"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

bleg

This is almost as bad as the water tax.

kylith

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I know A Women was in the good shepherd convent in Limerick for more than 10 Years as a Child SLAVE and what she told me shocked me than she had WASH AND IRON 100S OF NAVY TROUSERS AND NAVY JACKETS AND BLUE SHIRTS SHE MADE OUT TO ME THE LOOK LIKE GARDA UNIFORMS

Well, AFAIK, the nuns' laundries had contracts with hotels, so having a contract with the Gardai wouldn't surprise me at all.

KKkitty

My partner's mam told me that when she was younger in mass the priest would call out the name of all households who did and didn't contribute to the parish for that week. The looks people would get if they didn't contribute was awful. Yet the church could treat kids the way they wanted and take babies from their mothers without any shame. They're just about money and the hold they could have had over people. Nothing short of bullies is all they are.

Noddyholder

Shocking, disgusting and who ever is reponsible should be brought to account, be it an organisation or individuals.

neonsofa

kbannon wrote: »

I think it was as much that people were much more faithful and unquestioning towards the church, partly because everyone else was and you would be frowned upon by your peers.
That and the fact that in general, people weren't educated to any great level and as priests went off and studied they were put up on a pedestal.
Some priests made full use of this with their fire and brimstone nonsense also.
However, the main point was that the people willingly gave them the power.

I don't know if it was willingly.
I have not baptised my child, which was my own personal choice. But because of the school situation here I had to check that this wouldn't impact on her being accepted to school. If it had been a few years earlier, I may have had to consider baptising even though I didn't really want to. Go back a few years more and the choice to not baptise would probably seem alien to me- it was just the done thing then. It is only thanks to stronger people than myself, that I have the freedom to make these choices. It is only because people have become more vocal and more informed- but that didn't happen overnight and I can't slap myself on the back today and think "I took a stand against the church by not getting her baptised" cause it was the people before me who made that possible, the people who were looked down on and shunned for speaking out. Who went against the church who held such power. It's very easy for us now to think how naive people were and think they just went along with things but it was a different time and thankfully times have changed but that change didn't just happen out of nowhere either.

infogiver

Red Kev wrote: »

Have we an extradition treaty with the Vatican?

It was thought that up to 800 were buried in Tuam in various sites. My granddad is from 8 miles from Tuam and that's what they always said. Sounded mad until the story came out a few years back. Hard to know as so many records of what happened were deliberately destroyed over the past few years.

That Cardinal O'Connell who died a couple of weeks ago did his level best to prevent people seeing documents, makes sense that they destroyed a good few as well.

Sad thing is we'll never know the names of the kids in those graves for a fitting memorial and nobody will ever sit for it.

Do you think people working in the home in 1961 are hiding in the Vatican?

infogiver

kylith wrote: »

It was a Magdalen laundry. Pregnant unmarried women were forced to go there. Once born the children were removed from their mothers (who often did not want to give them up) and either sold abroad or raised in workhouse conditions.

Some of the children would also have been orphans or given up by parents who could not look after them for various reasons (poverty, death of the other parent).

This was done for reasons on 'religion' and 'morality'.

But who forced them to go to the Convent Kylith? You can't escape from the fact that the parents of the pregnant girl brought them to the Convent.
My great grandmother gave birth to my grandfather in 1900 and she just kept him at home and reared him because her widowed father loved her more than his concern for his own social standing.
Other girls just disappeared from the village only to return a year or so later, having lost weight and on the understanding that they'd gone to Dublin to visit cousins.
Some just never came back.
If you want us to be able to process this information properly then you have to accept that the whole of Irish society was in total agreement that the proper way to deal with illegitimacy was via the Convent and possibly the laundry.
If you try to pretend that nobody realised what was going on behind the gates then your defeating everything

infogiver

jaja321 wrote: »

Sure, but where did that shame come from?

But this "shame" occurred and continues to occur in many parts of the world where there was no religion at all so how do you explain that?
There are still African tribes where unattached pregnant girls are just banished out into the wilderness.

KKkitty

There was always the old chestnut that the pregnant woman/girl went to England. The worst thing about my mother was that she was illegitimate herself. My great grandmother and her daughter went away at the same time and my great grandmother raised my mother as her own daughter. Obviously when my mother found out she was pregnant her grandmother was too old to help but it's frustrating that not one family member of my mother stopped her from being sent away.

snowflaker

Terry Prone still spinning over their graves no doubt.

"You'll find no mass graves" she said

Hope she got paid well by the nuns

jimmy blevins

...and they have the audacity to pontificate on abortion.

KKkitty

jimmy blevins wrote: »

...and they have the audacity to pontificate on abortion.

Years ago they couldn't have abortions sure. The CC would be down money if that was allowed. Who was going to do the laundry and be vilified for nothing.

kylith

infogiver wrote: »

But who forced them to go to the Convent Kylith? You can't escape from the fact that the parents of the pregnant girl brought them to the Convent.
My great grandmother gave birth to my grandfather in 1900 and she just kept him at home and reared him because her widowed father loved her more than his concern for his own social standing.
Other girls just disappeared from the village only to return a year or so later, having lost weight and on the understanding that they'd gone to Dublin to visit cousins.
Some just never came back.
If you want us to be able to process this information properly then you have to accept that the whole of Irish society was in total agreement that the proper way to deal with illegitimacy was via the Convent and possibly the laundry.
If you try to pretend that nobody realised what was going on behind the gates then your defeating everything

OK, lets say that society agreed with the RCC. Why was this? Was this because vast majority of the population was educated by the RCC? Trained from infancy to do what the Church said, as it was the edict of God? Yes, people did this, but religion created the environment in which people felt that they had to do this. If the priests had stood at their altars and said that unmarried mothers were to be helped and cherished do you think the laundries would still have been a thing?

Good for your great-great grandfather for going against the social norms. Not everyone was strong enough to go against the church, to put up with being ostracised in their town, shunned by family members, and denounced from the pulpit as fornicators and degenerates.

Akrasia

The Catholic Church preyed on the young people of Ireland for generations. Young girls were sent off to the nunneries as teenagers. Young boys were sent off to become priests as teenagers. Young mothers were taken from their families to become slaves and their babies taken and either sold or forced to work in their laundries or work houses.

Nuns, priests, 'brothers' taken as children and trained as foot soldiers who became institutionalised and brainwashed to think that their faith is everything to them....

The Cult of the Roman Catholic Church needs to be consigned to history. Luckily they're in rapid decline because hardly anyone freely chooses to subjugate themselves these days.

Spanish Eyes

Prone to be wild..

They will be teaching themselves the same things that they teach the clients now.

omg.

Well hopefully off the airways for a while now. But hubris knows no bounds either!

lazybones32

kylith wrote: »

Or they wrapped the body and just open the lid of the pit and dropped them in.

And the bodies stacked themselves? Those nuns must have some wrist control...

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why are you trying to defend these people?

No person with a soul could treat young girls and innocent babies like that

Pointing out the inconsistencies in what you write isn't defending someone. If there are conflicting stories, then some version isn't true. I'm very slow to accept the media's version of events after they have been shown to have already lied regarding this case and people, supposedly intelligent people, somehow confuse this as being my denial that there are 796 death certificates for children of Tuam house.

The Legend Of Kira

I always remember a particular story ( Mother ) told me yrs ago about how powerful the Church were back a few decades ago .

Mother who would be in her early 60s now, at the time the film about the magdelene laundries was released back around 2001/ or 2002, I rented out the film from the local video rental store and watched it at home with her, after watching that particular film, she told me a story from her youth around the time when she was growing up in the 1960s- there was one teenage girl who lived on the same street as her, who got pregnant in her mid teens, the next thing that happened was the local priest went to visit that girls house and afterwards the girls parents sent her away after the priests visiting, I asked Mother if she ever saw the girl again in later years to which she answered no she never saw her around town again, that girls parents I can never for the life of me understand people who would so blindly follow religious advice from a priest without thought or question to send their own daughter away just because she got pregnant .

please helpThank YOU

The Rich and the Well Educated of Ireland live off the Weak poor Vulnerable people the have from the start of time and will to the end.

kylith

lazybones32 wrote: »

And the bodies stacked themselves? Those nuns must have some wrist control...

This is the quote you're talking about:

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The woman on the radio said today that she saw piles of two litre bottle size bundles wrapped in cloth stacked up against the walls

"The walls" but which walls, and when? The walls of the pit? The walls of the field? Before exhumation? After? During? How old were the wrappings? Without further information we can't say. As I said; my interpretation is that the witness saw the bodies wrapped, stacked, and catalogued for removal.

hmmm

If it was a cult or sect who did this we'd all be foaming at the mouth looking for them to be banned. Yet we're still sending kids to be educated by these monsters. I just don't understand.

The_Kew_Tour

KKkitty wrote: »

My partner's mam told me that when she was younger in mass the priest would call out the name of all households who did and didn't contribute to the parish for that week. The looks people would get if they didn't contribute was awful. Yet the church could treat kids the way they wahnted and take babies from their mothers without any shame. They're just about money and the hold they could have had over people. Nothing short of bullies is all they are.

If thats true what a humiliating experience. Bet some could barely have enough food on the table.

captbarnacles

I had a brother die of cot death in 1976 aged 18 months. Church refused to allow a proper funeral as hadn't lived long enough. This was a baptised child from a 'proper' family. So their treatment of those children doesn't take much to believe. Trash in their minds I suspect. Wicked people.

Lisha

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If thats true what a humiliating experience. Bet some could barely have enough food on the table.

My Mom would often tell us about fasting from 6pm Saturday night, then walking 10miles to mass at 10am Sunday morning. What killed her one day was the priest passed in his car in the pouring rain and splashed them. They felt so humiliated. She spoke of seeing him laughing with the richer neighbours after mass and then seeing him walk into the local hotel for a huge breakfast. She snd Her sisters had to walk the 10miles home again before they could eat.

Let their be no mistake the church are guilty of heinous crimes against the weaker congregation members but society colluded and let the church abuse the weaker. The strangle hold the church had was evil.

Lisha

captbarnacles wrote: »

I had a brother die of cot death in 1976 aged 18 months. Church refused to allow a proper funeral as hadn't lived long enough. This was a baptised child from a 'proper' family. So their treatment of those children doesn't take much to believe. Trash in their minds I suspect. Wicked people.

I'm sorry for your loss of your brother.

Often I've heard that the corpses of very young children/babies were buried hidden in the coffins of other dead in the locality.
Hard to stomach that this was actually done by women who wanted to poor child to have a proper burial and this was the only was open to them.

captbarnacles

Thanks Lisha. I only found that out recently. My parents told me they weren't allowed grieve properly and it had a terrible effect on them. I was incredulous at first - why would the church be so pointlessly cruel? but really micro scale compared to what they have done to others as Tuam shows.

Lisha

captbarnacles wrote: »

Thanks Lisha. I only found that out recently. My parents told me they weren't allowed grieve properly and it had a terrible effect on them. I was incredulous at first - why would the church be so pointlessly cruel? but really micro scale compared to what they have done to others as Tuam shows.

My Dad's oldest brother was still born. They were told the baby was taken to angels plot to be buried. My Grandparents died not knowing if this were true or where the plot is. I don't think my grandmother ever forgot it or stopped wondering about it. A desperate experience for anyone. She was told to move on and have more children. Very cruel.

neonsofa

Such sad stories in this thread.

snowflaker

My mother's mother had a hole in her heart. My aunt told me of the PP visiting my grandmother asking when she was having more babies. She has numerous miscarriages and stillbirths and one die in infancy. My grandmother died leaving a young family behind. The church hierarchy are Scum.

The_Kew_Tour

Lisha wrote: »

My Mom would often tell us about fasting from 6pm Saturday night, then walking 10miles to mass at 10am Sunday morning. What killed her one day was the priest passed in his car in the pouring rain and splashed them. They felt so humiliated. She spoke of seeing him laughing with the richer neighbours after mass and then seeing him walk into the local hotel for a huge breakfast. She snd Her sisters had to walk the 10miles home again before they could eat.

Let their be no mistake the church are guilty of heinous crimes against the weaker congregation members but society colluded and let the church abuse the weaker. The strangle hold the church had was evil.

Im not surprised to hear that. I had the last of the Christian Brothers in late 90s and they only liked kids with rich parents. Always had go or even hit other kids.

I mentioned here few weeks ago a Priest in Mallow left a Bank Balance of 400k when he died. Same Priest hung around with all big shots and he was a snobby **** and ignorant.

In saying that the Priest in my parish back home is wonderful man. A man who given so much back. Its Priests like him I feel sorry for tonight.

SEPT 23 1989

You will sleep but you will never dream