Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

McDermotX

Hmmm.......not quite up to the expectations TBH.

It's impressive, but somewhat lacking in tangible feeling and expression, with a first hour that is extremely ponderous with only it's observations around religious mania and messianic machinations giving any sense of progression. Very surprised at that given the effort put into the first part putting its chess-pieces into place, but Villeneuve does have a tendency to 'over-egg' leading to a flabby midsection (BR2049) not to mention one of my, admittedly unfair, feeling so about the first part - it was always a film that felt either 20mins too long or two hours too short for me.

I guess it's one of the disappointments with this, in that, at the time, I didn't think the first film could be properly judged without the whole picture, and unfortunately, it didn't improve the first film as I would have liked. Not too mention, that we have to go to the well again for the continuation of the story.

Good points....the Bene Gesserit stuff, even Pugh was a little surprise (though the accent was a weird choice....too American), along with the subsequent religious-mania (include Ferguson in this), Feyd wasn't bad either with a striking introduction, technicalities of production are again first rate. Less impressive....still not feeling those two leads, final battle scenes surprisingly weak post the inital salvo, rushed towards the end after dragging its feet

Certainly preferred the first part, especially after only rewatching last night, so I'd stick a 6/10 on this for the time being. Has it's moments, more than a few, but baulks under its weight a bit too much. There's a better film in there, no doubt about it, so it'd be interesting to see it revisited but that's too much to hope for with a Part 3 to come.

cnocbui

Back from seeing it. It's a terrific movie, however it was spoilt somewhat by Odeon having the sound way too loud. I'd say there was at least 10% distortion from their sound system in places and one driver had had enough and was actually buzzing in places.

I won't be going back to a theatre in a hurry, but I am really looking forward to watching it again at home with better image and sound quality.

techdiver

Just out of seeing it. It is much better than the first and I enjoyed a lot of it but as with the first movie (based on reviews and reactions) it is vasty overrated.

At times it's like what an art house student would produce if given an unlimited budget. Long indulgent scenes that add nothing to the story apart from bloat.

Some good scenes but every time I thought it was about to get going the breaks were applied again. Some terrible editing in there too where scenes jumped in a very inorganic way.

Still a decent watch that could have easily been 30 minutes shorter (and I'm someone that likes long movies).

6/10.

noelfirl

I thought it was great (albeit not flawless), but it needs Dune Messiah to be adapted now to come to completion.

Fingers crossed that will be greenlit soon, but from what Villeneuve has said it's probably a few years away.

pixelburp

On further reflection I think this film was a minor triumph to be honest, and while may not be a trilogy(?) that lives rent free in the pop cultural zeitgeist for years to come ala Star Wars or the Lord of the Rings trilogy, I do believe it might yet find itself up there, albeit as a more refined taste as opposed to the more emotive, visceral "canonical" blockbusters out there. Yet I'd be so bold as to say that of all the great blockbusters out there, few can claim to have had such a distinct voice and skilful hand at the tiller as Denis Vilenueve.

For sure, in translation to mainstream cinema there was always an inevitable degree of dilution of the original novel's own themes - including the (admittedly sensible) removal of the use of "jihad" in describing Paul's holy war - yet this sequel was a rather riveting bit of a polemic stealthily dressed in the robes of an elaborate, ornate blockbuster. Villeneuve showed a singular prowess in this respect and the very final moments underlined the obscenity of what was unleashed, as an ostensibly uplifting & triumphant score played over the first overtures of what was going to be a calamitous theocratic coup. Where victory had been destined to be its most pyrrhic as a railroaded protagonist was destined to be the messianic figurehead as the previous galactic order burned around him. This was the classic Chosen One storyline allowed to metastasise into a terrible religious conflagration, Paul's emotional dilemma born from the struggle to grasp at where his thirst for revenge stopped and the seductive power of his new status began. The only true humanity in this story - and honestly, the only grounded beating heart among this cast of royals and rasputins - centred around Zendaya's Chani, who slowly became a hopeless bystander as she watched her tribe become overpowered by the false hope of outsider dogma, now embraced and turned towards a terrible purpose. 

This perhaps lacked the arresting shock of the new that came with the 2021 original, but simply holding steady was its own success here: there were countless ways the ball could have been dropped yet the clarity and scope of vision remained intact; visually and aurally this was cinema continuing to deliver on its promise to take us places we couldn't imagine, witness scenes beyond imagining. This time with a smidge extra runway to push things a little further, with the most obvious standout being the entire section set on Giedi Prime, home to the provocatively depraved Harkonnen. Here, a "black sun" was the contrivance to have the entire planet - and thus the images on-screen - reduced to an inky black & almost blinding white. It was an alluring nightmare world; while the alien desert of Arrakis retained that terrible barren beauty, accentuated by the commitment to film in actual locations, the sand under people's feet real and thus adding an authenticity and lived-in tangibility sorely lacking in Hollywood. I understood the production team used "orange screen" in place of green screens, all to prevent any hint of mismatch between FX and real location - and the results remained majestic.

As with the first film, the abridged nature of the script - if one can call 166 minutes "abridged" - did mean certain aspects paled a little against the broader tragedy taking place in the heart of Arrakis; the most obvious being Florence Pugh and Christopher Walked fulfilling functional cameo roles as they milled about pretty gardens, light-years from events on the titular Dune. But when the production design of something like this was this immersive, this sumptuous, it was hard to get too irritated by any mismatch in narrative focus.

santana75

Saw part II last night and as someone earlier mentioned I found the first hour ponderous. The relationship between Paul and Chani has about as much chemistry as there is betweeb oil & water. Timothy chamalet just doesn't have that leading man vibe about him, even though hollywood is desperately trying to cast him in that role. For me it was Javier bardem who stole the movie, he is brilliant. All in all though this is a magnificent spectacle, a lot of the scenes are awe inspiring and the battle scenes are very well executed. It looks amazing and the pace does pick up towards the inevitable final battle.

o1s1n

Thought it was fantastic, my one gripe being the colossal miscasting that was Christopher Walken as Emperor Shaddam.

It was basically Christoper Walken being Christopher Walken in the Dune universe. Absolutely ridiculous. Totally took me out of the film for any scenes he was in.

Aside from that though I loved every second of it. Can't wait for Messiah.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121845546#Comment_121845546

I've seen this said a few times but don't entirely get it. Shaddam IV barely featured to the extent I didn't even get a read on the performance such that I'd have called it Default Walken; Florence Pugh had more and even she functioned as a bit of a cameo. If anything my abiding thinking was just how old he looked, hunched in that way especially old people can get.

DoctorEdgeWild

Saw this last night in Leicester Square IMAX which was a great experience.

I think Chalamet has done a great job of changing his performance between both films to reflect the development of the character.

Walken was truly terrible. Just. No.

Bardem is fantastic in this as the believer. Even the slightly comedic bits he pulls off without seeming corny.

Really enjoyed it. Now we play the waiting game... again!

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121845569#Comment_121845569

Any time he spoke it was in his trademark Christopher Walken cadence. He even has his Christopher Walken hairdo.

Don't get me wrong, I love him as an actor. But he's become a bit of a character actor at this stage and shouldn't have been in the film imo.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121845571#Comment_121845571

Bardem is fantastic in this as the believer. Even the slightly comedic bits he pulls off without seeming corny.

Another actor might have gone way too hammy with the constant "he's the Messiah!!" line readings but I think he sold the increasing hold religious fundamentalism was taking on the Fremen. Like I said the final moments could easily have come across as obviously chilling with a more direct soundtrack choice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121845592#Comment_121845592

Well, therein lies my point. Walken hasn't ever been an actor with a huge range or that chameleon quality that I ever didn't think "oh, it's Christopher Walken". So for me his Shaddam was as fine as such a small character could ever be - even if his last act "fúck it I'm off to Arrakis" was too sudden.

breezy1985

Just out and thought it was great. As good as the first with the only difference being you are obviously not shocked by the spectacle this time.

Ferguson was great again and Bardem even better than the last movie (even snuck in a Monthly Python reference). Pugh done really well with her little bit and the princess and Lady Fenring were used well to explain the "plans within plans". Walken's emperor looked a bit too doting and stupid though and I would have always seen him as a more powerful man.

Elements and plot threads of Messiah definitely seeped in as well so I'de say Villeneuve is banking on a third.

Impressed with the Maxx screen in Limerick Omniplex too. The under seat speakers worked really well with the worm scenes.

And fair play to Paul for being even louder than Morpheus 😝

Beric Dondarrion

Enjoyed Part II but not nearly as much as Part I. Thought Walken was seriously miscast, Bardem was brilliant in this segment and for me was the standout. One thing though which I thought was seriously over used was the Harkonnen's treatment of underlings. Yes they're evil, yes they're morally repugnant etc. but it got far too clichéd as the movie progressed.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846327#Comment_121846327

They overdid the Lynch style BDSM vibe for the Harkonnen's too.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846080#Comment_121846080

Well Villeneuve has said the script is there but assuming Warners green light a third, the director may horse-trade for a break; by the sounds of it he's a bit addled by constant Dune. So would depend on box office and how much runway WB give him - either way might be a few years before we see a third.

So on that note, Domestic box office opening weekend was $81 million; not too shabby and will be interesting what kind of legs it gets with the broadly positive word of mouth. For reference, the first film did $430 million total, despite COVID plus all WB getting simultaneous digital release.

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/denis-villeneuve-dune-3-script-almost-finished-1235829382/

titan18

I think not ending it here was a mistake. Messiah and further Dune stories get weird(er) and doesn't translate as well to film for the general audience.

Unless they're just going to take general bits from it (Chani, Irulan and Paul's thing and heir elements) and maybe bring in more of the wars between the time gap.

As for this film, it's excellent. Very much enjoyed it.

BolloxChop

Saw it this evening. Absolutely fantastic film. This was easily my favourite scene in the movie..

https://youtu.be/4HB7zqP9QNo

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847071#Comment_121847071

Messiah doesn't really get more weird than the original. It starts going bonkers once it focuses on Alia and the kids in Children.

Messiah is slower and more political but they have already brought forward some of the politics to this movie.

pixelburp

In fairness, this sequel was itself weird considering a main character in this film was a hyper evolved fetus growing in Jessica's womb. It does get more into the weeds of the weird stuff all right, Messiah the third book being the last outwardly political books. And also much shorter than the original tome so easier to make a single film from it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847399#Comment_121847399

I imagine the foetus was done because the book version was too much for casual fans (and probably hard to cast). I would have preferred if we got the crazy knife child though.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847422#Comment_121847422

Alia as a murderous child with a knife would at least have absolutely, categorically, underlined the idea that this did not have a happy ending; I'm quite astounded that I've seen a lot of (non sarcastic) snark about this being a "white saviour" movie - when it is quite clearly anything but that. Quite the opposite from the off.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847371#Comment_121847371

😉😁

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847461#Comment_121847461

The entire point is privileged saviour types are not to be blindly followed or worshipped.

At no stage in the second movie did I ever think Paul was being portrayed as a hero as opposed to a protagonist which people seem to confuse.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847371#Comment_121847371

I dunno, I find the whole Tleilaxu and Ghola stuff might be a bit much for general audiences, and his kids do come into it a bit here.

Also, ending a trilogy with a political movie that has very few battles (unless they bring those in from the intervening years) won't really sell for audiences I'd think. People will be disappointed expecting similar as Part 2

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847578#Comment_121847578

It's got a few weird bits alright but I reckon they are ones you can just leave out. I never understood the need for Gholas or the love for Duncan. He just seems to me to be such a minor character.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847470#Comment_121847470

Herbert's work had a fairly horny streak really; thinking of something like Hellstrom's Hive of his non-Dune works and how a great deal of that book worked sex into the whole narrative (IIRC a character is even killed via sex)

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847688#Comment_121847688

Ya, I do think they'll need to bring battles in to it. If you go from an epic like this to a slower film like Messiah is, I think you disappoint a lot of people. They'd need to just skip most of the time gap and show some of the holy war and then have the political and heir side alongside that I think, at which point you're only loosely adapting Messiah then.

Cordell

It can have big epic battles from the jihad and it can have some epic stone burner Oppenheimer like moment to provide the eye candy. And it can also develop all the lore and background that was left out from the first 2, and that will make a perfect ending of a brilliant trilogy.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847933#Comment_121847933

There's plenty of the Jihad you can cover if some action set-pieces are required, as well as expanding out how the Great Houses have reacted to Paul's ascension to Messiah. Long while since I read Dune: Messiah but aren't there a bunch of still-active disparate forces plotting against him from the Houses?

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847071#Comment_121847071

would you recommend reading messiah, i just read the first one.