Roundabout right of way

grogi

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I wouldn't argue of the legal standing on the way to work.

That's why this thread, so that you can get acquainted with it, know it and don't have to think about it on your way to work.

Hilly Bill

grogi wrote: »

That's why this thread, so that you can get acquainted with it, know it and don't have to think about it on your way to work.

If you are not acquainted with the rules of the road the getting a bus would be a better option.

trellheim

All I gather from this thread is that several people have very different opinions and have no intention of changing

CramCycle

I love roundabout discussions, they do exactly what they say on the tin :pac:

2 lanes entering with one lane on the far side. Stay in the left lane and indicate once past the last turn before yours. The only exception to this is where it is clear that almost everyone in the left lane is using the first exit, and you can see this (can happen with an obstruction just past the roundabout out the first exit), then move into the right lane and enter the roundabout, indicating to change lane and then exit the roundabout as soon as it is safe and clear to do so.

In Ireland, god only knows, I see cars entering in the left turn only lane on the M50/Sandyford roundabout to go all the way around to the third exit for Dundrum. I see it alot. To the point where some people must think this is reasonable behaviour.

CalamariFritti

grogi wrote: »

You really don't know me. I am polite and calm driver, but unfortunately I am allergic to stupidity, repeating myths and any form of mambo-jumbo.

Why would you not be? I know i used the 'you' but I thought we are talking in hypothetical scenarios here. Not about the actual you and the actual me.

And as it happens I'm the same. All of it.

CalamariFritti

trellheim wrote: »

All I gather from this thread is that several people have very different opinions and have no intention of changing

Well there is one thing which is talking on the internet and then there is another thing which is the real world.

I wonder how many of the people seemingly arguing that line would fancy their chances in court after cutting across from the right lane into a single lane exit with someone on their left? Or better how many of those would see nothing wrong with it if they sat in the car that has the left lane?

I dare say not many.

I'd. be a very calm man in court if I was in the left lane.

Hilly Bill

I've often gone straight from the right side on roundabouts but if a car was on my inside the id let it exit before me. It's only an issue in the event of an accident and you are looking at who's to blame.

Corca Baiscinn

It's waiting to go left at the roundabout but can't because there's an obstruction past the roundabout, like a bloody pedestrian crossing.

I thanked you for the explanation as hadn't thought of that but now I have a new question. What are "bloody" pedestrians supposed to do when all their business is not on the same side of the road?

Del2005

Isambard wrote: »

usually what happens is the white line between the lanes finishes and then there is only one lane and you merge in turn, ie the car furthest forward has priority.

If the white line between the lanes ends then the overtaking lane ends and the driving lane continues, car in the overtaking lane is supposed to give way when changing lanes.

mikeymouse

Del2005 wrote: »

If the white line between the lanes ends then the overtaking lane ends and the driving lane continues, car in the overtaking lane is supposed to give way when changing lanes.

The driving lane is also obliged to accomodate merging traffic ie; use the "zipper method"

my3cents

mikeymouse wrote: »

The driving lane is also obliged to accomodate merging traffic ie; use the "zipper method"

We should have used the zipper method here about 5 pages back

grogi

mikeymouse wrote: »

The driving lane is also obliged to accomodate merging traffic ie; use the "zipper method"

Same as the roundabout clock rules, this is just driving etiquette. Nobody is obliged to accommodate merging traffic - it is sole responsibility of the merging party to do it safely.

Isambard

grogi wrote: »

Same as the roundabout clock rules, this is just driving etiquette. Nobody is obliged to accommodate merging traffic - it is sole responsibility of the merging party to do it safely.

agreed but by the same token , no one should take action to prevent people merging and you see that often.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Yanu wrote: »

Hi,

Sorry for the dumb question...

Two cars on a two lanes road (one in each lane) approach a roundabout and there is only one lane at the second exit (straight ahead). Who has the right to pass? The one driving on the left lane or the one on the right one?

Thanks

Depends on the lane/road markings. There's roundabouts where the left lane markings indicate a left turn or straight ahead only, and where the right lane is for second or more exits.

CramCycle

Bristol Enough Tinder wrote: »

Depends on the lane/road markings. There's roundabouts where the left lane markings indicate a left turn or straight ahead only, and where the right lane is for second or more exits.

I love when they put that marking on the road where it cannot be seen in heavy traffic rather than having a bloody sign so everyone knows what the story is.

grogi

CramCycle wrote: »

I love when they put that marking on the road where it cannot be seen in heavy traffic rather than having a bloody sign so everyone knows what the story is.

What's more, typically there is no obligation (in a form of solid line) to keep the same lane at the RB. You can change the lane and exit wherever suits you, as long as you entered from the correct lane.

animaal

Seems to be a common problem - sound advice in the ROTR, but no basis in statute.

The thing that really grinds my gears are the people who enter a roundabout in the left lane at six o'clock, then travel most of the way around the roundabout in the left lane, to exit at 3 o'clock. I bet there's no law about that either.

grogi

animaal wrote: »

Seems to be a common problem - sound advice in the ROTR, but no basis in statute.

The thing that really grinds my gears are the people who enter a roundabout in the left lane at six o'clock, then travel most of the way around the roundabout in the left lane, to exit at 3 o'clock. I bet there's no law about that either.

No, there is none. And in fairness there can't be.

It is the roundabouts that need to change, turbine enforces proper lane utilization...

animaal

grogi wrote: »

It is the roundabouts that need to change, turbine enforces proper lane utilization...

Are they the "spirally" white lines emanating from the centre outwards? They'd help alright.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

CramCycle wrote: »

I love when they put that marking on the road where it cannot be seen in heavy traffic rather than having a bloody sign so everyone knows what the story is.

Where I live, there's a roundabout where on approach the single lane filters in to two lanes, and then there's no lane markings on the friggin roundabout. If approaching from Malahide, the single filters in to two lanes. The left is supposed to be a left turn only and the right is for straight ahead and right turns....it would be a money making spinner....cos nobody has any concept of lane discipline.

sydthebeat

What drives me mad is the idiot who approaches on the left, indicates right, and maintains right indication all the way to the 3 o clock exit while driving in the left lane.

Delacent

sydthebeat wrote: »

What drives me mad is the idiot who approaches on the left, indicates right, and maintains right indication all the way to the 3 o clock exit while driving in the left lane.

But shure he's indicating that he's going onto the roundabout - never know with de auld technology in de cars these days, he could be going straight up in the air and he reckons you need know that he's decided to take the roundabout.

ongarboy

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Well there is one thing which is talking on the internet and then there is another thing which is the real world.

I wonder how many of the people seemingly arguing that line would fancy their chances in court after cutting across from the right lane into a single lane exit with someone on their left? Or better how many of those would see nothing wrong with it if they sat in the car that has the left lane?

I dare say not many.

I'd. be a very calm man in court if I was in the left lane.

I would normally agree with staying in the left lane if you're going straight but what if the straight ahead has two continuing lanes? Would it be ok to be in the right lane of the roundabout there and then exit onto the right lane of the straight while a driver on your left would exit onto the left lane? Roads with bus lanes off roundabouts typically have this set up with about 50 meters clearance for a left lane car to merge into the right lane before that lane becomes a bus lane. Power City roundabout on way to Ongar has this set up.

This thread has confused me so not sure what's correct in that scenario.

grogi

ongarboy wrote: »

I would normally agree with staying in the left lane if you're going straight but what if the straight ahead has two continuing lanes? Would it be ok to be in the right lane of the roundabout there and then exit onto the right lane of the straight while a driver on your left would exit onto the left lane? Roads with bus lanes off roundabouts typically have this set up with about 50 meters clearance for a left lane car to merge into the right lane before that lane becomes a bus lane. Power City roundabout on way to Ongar has this set up.

It is fine, but you need to be sure that the car in the left lane will take the exit too.

And that's the clue why the common design of the roundabout is wrong. There might be multiple lanes on the roundabout, multiple lanes at the exit road, but only one lane can safely, confidently and in smooth way exit the roundabout - the left one. Motorist exiting from any other lane need to be sure that they will not cause an accident by going through the left lane - so effectively they need to wait until it is empty...

This thread has confused me so not sure what's correct in that scenario.

There is no correct way... As long as you don't intrude into lane occupied by any other car, you're doing it right.



I honestly find RSA, in its attempts to convince road users how to use the roundabouts with the o'clock rules, doing more harm than good. I understand their rationale - to make the traffic more fluent - but the promoted rules give motorist false sense of doing right while contradict road traffic acts.

Instead they should advertise for:
a) different roundabout designs - I have mentioned many times before in many different threads - the turbine is better than multi-lane roundabout. If you entered in the correct lane, the road will guide you to the correct exit while utilising all lanes in the RB.

b) promote much simpler rule: first exit => left lane. Any other exit => other lane.

c) lobby to introduce the rule above into a traffic act.

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

It is fine, but you need to be sure that the car in the left lane will take the exit too.

And that's the clue why the common design of the roundabout is wrong. There might be multiple lanes on the roundabout, multiple lanes at the exit road, but only one lane can safely, confidently and in smooth way exit the roundabout - the left one. Motorist exiting from any other lane need to be sure that they will not cause an accident by going through the left lane - so effectively they need to wait until it is empty...



There is no correct way... As long as you don't intrude into lane occupied by any other car, you're doing it right.



I honestly find RSA, in its attempts to convince road users how to use the roundabouts with the o'clock rules, doing more harm than good. I understand their rationale - to make the traffic more fluent - but the promoted rules give motorist false sense of doing right while contradict road traffic acts.

Instead they should advertise for:
a) different roundabout designs - I have mentioned many times before in many different threads - the turbine is better than multi-lane roundabout. If you entered in the correct lane, the road will guide you to the correct exit while utilising all lanes in the RB.

b) promote much simpler rule: first exit => left lane. Any other exit => other lane.

c) lobby to introduce the rule above into a traffic act.

Can you link to a turbine roundabout? I've tried Google but only getting a wiki link and I can't see that being feasible

grogi

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you link to a turbine roundabout? I've tried Google but only getting a wiki link and I can't see that being feasible

It seems it is also called turbo roundabout. I have met the name whirlpool as well...

Examples... that is a small one:



But they can grow... That's a rather big and complex one in Amsterdam:



The problem with them is you can just bring the roads together to the circle and forget about it.

An engineer needs to design the lane flow, taking the volume of cars from/to each exit into account. Additionally each entrance needs to have markings as which lane to take (although it might default to the 'first exit, left lane' rule)


I personally know this one, it's by my parents house. It used to be a regular roundabout, but it was converted to turbo/turbine later - the traffic islands are clearly visible. The improvement in traffic flow is unreal.

It is very busy right now (~6k people estate to the east, shopping centres to the west, a big swimming pool to the south and motorway exits nearby), but I don't remember I have seen a jam there (unless the nearby shopping centre parking is full before xmas - but you can't blame the junction for that...)

grogi

grogi wrote: »

I personally know this one, it's by my parents house. It used to be a regular roundabout, but it was converted to turbo/turbine later - the traffic islands are clearly visible. The improvement in traffic flow is unreal.

That's a nice page about the subject, with some research to back it up...

http://www.turboroundabout.com/benefits.html

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

It seems it is also called turbo roundabout. I have met the name whirlpool as well...

Examples... that is a small one:



But they can grow... That's a rather big and complex one in Amsterdam:

They look great and make sense, so there's little chance of them being implemented here.

magicbastarder

for a few seconds, the roundabout wasn't making much sense to me till i copped it's a right hand drive road system.

dr.fuzzenstein

Del2005 wrote: »

They look great and make sense, so there's little chance of them being implemented here.

Would never work in Ireland. I have seen too many people enter a roundabout from the left lane, indicate left and go to the last exit whilst indicating left the whole way. Other drivers enter from the left, indicate left, change lanes to the right hand lane whilst indicating right, the switch left again without indicating and exit straight ahead. The problem is that too many people simply don't know the rules or make up their own here. If turbine roundabouts were to work, they would have to have solid legal foundations, so there can be no doubt that these idiots cannot obfuscate their way out of this.
In practice a lot of roundabout accidents end up being 50/50, because the judge can't be arsed.