Is it time to stop eating meat?

freshpopcorn

Graces7 wrote: »

I had to shear my own lambs. And I would not farm, period. I have no ambitions in that direction. Cuteness? No thank you. My two were orphans.

But i certainly would not eat them !

I just know people who had a pet lamb or two and they were lovely and the best pets ever and they'd never eat lamb again. It's just when they saw the real reality of them on a farm every day. They soon changed their tune!

Lady Haywire

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I just know people who had a pet lamb or two and they were lovely and the best pets ever and they'd never eat lamb again. It's just when they saw the real reality of them on a farm every day. They soon changed their tune!

Ah but pet lambs are different to the others as you have a vested interest in keeping them alive. Kinda like eating a pet after you've brought them along so far into life....or that's how I feel anyway! Hence i never eat the stock bred here but I'd have no qualms about buying one in the mart for the butcher to do up for me.
Had a premature calf born about 6 weeks early on the 20th Jan so for the last fortnight I was busy keeping him alive, feeding him every few hours for the first while. So I'd never, ever dream of eating him but thankfully he's a pb fella so should go on to breed his own.

Sirsok

I dont eat meat, I dont mind those that do it meat, infact I recieve alot of stick from meat eaters as oppose me giving them abuse.

Its a personal choice brought on by watching news about the Dog Meat Festival thats held every year. I thought that was absolutely horrific, until a muslim man stated that is the way he views pork consumption, its just that a dog is domesticated. I started feeling terribly bad everytime i ate meat after that, just my concious cpuldnt handle eating a carcass even though I loved the taste of meat.

I occasionally get cravings , especially when in a resturant and everyone gets rhese amazing steak and burger dishes and im getting fevking pasta!

freshpopcorn

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah but pet lambs are different to the others as you have a vested interest in keeping them alive. Kinda like eating a pet after you've brought them along so far into life....or that's how I feel anyway! Hence i never eat the stock bred here but I'd have no qualms about buying one in the mart for the butcher to do up for me.
Had a premature calf born about 6 weeks early on the 20th Jan so for the last fortnight I was busy keeping him alive, feeding him every few hours for the first while. So I'd never, ever dream of eating him but thankfully he's a pb fella so should go on to breed his own.

Ever year we ended up with a lamb or a few who ends up being a bit of a pet due to issues with it's mother but if we kept every pet lamb we'd have a field of them by now. We've one pet lamb from a few years ago but the others had to go the mart after a time.

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I just know people who had a pet lamb or two and they were lovely and the best pets ever and they'd never eat lamb again.

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah but pet lambs are different to the others as you have a vested interest in keeping them alive. Kinda like eating a pet after you've brought them along so far into life....or that's how I feel anyway!

We on occasion keep and kill our own hogget. Which means we get a better more flavoursome meat and hopefully the animal got to live a bit longer - and happier - than it would have as farmed lamb.

Something between pet and farm animal - it has not bothered us or the children to have at them on the dinner plate.

Tayschren

I've cut down on the meat lately, keeping away from red meat but still having some chicken or fish 3 times a week.

Dont feel any better for it health wise

ScumLord

Sirsok wrote: »

Its a personal choice brought on by watching news about the Dog Meat Festival thats held every year. I thought that was absolutely horrific, until a muslim man stated that is the way he views pork consumption, its just that a dog is domesticated. I started feeling terribly bad everytime i ate meat after that,

It's a bit of a disingenuous way for the Muslim to put it. It's not like they keep pigs as pets, many wouldn't even want to touch a pig. Unless he has no regard for dogs too then it's not as if he's saying pigs are lovely. According to some things I've read they would be required to kill the pig just because it's an unclean pig so it's pointless having them as pets.

eviltwin

Sirsok wrote: »

I dont eat meat, I dont mind those that do it meat, infact I recieve alot of stick from meat eaters as oppose me giving them abuse

Ditto. I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to eat but I will let people know if I don't eat meat or dairy. Somehow informing people of that becomes judging them or being holier than thou about it.

Not everyone is veggie or vegan for environmental or animal cruelty reasons either. Personally I do it for vanity reasons, its helped me lose weight and cleared up my problem skin. It doesn't always hold true that a vegan is a tree hugger

Angel Crow

I don't get the argument that we need meat or are designed to eat it. I know people that have been vegetarians for 10 and 20 years and are perfectly functioning intelligent adults. It's such a lazy attitude that because our ancient ancestors relied on meat for survival that we simply must eat it. It's not relevant to a society with a food surplus.

Graces7

eviltwin wrote: »

Ditto. I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to eat but I will let people know if I don't eat meat or dairy. Somehow informing people of that becomes judging them or being holier than thou about it.

Not everyone is veggie or vegan for environmental or animal cruelty reasons either. Personally I do it for vanity reasons, its helped me lose weight and cleared up my problem skin. It doesn't always hold true that a vegan is a tree hugger

For this sweet reason, thank you

With me it was as much cost as anything else. Meat is very costly for a pensioner and before that I was on disability.

Then when I had my own milk and eggs and made cheese?

I need dairy so that is fine for me and I am happier eating lighter. ( excuse me though while I go out and hug the trees goodnight!)

osarusan

Angel Crow wrote: »

It's not relevant to a society with a food surplus.

More to the point, I think it's not relevant to a society that knows how to replace/supplement the benefits of eating meat.

Angel Crow

osarusan wrote: »

More to the point, I think it's not relevant to a society that knows how to replace/supplement the benefits of eating meat.

I'm pretty sure our ancestors didn't have entire factories dedicated to making chicken tenders for Mcdonald's also.

ScumLord

Angel Crow wrote: »

I don't get the argument that we need meat or are designed to eat it. I know people that have been vegetarians for 10 and 20 years and are perfectly functioning intelligent adults. It's such a lazy attitude that because our ancient ancestors relied on meat for survival that we simply must eat it. It's not relevant to a society with a food surplus.

No animal is "designed" to do anything. The human is a bit of an oddball animal. We went from tree swinging apes that mostly eat a vegetarian diet (it's possible we eat meat the same way chimps eat meat) then climate change forced us to to evolve for life on the plains. The bottom line is that it would have been hard for us to find enough calories on a grass plain, all the food sources we would have relied on disappeared. So it's likely we started scavenging other animals kills. This caused us to change, we had an abundance of calories that all went towards our brain. Our gut got smaller because it wasn't doing as much work, meat changed us just like farming changed us (likely the reason white people came along and we developed tolerances for grains and things like milk). We adapted to be able to eat meat.

We are an animal that evolved for a high calorie meat supplemented diet. All we really did was add apps to our gut to enable us to eat a wider range of food. We don't have to eat meat, it's just in many places people had no choice. For a human moving around the planet meat is a reliable food source. When we move into a new environment we don't know what's food, or what's poison, animals are nearly always edible and one animal can easily replace another.

I don't think we can just stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory, I also don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat.

Elemonator

Ohhhhhhhhh controversial!

Its vital that the population gradually decreases and also that we all eat less meat and waste less energy and resources. We surely can't use technology forever to escape from resource constraints.

Have kids? Do it to feel responsible. Don't or can't have kids? Screw it.

Shenshen

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we can just stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory, I also don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat.

Why not?
I haven't eaten meat in about a decade now, my husband hasn't touched any in nearly 30 years. And yet, both of us are healthy, functioning adults, as are millions of others across the globe.

I'm not saying people should stop eating meat, as I keep saying it's a personal choice. But it is a choice nevertheless.
It's perfectly ok to say you don't want to stop eating meat, but I'm getting a little fed up with the "nature makes me do it" argument.

Galway_Old_Man

I had a savage burger at lunch. Bioche bun ( :pac: ), pork belly, chorizo, bacon, lettuce and a coleslaw/chipotle sauce mix. Savage. had some chicken nuggets with it. I'm done with meat for today.

ScumLord

Shenshen wrote: »

Why not?
I haven't eaten meat in about a decade now, my husband hasn't touched any in nearly 30 years. And yet, both of us are healthy, functioning adults, as are millions of others across the globe.

I don't think we as a species can stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory. We thought eliminating wolves would be a good idea but it caused the collapse of ecosystems. Humans are a force of nature at this stage, everything we do has far reaching ramifications that we're not smart enough to predict.

Shenshen

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we as a species can stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory. We thought eliminating wolves would be a good idea but it caused the collapse of ecosystems. Humans are a force of nature at this stage, everything we do has far reaching ramifications that we're not smart enough to predict.

The bolded bit is certainly true.

Apologies if I misunderstood, I read "we" as each one of us individually, not "we" the species.

I'm not a fan of those hypothetical scenarios where everyone just stops eating meat from one minute to the next - of course that would have massive consequences, and of course we have no way of knowing if we'd be able to provide enough nuts, pulses and other protein to feed 6 billion. My guess is we don't. But then it's pointless speculation, as it's about as likely as Donald Trump coming out of the closet tomorrow.

There's nothing in our biology forcing us to eat meat, but we probably won't be any less healthy for eating it. Biology basically has no opinion either way.
Ecologically, a gradual reduction in meat consumption might well be a positive, considering the current increase in human population and the increase in wealth globally. Even to hold meat production steady, we'd have to reduce individual consumption.

Btw, wolves are making a bit of a comeback in central Europe - ever since the fall of the iron curtain.

ScumLord

Shenshen wrote: »

There's nothing in our biology forcing us to eat meat, but we probably won't be any less healthy for eating it. Biology basically has no opinion either way.

Meat is a good food, it's easy and you get a load of calories in a small package.. As an animal we're always going to have a preference for the easy option.

Ecologically, a gradual reduction in meat consumption might well be a positive, considering the current increase in human population and the increase in wealth globally. Even to hold meat production steady, we'd have to reduce individual consumption.

If synthetic meat takes off we'll likely switch to it taking the pressure off most domestic animals. I don't think we'd stop producing animal meat but it would become the quality alternative. Farms could be much smaller with better welfare.

Btw, wolves are making a bit of a comeback in central Europe - ever since the fall of the iron curtain.

Chernobyl has turned out to be great for all the other animals in the area. When the humans moved out everything else moved back in. Humans, worse than nuclear fall out.

Angel Crow

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we can just stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory, I also don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat.

Meat production will never be stopped so I wouldn't worry about that. Although there's no comparison with the manner in which we consumed meat in the distant past to how we have done it in the last 100 years.

The second part is a very vague statement. Nobody really disagrees with the philosophy of eating meat. Who would begrudge impoverished people hunting or relying on meat tor survive?

The issue is whether we need to produce meat at the grotesquely industrial scale that we do for tasty treats. The eco system won't collapse if McDonald's or KFC went out of business.

Austria!

jameorahiely wrote: »

No. Living off vegetables &/ soya needs more intensive farming and more land.

This is completely 100% wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_flow_(ecology)

And besides, loads of soya is just grown for animals to eat anyway.

ScumLord

Angel Crow wrote: »

The second part is a very vague statement. Nobody really disagrees with the philosophy of eating meat. Who would begrudge impoverished people hunting or relying on meat tor survive?

PETA probably would.

The issue is whether we need to produce meat at the grotesquely industrial scale that we do for tasty treats. The eco system won't collapse if McDonald's or KFC went out of business.

The problem is intensive farming to produce cheap meat is our fault as the consumer, we're at least as culpable as the producers. We keep showing a preference for cheaper and cheaper products to the producers fulfil that demand. Markets demand they o that or go out of business. We have to take some responsibility for how we spend our money, I think how we spend our money is as important if not more important than voting in a capitalist society.

MilesMorales1

I wouldn't give it up. It's selfish, but I love meat. Once they create synthetic meat with the same taste and texture though, I'll be all over it.

DEFTLEFTHAND

When I look at a lamb, I want to eat it. When a polar bear looks at me, he has the same feelings.

Angel Crow

ScumLord wrote: »

PETA probably would.

The problem is intensive farming to produce cheap meat is our fault as the consumer, we're at least as culpable as the producers. We keep showing a preference for cheaper and cheaper products to the producers fulfil that demand. Markets demand they o that or go out of business. We have to take some responsibility for how we spend our money, I think how we spend our money is as important if not more important than voting in a capitalist society.

Well that's exactly my point. That's why it's unjustifiable to consume meat the level that we that we do. I've no problem with anyone hunting for food, but I wonder how many people would actually have the stomach to kill an animal themselves. Much less traumatic to pay someone else to do your dirty work.

wes

Not until they get that lab grown meat perfected, and cheaper than the real thing.

ScumLord

Angel Crow wrote: »

Well that's exactly my point. That's why it's unjustifiable to consume meat the level that we that we do. I've no problem with anyone hunting for food, but I wonder how many people would actually have the stomach to kill an animal themselves. Much less traumatic to pay someone else to do your dirty work.

I think if we had to kill our own meat we likely would, humans have been killing animals for food for a long time. Modern people don't see that side of things anymore, we get to live the comfortable life and everything is dropped in front of us. But that's the nature of human society, we specialise in tasks and share the workload.

If all the meat eaters started hunting it would probably be a disaster, our domestic animals take us out of that cycle which is probably a good thing for all the other animals because we were far to good at hunting, even going back to stone age times the human drove other animals to extinction.

I think domestication is a good deal for both animals, once intensive farming is ruled out. The prey animal gets to live a comfortable life protected by nature's most dangerous animal, we spread their genes throughout the planet which is all that genes really care about, and we get a regular food and resource source. Cattle are big dangerous animals, if they weren't happy with the deal they'd be a real handful to deal with, almost making them impossible to handle. But you go to just about any farm in the country and it's clear the cattle see the farmer as a provider, they run up to him and there's a certain level of trust apparent. That trust doesn't extend to every human though.

I think we humans have soured the deal, we're taking advantage with intensive farming. We need to redress the balance.

wes

The animals were bred to be docile, and to act that way over many gernerations.