulated by legal aid being available and costs not being awarded against parties where the case was of public importance.

It's not perfect, however it is relatively cheap to the tax-payer. I'm all for Scumlord's approach but we'd have to build a new courts and probably increase the number of barristers by a factor of four and double the number of solicitors. All that would simply mean we'd be paying for it in tax.

Love2love

I find our system infuriating. I remember in 1 week back in 2015, a man walked free after admitting to raping his girlfriend whilst she slept, another walked free after running a red light, crashing into a Luas and killing a lady and another walked free (revenue employee) after defrauding that state of thousands. Any judge who sits over a case is limited in what they can do because other judges / cases have set a precedent. A judge who makes the wrong remark when sentencing can cause the whole case to be struck out. What can actually be done about it??

Samuel T. Cogley

Love2love wrote: »

I find our system infuriating. I remember in 1 week back in 2015, a man walked free after admitting to raping his girlfriend whilst she slept, another walked free after running a red light, crashing into a Luas and killing a lady and another walked free (revenue employee) after defrauding that state of thousands. Any judge who sits over a case is limited in what they can do because other judges / cases have set a precedent. A judge who makes the wrong remark when sentencing can cause the whole case to be struck out. What can actually be done about it??

Well an understanding of our legal system would help and I'm not trying to be smart here. People are genuinely very ill-informed on how the law works. We do have a lot of elements of the English Common Law but most of our day to day law is codified in legislation. Furthermore the Irish Constitution places limits of Judges in Ireland in comparison to England when it comes to the common law. These Acts inform the legal system as to what can and can't happen in a case. For example, a guy gets done for 'Careless Driving' the maximum he can serve is two years, notwithstanding his 180 (IIRC) previous motoring convictions.

Okay so what can be done in that case? Well nothing by lawyers and Judges. One could ask the DPP why they (in the name of the people) prosecuted Careless driving but I think the best bet would be to look at what TDs are doing, who we're voting for and what sort of legislation they're producing.

As for judges making the wrong remarks, usually in charges to juries, we have a robust appeal process but what we tend to do is have very bright people, with a huge knowledge and understanding of the law with decades of experience sitting on the bench in the higher courts. We then ask them not to make many mistakes, but alas even Judges are human.

However one of the first thing even those of us with third rate degrees learn in criminal law is civilised nations have predicated there criminal law on Blackstone's Ratio:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Fleawuss

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

However one of the first thing even those of us with third rate degrees learn in criminal law is civilised nations have predicated there criminal law on Blackstone's Ratio:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Fleawuss Ratio:
For every ten guilty persons that walk free from an Irish court at least 40% will reoffend and at least four innocent people will suffer who need not have suffered.

CSO figures show convicted and probation refoffending rates at 40% or above so I'm being conservative in saying those who get away with things will re offend at at least a similar rate.

Blackstone's ratio is the high sounding bilge that legal types use to justify their failed system and keep the gravy train rolling.

Samuel T. Cogley

Fleawuss wrote: »

Blackstone's ratio is the high sounding bilge that legal types use to justify their failed system and keep the gravy train rolling.

If you were on the gallows for a crime you didn't commit you might think otherwise.

mynamejeff

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If you were on the gallows for a crime you didn't commit you might think otherwise.

wouldn't there be significantly less criminals and crime though and safer more peaceful world ?

unfair to some but better for every one in the end
rather than unfair to everyone and better for some (criminals)

Pat Mustard

DanMurphy wrote: »

Quick Kate,
a cuppa strong sweet tea for onetimecypher...

What is this "Kate" business about?

"I'm having breakfast, Kate" etc.

I googled it but all that comes up is Kate Middleton or whatever she is called now.

please helpThank YOU

Is there Justice the answer to that is Justice is the next life courts are man made laws never trust courts criminal /family courts you will never get Justice there.

Fleawuss

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If you were on the gallows for a crime you didn't commit you might think otherwise.

There is no death penalty in Ireland.

Esel

Pat Mustard wrote: »

What is this "Kate" business about?

"I'm having breakfast, Kate" etc.

I googled it but all that comes up is Kate Middleton or whatever she is called now.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057686148/1/#post102078851

please helpThank YOU

ask the Guildford four about Justice Miscarriages of Justice so I ever time your in court in Ireland just think what Justice will do to You.

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

ask the Guildford four about Justice Miscarriages of Justice so I ever time your in court in Ireland just think what Justice will do to You.

that wasnt an irish court also it was politically motivated conviction

not at all close to the discussion here

please helpThank YOU

mynamejeff wrote: »

that wasnt an irish court also it was politically motivated conviction

not at all close to the discussion here

Miscarriages of Justice Michael Feichin Hannon Galway Wrongly convicited of sexually assaulting a ten year old girl that man was declared miscarriage of Justice by the irish courts we also have nun Nora Wall jailed for life in 1999 for a crime she did not do wrongfully convicted of rape jailed for life she was exonerated and that is just 2 so I would not have any fate so ever on the irish/ireland Justice court its very unfair.there is no Justice

Samuel T. Cogley

mynamejeff wrote: »

wouldn't there be significantly less criminals and crime though and safer more peaceful world ?

unfair to some but better for every one in the end
rather than unfair to everyone and better for some (criminals)

There might be less crime. We can introduce draconian methods as long as we're willing to pay for them. Whether living in a police state is 'better for everyone' has to be decided by the individual. My understanding is there was very little crime in Nazi Germany and a great sense of community spirit.

Samuel T. Cogley

Fleawuss wrote: »

There is no death penalty in Ireland.

There has been, and people hanged for crimes they didn't commit. That's enough of a reason to side with Blackstone on this one.

Pat Mustard

Esel wrote: »

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057686148/1/#post102078851

Thanks but I give up

DanMurphy

Pat Mustard wrote: »

What is this "Kate" business about?

"I'm having breakfast, Kate" etc.

I googled it but all that comes up is Kate Middleton or whatever she is called now.

The posts on 'Taking peoples questions literally' on After Hours

RiderOnTheStorm

There is no justice...... just us.

Noddyholder

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Miscarriages of Justice Michael Feichin Hannon Galway Wrongly convicited of sexually assaulting a ten year old girl that man was declared miscarriage of Justice by the irish courts we also have nun Nora Wall jailed for life in 1999 for a crime she did not do wrongfully convicted of rape jailed for life she was exonerated and that is just 2 so I would not have any fate so ever on the irish/ireland Justice court its very on fair.there is no Justice

Also the Nicky Kelly case,

Osgur Breatnach, Nicky Kelly, Brian Mcnally, Michael Plunkett, John Fitzpatrick were arrested and beaten by the Garda Síochána to extract confessions under duress from four (Plunkett did not sign). The four were found guilty with no other evidence apart from the confessions. Breatnach and McNally were acquitted on appeal on the grounds that their statements had been taken under duress. Kelly was given a presidential pardon and received £750,000 in compensation

Noddyholder

Co Meath man has said he is delighted after the Court of Criminal Appeal found his conviction for killing his 19-year-old neighbour more than 40 years ago was a miscarriage of justice.

Martin Conmey's conviction for the manslaughter of Una Lynskey in 1971 was quashed by the court in 2010.

This morning the court found that the conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

Mr Conmey, 63, said he was delighted the decision of the court had totally cleared his name.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0729/633746-martin-conmey/

Very interesting story there, Brutal muder of a girl, vigilante revenge and murder and a miscarriage of justice,

Here it is http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/profiles/40-years-waiting-to-clear-his-name-199954.html

please helpThank YOU

Noddyholder wrote: »

Also the Nicky Kelly case,

Osgur Breatnach, Nicky Kelly, Brian Mcnally, Michael Plunkett, John Fitzpatrick were arrested and beaten by the Garda Síochána to extract confessions under duress from four (Plunkett did not sign). The four were found guilty with no other evidence apart from the confessions. Breatnach and McNally were acquitted on appeal on the grounds that their statements had been taken under duress. Kelly was given a presidential pardon and received £750,000 in compensation

then we have garda Maurice Mccabe what the Justice system did to him hell on earth poor man I feel so sorry from makes me get very upset what the Justice did to him and others this just the tip of ice iceberg .

please helpThank YOU

Noddyholder wrote: »

Co Meath man has said he is delighted after the Court of Criminal Appeal found his conviction for killing his 19-year-old neighbour more than 40 years ago was a miscarriage of justice.

Martin Conmey's conviction for the manslaughter of Una Lynskey in 1971 was quashed by the court in 2010.

This morning the court found that the conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

Mr Conmey, 63, said he was delighted the decision of the court had totally cleared his name.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0729/633746-martin-conmey/

Very interesting story there, Brutal muder of a girl, vigilante revenge and murder and a miscarriage of justice,

Here it is http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/profiles/40-years-waiting-to-clear-his-name-199954.html

just read your post there is some amount of punches pilot who working for justice system in Ireland love to put pain into the heart of Innocent men /women . the list is growing by the day where a human rights in all this and the right to good name?

mynamejeff

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

There might be less crime. We can introduce draconian methods as long as we're willing to pay for them. Whether living in a police state is 'better for everyone' has to be decided by the individual. My understanding is there was very little crime in Nazi Germany and a great sense of community spirit.

well then you ll agree its about finding the correct balance,

something we do not have now

mynamejeff

Noddyholder wrote: »

Also the Nicky Kelly case,

Osgur Breatnach, Nicky Kelly, Brian Mcnally, Michael Plunkett, John Fitzpatrick were arrested and beaten by the Garda Síochána to extract confessions under duress from four (Plunkett did not sign). The four were found guilty with no other evidence apart from the confessions. Breatnach and McNally were acquitted on appeal on the grounds that their statements had been taken under duress. Kelly was given a presidential pardon and received £750,000 in compensation

and now kelly is a labour politician so he turned to crime in the end after all :D:D

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

then we have garda Maurice Mccabe what the Justice system did to him hell on earth poor man I feel so sorry from makes me get very upset what the Justice did to him and others this just the tip of ice iceberg .

aw come one now !!!


what was maurice mccabe convicted of ? what jail was he in ?

old allegations dug up by the media is that what you mean ?

Your Face

Anyone want to wrestle?
I'll wrestle, I don't care.

please helpThank YOU

mynamejeff wrote: »

aw come one now !!!


what was maurice mccabe convicted of ? what jail was he in ?

old allegations dug up by the media is that what you mean ?

What was done to Garda Maurice Mccabe. who is a hero is Great Nicest Man this was a depraved act by the state and government state agency tusla /hse /garda was pure evil thing to this very good man Garda Maurice Mccabe he is in Jail aright in his HEAD that is his jail. he his good name was taking from him by the evils of Ireland. god help this poor man what was done to him and others by the same to government state agency is act of pure evil. convicted luck the man is not dead from the stress of this nightmare

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

What was done to Garda Maurice Mccabe. who is a hero is Great Nicest Man this was a depraved act by the state and government state agency tusla /hse /garda was pure evil thing to this very good man Garda Maurice Mccabe he is in Jail aright in his HEAD that is his jail. he his good name was taking from him by the evils of Ireland. god help this poor man what was done to him and others by the same to government state agency is act of pure evil. convicted luck the man is not dead from the stress of this nightmare

is english your first language ? its hard to understand some of what you type.

I think your looking for a different thread

Samuel T. Cogley

mynamejeff wrote: »

well then you ll agree its about finding the correct balance,

something we do not have now

We have a pretty low crime rate and a situation where we see 'scumbags' essentially growing out of it once they start families of their own. The more expensive and safer solution is, essentially, to build more prisons. Are you willing to fund this with around a 3-4% increase in income tax on top of everything else like USC etc. I am, but that informs only my vote.

Once we had the prison places we'd have to deal with the knock on effect of a decrease in the 90% rate of people pleading guilty. We'd either have to build more courts or what I'm in favour of, running a night court. Legal aid budgets would need to increase in the short term, but they might decrease again once some of the more prolific offenders or repeat business, which ever way you want to look at it' find themselves behind bars for longer stretches.

Be under no illusion though. Conservative estimates place the cost of incarceration at €76,000 per year. We're paying that. It's also a hugely inefficient way of dealing with the problem and might actually lead to an increase in crime and recidivism if the US is used as a model.

As for striking a balance, this is ongoing. It's swinging away from individual rights of the accused and to the collective rights of the public at this very moment. Whether that's a good thing or not remains to be seen. This is all going on and is being done transparently and with a huge amount of thought, all one needs to do is go and look.