Is there any justice?

onetimecypher · 10-03-2017 04:57PM #1

Angela Kerins loses case against the PAC in District, Circuit, High and Supreme Courts, but doesn't want to pay HER costs, NOR DOES SHE WANT TO PAY THEIR COSTS, but wants the taxpayer to pay for everything, because she felt she was right.

Gilligan loses appeal in Supreme Court, after 20 year fight, and cost of millions to taxpayers, but gets to stay in his HOUSES AND PROPERTIES, for a little longer.

Drunk Driver, speeding, ALREADY BANNED FROM DRIVING, with almost 500 previous convictions, CRASHES AND KILLS OTHER DRIVER, gets SUSPENDED SENTENCE.

PLEASE DISCUSS IRISH nonJUSTICE

Samuel T. Cogley · 10-03-2017 06:03PM

Will it be a discussion with no ranting, will well made points be conceded and will we eventually arrive at a conclusion not already drawn?

Tayschren · 10-03-2017 06:04PM

onetimecypher wrote: »

Angela Kerins loses case against the PAC in District, Circuit, High and Supreme Courts, but doesn't want to pay HER costs, NOR DOES SHE WANT TO PAY THEIR COSTS, but wants the taxpayer to pay for everything, because she felt she was right.

Gilligan loses appeal in Supreme Court, after 20 year fight, and cost of millions to taxpayers, but gets to stay in his HOUSES AND PROPERTIES, for a little longer.

Drunk Driver, speeding, ALREADY BANNED FROM DRIVING, with almost 500 previous convictions, CRASHES AND KILLS OTHER DRIVER, gets SUSPENDED SENTENCE.

PLEASE DISCUSS IRISH nonJUSTICE

None of these people instigated these cases, why should they pay?

hungry hypno toad · 10-03-2017 06:06PM

Tayschren wrote: »

None of these people instigated these cases, why should they pay?

Pretty sure Kerins instigated the court cases, no?

MrBobbyZ · 10-03-2017 06:12PM

Kerins was seeking damages, so she took the case, no?

Robbo · 10-03-2017 06:21PM

Moderation: I was prepared to let this run for a bit to see if it fitted in. However, it's off to the Court of Public Opinion in AH for ye. Please observe the AH charter from this point onwards.

Samuel T. Cogley · 10-03-2017 06:25PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Will it be a discussion with no ranting, will well made points be conceded and will we eventually arrive at a conclusion not already drawn?

Robbo wrote: »

Moderation: I was prepared to let this run for a bit to see if it fitted in. However, it's off to the Court of Public Opinion in AH for ye. Please observe the AH charter from this point onwards.

Oh so it will be, absolutely then... :pac:

onetimecypher · 10-03-2017 06:30PM

MrBobbyZ wrote: »

Kerins was seeking damages, so she took the case, no?

Kerins sought damages, after being found guilty.

Gilligan sought relief after being found guilty.

ALL SCUMBAGS ARE GUARANTEED AN APPEAL, AND MOST GET OUT UNTIL THEN,

BUT , WHY SHOULD TAXPAYER PAY PAY FOR THE GUILTY?

ScumLord · 10-03-2017 06:35PM

As long as justice is bought and sold it's not justice in my opinion. Our legal system (well everybody's legal system) shouldn't cost people so much money.

Grayson · 10-03-2017 06:35PM

onetimecypher wrote: »

Kerins sought damages, after being found guilty.

Gilligan sought relief after being found guilty.

ALL SCUMBAGS ARE GUARANTEED AN APPEAL, AND MOST GET OUT UNTIL THEN,

BUT , WHY SHOULD TAXPAYER PAY PAY FOR THE GUILTY?

At the moment I'm wondering why you aren't in prison for gross abuse of the caps lock key.

endacl · 10-03-2017 06:36PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Will it be a discussion with no ranting, will well made points be conceded and will we eventually arrive at a conclusion not already drawn?

NOT WITH THAT MANY CAPS IN THE OP, IT WON'T!!!!!!

antodeco · 10-03-2017 06:39PM

onetimecypher · 10-03-2017 06:48PM

Grayson wrote: »

At the moment I'm wondering why you aren't in prison for gross abuse of the caps lock key.

Badabing, badabong, flash, bang, wallop,

Can we get back to the question?

onetimecypher · 10-03-2017 06:59PM

onetimecypher wrote: »

Badabing, badabong, flash, bang, wallop,

Can we get back to the question?

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

Glenster · 10-03-2017 07:03PM

onetimecypher wrote: »

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

No to all the above?

TBH I dont think you should be given that sort of power OP.

Have a cup of tea and a sit down.

DanMurphy · 10-03-2017 07:57PM

Quick Kate,
a cuppa strong sweet tea for onetimecypher...

OH, you're having your breakfast...sorry.
Later maybe?

endacl · 10-03-2017 08:33PM

SPEAK UP, OP! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

Gavlor · 10-03-2017 08:36PM

onetimecypher wrote: »

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

YOU'RE TALKING TO YOURSELF

nuac · 10-03-2017 09:01PM

onetimecypher wrote: »

What constitutes JUSTICE in Ireland?

Should I castrate my daughter's abuser
Should I kill my daughter's abuser
Should my family kill the accuser

NOT ALLOWED

And this week, should I postpone the trial of a known PAEDOPHILE , because he is MUSLIM, and it is not fair, to HIM, because he might not be right during MUSLIM RAMEDANN

Trolling by OTC
Pls stop

Winterlong · 10-03-2017 09:04PM

OP, see ya monday morning outside the 4 courts. Bring a placard. This needs a protest.

THIS NEEDS A PROTEST DAMNIT.

(Am I doing this right?)

mynamejeff · 10-03-2017 10:43PM

is there any justice ?

no

get over it move on

Arcade_Tryer · 11-03-2017 12:27AM

ScumLord wrote: »

As long as justice is bought and sold it's not justice in my opinion. Our legal system (well everybody's legal system) shouldn't cost people so much money.

Ireland has a legal industry. An incredibly lucrative one.

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-03-2017 10:47AM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Ireland has a legal industry. An incredibly lucrative one.

We have a Common Law adversarial system that means that people want the best lawyers, therefore they pay. The system is also deliberately set up so there is a bar to entry. Otherwise the every time someone planted a Leylandii there would be a court case.

The system is regulated by legal aid being available and costs not being awarded against parties where the case was of public importance.

It's not perfect, however it is relatively cheap to the tax-payer. I'm all for Scumlord's approach but we'd have to build a new courts and probably increase the number of barristers by a factor of four and double the number of solicitors. All that would simply mean we'd be paying for it in tax.

Love2love · 11-03-2017 11:12AM

I find our system infuriating. I remember in 1 week back in 2015, a man walked free after admitting to raping his girlfriend whilst she slept, another walked free after running a red light, crashing into a Luas and killing a lady and another walked free (revenue employee) after defrauding that state of thousands. Any judge who sits over a case is limited in what they can do because other judges / cases have set a precedent. A judge who makes the wrong remark when sentencing can cause the whole case to be struck out. What can actually be done about it??

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-03-2017 11:23AM

Love2love wrote: »

I find our system infuriating. I remember in 1 week back in 2015, a man walked free after admitting to raping his girlfriend whilst she slept, another walked free after running a red light, crashing into a Luas and killing a lady and another walked free (revenue employee) after defrauding that state of thousands. Any judge who sits over a case is limited in what they can do because other judges / cases have set a precedent. A judge who makes the wrong remark when sentencing can cause the whole case to be struck out. What can actually be done about it??

Well an understanding of our legal system would help and I'm not trying to be smart here. People are genuinely very ill-informed on how the law works. We do have a lot of elements of the English Common Law but most of our day to day law is codified in legislation. Furthermore the Irish Constitution places limits of Judges in Ireland in comparison to England when it comes to the common law. These Acts inform the legal system as to what can and can't happen in a case. For example, a guy gets done for 'Careless Driving' the maximum he can serve is two years, notwithstanding his 180 (IIRC) previous motoring convictions.

Okay so what can be done in that case? Well nothing by lawyers and Judges. One could ask the DPP why they (in the name of the people) prosecuted Careless driving but I think the best bet would be to look at what TDs are doing, who we're voting for and what sort of legislation they're producing.

As for judges making the wrong remarks, usually in charges to juries, we have a robust appeal process but what we tend to do is have very bright people, with a huge knowledge and understanding of the law with decades of experience sitting on the bench in the higher courts. We then ask them not to make many mistakes, but alas even Judges are human.

However one of the first thing even those of us with third rate degrees learn in criminal law is civilised nations have predicated there criminal law on Blackstone's Ratio:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Fleawuss · 11-03-2017 12:39PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

However one of the first thing even those of us with third rate degrees learn in criminal law is civilised nations have predicated there criminal law on Blackstone's Ratio:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Fleawuss Ratio:
For every ten guilty persons that walk free from an Irish court at least 40% will reoffend and at least four innocent people will suffer who need not have suffered.

CSO figures show convicted and probation refoffending rates at 40% or above so I'm being conservative in saying those who get away with things will re offend at at least a similar rate.

Blackstone's ratio is the high sounding bilge that legal types use to justify their failed system and keep the gravy train rolling.

Samuel T. Cogley · 11-03-2017 03:16PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

Blackstone's ratio is the high sounding bilge that legal types use to justify their failed system and keep the gravy train rolling.

If you were on the gallows for a crime you didn't commit you might think otherwise.

mynamejeff · 11-03-2017 03:57PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If you were on the gallows for a crime you didn't commit you might think otherwise.

wouldn't there be significantly less criminals and crime though and safer more peaceful world ?

unfair to some but better for every one in the end
rather than unfair to everyone and better for some (criminals)

Pat Mustard · 11-03-2017 04:00PM

DanMurphy wrote: »

Quick Kate,
a cuppa strong sweet tea for onetimecypher...

What is this "Kate" business about?

"I'm having breakfast, Kate" etc.

I googled it but all that comes up is Kate Middleton or whatever she is called now.

please helpThank YOU · 11-03-2017 04:18PM

Is there Justice the answer to that is Justice is the next life courts are man made laws never trust courts criminal /family courts you will never get Justice there.

Fleawuss · 11-03-2017 04:49PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If you were on the gallows for a crime you didn't commit you might think otherwise.

There is no death penalty in Ireland.

Is there any justice?

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