Anyone else becoming terrified of Liberals.

Professor Moriarty

FA Hayek wrote: »

Trump is not far right, as I mentioned in another post, do you really think a born and bred New Yorker living on the upper East side, is a secret member of the Klan or a Neo-Nazi?

People get upset when big nets are cast calling all left wingers/liberals SJW's or snowflakes, yet here far-right is a catch all term.

Trump has as much in common with the average New Yorker as the Queen of England has with the average Cockney.

PopePalpatine

Walter H Price wrote: »

The polarization and widening division of society as a whole at the moment is very unsettling. I'm not one for conspiracy theories or any of that stuff , but i do believe the media is having a massive impact on this widening division through very biased and emotive reporting.

You are really left looking and thinking where has the neutrality in the media gone and what is the end game of having people so viciously divided on issues of such little relevance to them e.g Trump or any of the American election campaign

Yep, let's just ignore Trump tarring any negative polls about him as "FAKE NEWS".

eire4

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Yep, let's just ignore Trump tarring any negative polls about him as "FAKE NEWS".

Yes and shame on anybody in the media calling him out on his many outright lies. Ridiculous.
I am no fan of the media in the US given how much they benefit from citizens united financially they are very much part of the problem and part of the reason why the US political system is broken and dysfunctional in terms of serving the best interests of the vast majority of Americans. But given how the current Trump administration reminds me of Newspeak from 1984 every time one them is talking it would be very difficult for the media not to call them out on at least some of their obvious lies.

scruffy66

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump has as much in common with the average New Yorker as the Queen of England has with the average Cockney.

Good to see you put the Queen and Trump on the same level, now we're getting some where.
Did you see this half time Super Bowl interview Trump did with fox's Bill o
Reilly . Now Bill has to be one of the most dislikable Human beings alive, even more than Trump but is Trump the first American President to move away from
The idea of American Elitism and to say straight up that the U.S. Have killed
just as much as other countries and that they are just as responsible for
world instability .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XbIdPUX7zg8

eire4

scruffy66 wrote: »

Good to see you put the Queen and Trump on the same level, now we're getting some where.
Did you see this half time Super Bowl interview Trump did with fox's Bill o
Reilly . Now Bill has to be one of the most dislikable Human beings alive, even more than Trump but is Trump the first American President to move away from
The idea of American Elitism and to say straight up that the U.S. Have killed
just as much as other countries and that they are just as responsible for
world instability .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XbIdPUX7zg8

True enough. Although now Conway his Newspeak like mouth piece has been walking those comments back saying that he only meant in Iraqi.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The far right is Trump. He is stirring up religious discrimination.

Trump is a populist. He has many liberal positions. Many many liberal positions.

Trump has the best liberal positions, they're incredibly liberal, incredible.

FA Hayek

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'll call him far-right, fascist etc.

He is a far right fascist, but not Nazi. Err, ok. Kinda proving my point really but go ahead.

Professor Moriarty

FA Hayek wrote: »

He is a far right fascist, but not Nazi. Err, ok. Kinda proving my point really but go ahead.

I doubt if even the Donald knows what political principles he believes in simply because he doesn't appear to have any. Which is understandable considering he only became a politician three weeks ago.

MightyMandarin

FA Hayek wrote: »

He is a far right fascist, but not Nazi. Err, ok. Kinda proving my point really but go ahead.

How does that prove your point at all? Fascism and Nazism are heavily linked but not the same thing.

MightyMandarin

All of this hysteria about liberals, yet Trump supporters are driving fleets of military vehicles around Kentucky.

Listen to popular followers of him aswell. Alex Jones even said he'd 'die for Trump'.

I'd be as worried about these American jihadists as I would the Islamic ones.

demfad

Trump is a vessel for his handlers and backers. When you talk of Trump's social policies you really must examine the social policies of white supremacist Stephen Bannon; The Mercers and religious Statists the CNP; the dominionist evangelical movement etc.
For foreign policy you need to look at Stephen Bannons small State multipolar world order: No EU, less federalism in USA, or no USA. Bannons views are based on his idol Alex Dugin. As Trump is being blackmailed by Vladimir Putin the foreign policy will be and has been as pro-Russian as possible in Trumps position. Drop sanctions and attack the EU.
For disinformation and methodology look at what Vladymir Surkov did in Russia and how other autocracies were formed.
When sanctions are dropped and the EU is gone, Putin will be happy to pull the plug on Trump or to let Bannon bring the establishment down and destroy government.

BTW: Happy to back up any of this with reliable reference.

KingBrian2

Good to know the liberals in America have already made up their mind about Trump even as it is early days exactly like how Conservatives accused Obama the do nothing President of being a Marxist, Kenyan Socialist long before election even came to conclusion. US Democrats are still looking for votes i see.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Good to know the liberals in America have already made up their mind about Trump even as it is early days exactly like how Conservatives accused Obama the do nothing President of being a Marxist, Kenyan Socialist long before election even came to conclusion. US Democrats are still looking for votes i see.

Hardly early days when he's been in 2 weeks and already he's signed more than a dozen EO's, fired an Attorney General, banned hundreds of thousand's from entering the US based entirely on their religion, questioned the legitimacy of a Judge, ripped up several trade deals, put some terrible people in powerful positions, convinced the speaker of Parliament to declare that he's not welcome in Westminster and even declared that any polls which are unfavourable to him are fake... and that's just him.

His administration has also been caught lying through their teeth on numerous occasions, most notably with infamous 'inauguration attendance figures', managed to conjure up an 1984-esque term: 'Alternative facts' and made up an entire 'Massacre' which never happened.

Don't know what you mean by 'early days'; this type of stuff wouldn't happen in an 8yr presidency of most presidents yet it took Donald 2 weeks.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Hardly early days when he's been in 2 weeks and already he's signed more than a dozen EO's, fired an Attorney General, banned hundreds of thousand's from entering the US based entirely on their religion, questioned the legitimacy of a Judge, ripped up several trade deals, put some terrible people in powerful positions, convinced the speaker of Parliament to declare that he's not welcome in Westminster and even declared that any polls which are unfavourable to him are fake... and that's just him.

His administration has also been caught lying through their teeth on numerous occasions, most notably with infamous 'inauguration attendance figures', managed to conjure up an 1984-esque term: 'Alternative facts' and made up an entire 'Massacre' which never happened.

Don't know what you mean by 'early days'; this type of stuff wouldn't happen in an 8yr presidency of most presidents yet it took Donald 2 weeks.

Early days usually being first few weeks. Certainly knows how to illicit a reaction out of the usual crowd. We saw the protesters gathering momentum very quickly. Don't imagine the journalists decided to interview those people like they portrayed the Tea Party movement not that the Tea Party movement was any good. Those liberal protesters are too busy engaging in violent demonstrations.

Suryavarman

FA Hayek wrote: »

Trump is not far right, as I mentioned in another post, do you really think a born and bred New Yorker living on the upper East side, is a secret member of the Klan or a Neo-Nazi?

People get upset when big nets are cast calling all left wingers/liberals SJW's or snowflakes, yet here far-right is a catch all term.

Trump is racist, authoritarian, nationalistic and corporatist. He's a proto-fascist just like his political idol Putin.

FA Hayek

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'd be as worried about these American jihadists as I would the Islamic ones.

Well then you are a fool to think that, as the former have killed tens of thousands all over the world the past couple of years, have formed a terrorist state named ISIS, a state that takes sex slaves and throws homosexuals off buildings, yet people driving a few humvee's around Kentucky is the equivalent of this in the US.

FA Hayek

MightyMandarin wrote: »

How does that prove your point at all? Fascism and Nazism are heavily linked but not the same thing.

It proves that you are making up labels to suit your argument. Logic goes out the window to be replaced with hysteria.

listermint

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Early days usually being first few weeks. Certainly knows how to illicit a reaction out of the usual crowd. We saw the protesters gathering momentum very quickly. Don't imagine the journalists decided to interview those people like they portrayed the Tea Party movement not that the Tea Party movement was any good. Those liberal protesters are too busy engaging in violent demonstrations.

Brian you were really burned by that posters response.tbh I would have gone to ground after that. Fair play for coming back. But that was just a dire response to the points he made.

You skirted them all .

Where is the rebuttal.

FA Hayek

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Hardly early days when he's been in 2 weeks and already he's signed more than a dozen EO's, fired an Attorney General, banned hundreds of thousand's from entering the US based entirely on their religion, questioned the legitimacy of a Judge, ripped up several trade deals, put some terrible people in powerful positions, convinced the speaker of Parliament to declare that he's not welcome in Westminster and even declared that any polls which are unfavourable to him are fake... and that's just him.
.

That is factually wrong, All people from these 7 states,whether Muslim, Christian or whatever are banned for the time being, 90 days I think with the exception of Syria. The ban was based on nationality. At least get your facts straight.

MightyMandarin

FA Hayek wrote: »

That is factually wrong, All people from these 7 states,whether Muslim, Christian or whatever are banned for the time being, 90 days I think with the exception of Syria. The ban was based on nationality. At least get your facts straight.

I thought that initially, except that

Sec.5 (b) of the order clearly states

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality.

and 5 (e) states

(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship -- and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.

So no, it does not affect Christians as much as Muslims from these countries as there exceptions made for them. It most certainly is a 'muslim' ban.

MightyMandarin

FA Hayek wrote: »

It proves that you are making up labels to suit your argument. Logic goes out the window to be replaced with hysteria.

No. I called him a fascist as he fits the characteristics of a fascist. I didn't call him a Nazi as he does not fit characteristics of a nazi.

No hysteria here.

MightyMandarin

FA Hayek wrote: »

Well then you are a fool to think that, as the former have killed tens of thousands all over the world the past couple of years, have formed a terrorist state named ISIS, a state that takes sex slaves and throws homosexuals off buildings, yet people driving a few humvee's around Kentucky is the equivalent of this in the US.

I am no fool as I don't wake up fearing either of them. I also like to remind myself that terrorists don't always quote Islamic Hadiths and in fact they often are followers of the people you support, funnily enough.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Good to know the liberals in America have already made up their mind about Trump even as it is early days exactly like how Conservatives accused Obama the do nothing President of being a Marxist, Kenyan Socialist long before election even came to conclusion. US Democrats are still looking for votes i see.

Liberals in America made their mind up about Trump well before he was elected. Now every day he does something to reinforce their decision.

What do you expect them to do? Stand back and say nothing? It's a bizarre idea that he should be given time.

Brian?

FA Hayek wrote: »

That is factually wrong, All people from these 7 states,whether Muslim, Christian or whatever are banned for the time being, 90 days I think with the exception of Syria. The ban was based on nationality. At least get your facts straight.

There's a large slice of irony here. The ban is weighted against Muslims in favour of Christians. Thems the facts horse, straight as you like.

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

Good to know the liberals in America have already made up their mind about Trump even as it is early days exactly like how Conservatives accused Obama the do nothing President of being a Marxist, Kenyan Socialist long before election even came to conclusion. US Democrats are still looking for votes i see.

Am I correct in saying you were one of he trump supporters who was sure he would behave honourably once he took office. Would you say that has happend?

ancapailldorcha

Stop the name calling please. Any more will warrant a sanction.

Carlos Orange

Brian? wrote: »

There's a large slice of irony here. The ban is weighted against Muslims in favour of Christians. Thems the facts horse, straight as you like.

It is in favour of persecuted minority religious groups. Some of them are christian , some of them are not.

Brian?

psinno wrote: »

It is in favour of persecuted minority religious groups. Some of them are christian , some of them are not.

The ban is weighted against Muslims. Let's agree on that so.

Carlos Orange

Brian? wrote: »

The ban is weighted against Muslims. Let's agree on that so.

I haven't paid much attention to what is happening in Sudan these days but most of the countries on the list seem like failed states with weak or non existent central governments. Except Iran , I think Americans are still upset about the hostage crisis there in the 70s. So more weighted against people from failing states.

What failing/failed states do you think are missing?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.