Is there any justice?

ask the Guildford four about Justice Miscarriages of Justice so I ever time your in court in Ireland just think what Justice will do to You.

mynamejeff wrote: »

that wasnt an irish court also it was politically motivated conviction

not at all close to the discussion here

Miscarriages of Justice Michael Feichin Hannon Galway Wrongly convicited of sexually assaulting a ten year old girl that man was declared miscarriage of Justice by the irish courts we also have nun Nora Wall jailed for life in 1999 for a crime she did not do wrongfully convicted of rape jailed for life she was exonerated and that is just 2 so I would not have any fate so ever on the irish/ireland Justice court its very unfair.there is no Justice

Noddyholder wrote: »

Also the Nicky Kelly case,

Osgur Breatnach, Nicky Kelly, Brian Mcnally, Michael Plunkett, John Fitzpatrick were arrested and beaten by the Garda Síochána to extract confessions under duress from four (Plunkett did not sign). The four were found guilty with no other evidence apart from the confessions. Breatnach and McNally were acquitted on appeal on the grounds that their statements had been taken under duress. Kelly was given a presidential pardon and received £750,000 in compensation

then we have garda Maurice Mccabe what the Justice system did to him hell on earth poor man I feel so sorry from makes me get very upset what the Justice did to him and others this just the tip of ice iceberg .

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

There might be less crime. We can introduce draconian methods as long as we're willing to pay for them. Whether living in a police state is 'better for everyone' has to be decided by the individual. My understanding is there was very little crime in Nazi Germany and a great sense of community spirit.

well then you ll agree its about finding the correct balance,

something we do not have now

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

then we have garda Maurice Mccabe what the Justice system did to him hell on earth poor man I feel so sorry from makes me get very upset what the Justice did to him and others this just the tip of ice iceberg .

aw come one now !!!


what was maurice mccabe convicted of ? what jail was he in ?

old allegations dug up by the media is that what you mean ?

mynamejeff wrote: »

aw come one now !!!


what was maurice mccabe convicted of ? what jail was he in ?

old allegations dug up by the media is that what you mean ?

What was done to Garda Maurice Mccabe. who is a hero is Great Nicest Man this was a depraved act by the state and government state agency tusla /hse /garda was pure evil thing to this very good man Garda Maurice Mccabe he is in Jail aright in his HEAD that is his jail. he his good name was taking from him by the evils of Ireland. god help this poor man what was done to him and others by the same to government state agency is act of pure evil. convicted luck the man is not dead from the stress of this nightmare

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

There's no evidence I've seen to support this. Crime is generally on a downward or fairly static trend. So given the average family, if they were breeding a new generation of scumbags one would expect an increase in crime. Generally people try and stop their kids getting involved in crime, not all but a majority.

theres plenty to say that recorded crime is falling along with the numbers of gardai and with figure juggling in ags. Also my meaning was that criminals rarely pay for their family's with honest tax paying jobs.

What do you think is going to happen if people are taken off basic social protection payments?

Might be they will stop committing crimes , the petty repetitive stuff at least

That's simply and patently false. 90% of detected crimes are plead to.

again you miss my point , a plea might be entered in the district or circuit after as much money as can be bleed is taken .
IE first day , gary doyle order goes back two weeks
second day, claims order just arrived , goes back two weeks,
third day, solicitor in another court back two weeks
forth day. garda in another court two weeks
fifth day, offender is a no show so bench warrant
sixth day. solicitor says he gave client wrong date back two weeks or plea or date ,
seventh day. plea. and appeal severity to circuit court which could take three years to be heard on severity only

The criminal legal aid bill is about €50m annually. It's absolute peanuts and is vital in maintaining parity of arms between the state and the accused. More is spent on Sports and Recreation services or keeping the Irish language alive.

granted 50 million last year down ten from the year before , same article says john Gilligan cost 3 million alone over the course of his crimes , is that fair ?
So take money from the irish language service , is more important to be able to walk down he street safely that speak irish , Again as i said there is so much waste in the government

Solicitors won't attend Garda Barracks and sit in on interviews either as they can do now, this would have to be paid for by legal aid in many cases. If they're bilking the system why have they avoided this potentially lucrative revenue stream?

Not true
the solicitors i know attend stations regularly . the big offices generally send the less experienced solicitors. Anything more serious than shoplifting or a drug search will get a visit to the station and in general sit in on interviews if nothing else as a learning experience for the solicitor

Again this is patently wrong. Prisons should cost three or four times what they cost now. Rehabilitation reduces crime. You only need to look at the Nordic vs the US model. Ireland tries to steer a middle ground, if you want to change that look at who you're voting for.

ya irish people are not like nordic people or Americans , spend some time in these countries and notice the attitude of the majority is very very different.

The swing has come about in the Supreme Court. There is a retrenchment form the position that a breach of constitutional rights should exclude evidence. One can debate this either way but the courts can do very little to reduce crime. Sentencing is being informed (IMHO) by lack of prison places.

Lack of prison places is major alright but weak judges out of touch with reality are a major cause too.
poor policing
public attitude
liberal government
and any number of other things you want to name too ,

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Perhaps I did but it's rendered moot by:



It's such a tiny amount of money it would do almost nothing to aid people's safety. You need billions of investment in the prison system. You and I have found €100m.

well if two people on boards can manage that you would think that all the resources of the state could come up with much more wouldnt you ?
I hear apple have a few euro going a begging

Fair enough, I certainly hadn't seen it as it was fairly new when I was last in the practical side of things. Not bad that we've managed to have this and still Legal aid is costing the state less than Irish.

I think the access during interviews is something that the law society looked for and got without consultation with AGS and that they now regret as criminals insist that solicitors be present and now they are stuck with it, I find that 50 million figure surprising tbh. does it include cases ongoing or just completed ones ?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry that's tosh. The US and the Irish are very similar, in some states the Irish ARE the Americans. Norway isn't that different either. Their approach to prisons is more effective though. You'd have to take somewhere like Japan for a truly different approach. They have short sentences in very harsh (but humane) conditions and a culture of social shame that helps prevent recidivism. The US, Western Europe and Ireland are all very similar in social attitudes to the CJS.[/QUOTE]

Really ? the american attitude towards law enforcement justice and courts is the same as Ireland ? now thats tosh and its been fairly well explored on this site alone.
the Norway model can be debunked with three simple words
Anders Behring Breivik

the Japanese prison system and culture is completely different to Ireland and entirely inapplicable

I can't speak to DC and CC court judges I know none of them personally. I knew three, now two Supreme Court justices who very generously used to come along to even my alma mater, give lectures, take questions and they all seemed very in touch indeed. I know of a solicitor recently appointed to the HC who was very 'with it' in terms of the type of work he'd done, a very intelligent man also. .

Do you think that those generous judges gave talks for free or were highly paid ?
Yes i also know some intelligent and well clued in judges. you can almost smell the despair and pointlessness from them when they are on the bench.
they know that any strong sentence that they impose will be reduced to ineffectiveness on appeal

I really don't know what people want when they want judges who are 'in touch'. Granted it's a bit of a common joke that DC court Judges are all in their own little fiefdoms but what do people want, they deal with minor crimes. Any Judge I've ever met has been intelligent, aware of what the public wanted generally and tried to do the best they could with what they had.

Granted they shouldn't be letting prison places inform heir decisions but do we really want judges engaging in judicial activism. It's for the public to vote in TDs who will raise taxes and sort out our prison system.

I have yet to see a election fought on the justice system , renua is the only party to make it a major issue and look how well they did