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The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭ Cill94


    I don't disagree with that. People taking gear and cutting to dangerously low body fat percentages probably are damaging their health.

    I'm saying that we don't have the evidence to assert that it's unhealthy for someone to be naturally heavy but lean. Basically non-steroid taking recreational lifters.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    I know people who were sub 10% for years, through a combination of training and clean eating. I don't think it's that uncommon - a lot easier in your 20s without kids and if your career is a bit light for the time being. It's not inherently unsafe or unsustainable and doesn't require drugs.

    I think the most common reason people abandon it is them or their partner has a baby. The early years are great but a killer in terms of stress, sleep, diet and training consistency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,061 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    I specifically mentioned hormones rather than steroids for that reasons. HGH screws people up



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    I’ve a new favourite gym stereotype:


    The MMA bro. Thermal longs under a tap out t shirt and Muay Thai shorts. Always barefoot.


    My only concern is why are they so cold? I’m wearing a sleeveless t shirt and shorts.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 37,061 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    They are for grappling. They should be pretty light, not thermal. But no idea why they are wearing them in the gym while barefoot. Ditto the Muay Thai shorts



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    I'm completely prejudiced against anyone who wears Tapout to be honest, end of story.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    I see people grappling in them all the time. But to very clear, these guys aren’t grappling. There’s a BJJ club in the gym. These guys come and go from the weights section in this outfit.


    They’ve almost completely replaced the lads wearing belts to curl. Could even be the same lads.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    At least these guys are in the gym. most lads I see wearing them haven’t troubled a gym in years.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 37,061 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Yeah. I got that they were swanning about the gym/weights area. And assumed that you wouldn’t mention it if they were doing it pre/post bjj.

    I was just saying that those long pants and tops aren’t very thermal. Or at least they shouldn’t be. Who knows what these lads have pulled out.


    I think I’ve seen more tap-out in bars than anywhere else.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?



    The underwear thing is bizarre. My gym is split into 4 quadrants. Weights/Cardio, CrossFit, BJJ and boxing.


    Lads wearing underwear on the same day the cross fitters are topless.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,506 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp


    I had one of those rare leg days yesterday (or first) where everything felt 10KG lighter, did my heaviest back squat ever but probably could have added 10KG and other exercises similar. I cant pin it on anything unfortunately , should be a good motivator for this month though

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    I've been doing a lot of training recently with a pure hypertrophy focus, and it's really taken me away from focusing on my numbers on the big 3 - or indeed any compound lifts.

    I've been using such a strict tempo that I've had to dramatically drop the work set weights I'm using. It's been really interesting, to take the example of quad dominant trap bar deadlifts, a 3 second eccentric has me using about 60-70% of what I could do for a top set if I let myself pull glute dominant and without any eccentric other than controlling the bar down as normal (I never do touch and go no matter what I'm doing).

    What exacerbates this is that I'm putting all my quad dominant stuff into the same lower body day, and my glute / hamstring dominant stuff into the other day. Beginning the quad day with a top set of heavy leg extensions, and the other day with leg curls, it adds up to a form of pre-exhaustion for everything else that comes after.

    When you add in bands, rest / pause and drop set techniques to the above, I am suddenly using a lot less plates.

    If I were going back to the threads we had here at the beginning of COVID, when the gyms were shut, if someone training at home wanted to try to hold onto muscle mass, I would say:-

    1- Pre-exhaust all the way... Flyes before chest pressing, lat raises before shoulder pressing, banded leg extension before quad dominant split squats, banded leg curls before RDLs and so on.

    2- A few feeder sets to get ready, but then if the pre-exhaustion has done its work then it should be possible to still go to failure even with moderate DBs or whatever.

    3- Using light bands behind the back to increase tension at the top of all presses is a game changer, I wish I'd discovered this years ago. I did banded push-ups in the past, but it somehow escaped my notice that running a light band behind the back completely changes the top of the movement when doing DB bench, incline DB shoulder press and so on.

    3- Tempo, tempo tempo... Increasing the eccentric, adding pauses or holds at the top or bottom... Further reduce the need for big weights at home.

    Why bother? Well, less weight required, less volume required, quicker workouts. Definitely more relevant for hypertrophy than strength training it must be said, although I suspect the carryover is better than people imagine.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    I'm starting to think that one of the next trends to hit the training community is going to be the rediscovery of how to effectively train the quads, or just teaching people how to tell when a movement is quad dominant and when it is glute / hamstring / hips.

    Conventional wisdom for years has been that it's the posterior chain which is weak, relative to the quads and other muscles on the front of the body, but I'm just not sure that's the case any more. If the quads are still up there then it's certainly not because they're being trained effectively in gyms on a regular basis...

    Even when people are trying to bias their quads, or performing a movement they believe is quad dominant, they appear to often end up altering the movement pattern to get as much posterior chain involved as possible, because it feels more comfortable to them or they move more weight that way. I think a lot of the time they don't even realise they're doing it, and I'll put my hand up and say for many years I would put myself in that camp.

    If your shins are remaining vertical on any movement, whether it's something involving free weights or a machine like a leg press, and there's no significant knee flexion going on, then what you're doing isn't quad dominant.

    Sometimes it doesn't matter, but in the long term, for most people, it's going to be worth figuring out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,506 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp


    is there a hangover that you shouldnt put your knee over your toes? I have been doing weighted step ups since the summer and I want to add in the sissy squat in a month or 2.


    this guy seems to cover some of your points


    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    I’m not sure safety concerns by themselves have that much explanatory power when it comes to this. It’s not that people know and choose not to, I think there is a prevailing lack of awareness about what’s a quad dominant lower body movement and why.

    Some people might say certain movements are dangerous, another line of argument will be that “it doesn’t really matter” (It depends, sometimes it doesn’t).

    Step ups I never really liked. If you’re looking for something unilateral and quad dominant they’re not an obvious choice. Typically performed as glutes and hamstring dominant. Alternatives: Walking lunges where you really push off the front knee and up… or split squats with front heel elevated, probably most idiot proof. Those and leg extensions are probably the simplest way to train the average punter’s quads.

    I do sissy squats but I don’t think everyone needs to, although they’re no riskier than the fads for pistols or muscle-ups that have come and gone.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,506 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp


    In general terms I see a value in longevity/injury reduction/improved mobility by strengthening my joints & tendons along ranges of motion I cant do currently so its on the list.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    Sissy squats are a way of almost totally unloading the posterior chain and training the quads in the lengthened position. They’re the epitome of a quad dominant movement and the potential quad development is the main reason to do them.

    There are safer ways to prehab your knees if longevity and general health are your goals, but as with anything in the training world there’s always a push for new content to turn heads on IG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,061 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Time to cut after and extended holiday of food and drink. I usually try to take extra vitamins and the like when cutting. Nothing major, Vit b, magnesium, creatine.

    The was a herbal supplement mentioned on the forum a while back. I usually dismiss it as tribulus type nonsense. But this one had fairly strong support on examine.com

    anyone know what it might be based on that vague description?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,353 ✭✭✭✭ Dtp1979


    Ashwagada?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,061 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Maybe. Sounds familiar. And reads like it’s pretty positive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,506 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp



    Not resistance training related as such but I would looking for some sprinting drills to do and stumbled over this, looks impressive when tis done well



    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭ JayRoc


    A new one for me yesterday; fella had his phone in the sauna.


    And not just to check something vital, he was fluting around with it the whole time I was in there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,061 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Seems like having a phone in the there makes odds tbh.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    Very off-topic, but I've been a fan of Dorian Yates for years. His achievements, his training methods, the backstory...

    I knew that he had gone a little bit new age and "out there" a few years ago, and gotten into psychedelics and ayahuasca, but I don't think I quite appreciated how full-on into conspiracy theory stuff he is now.

    Just listened to a podcast he did with True Geordie (Themselves not averse to a bit of conspiracy theory stuff, it must be said), and he seems to be a follower of David Icke for the past number of years. Secret families controlling the world, COVID is obviously a fake, plans for a New World Order, population replacement, believes there is something in tap water than encrusts the pineal gland, believes there is a cure for cancer that is being suppressed etc. etc. He even went into things like young adult movies like 'The Hunger Games', he argues dystopian SF is a way of preparing people for the totalitarian superstate that is coming, that they'll be a part of. He finished by saying that we're in the middle of a war, basically, and that he was on the side of god / a cosmic force for good.

    I'm not mentioning all of this to make fun of him or whatever, just still surprises me when someone I respect in one aspect (his approach to training) turns out to hold these "out there" beliefs in other areas.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    That’s a shame. You’d think someone who was so analytical and had such a science based approach to training wouldn’t be hoodwinked by charlatans so easily.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Black Sheep


    It's an interesting one.

    Some of Dorian's personality traits, and the analytical streak you mention, would make me wonder if he wouldn't get an autism diagnosis if he was going to school these days, and got an assessment.

    If you look at his life, although he enjoyed major successes in bodybuilding he also had a few notable traumas: Kicked out of his family home, imprisoned in borstal .... Then a period of stability and success in bodybuilding ... And then an unplanned exit from the sport due to injury, some other issues he doesn't talk about, divorce from his wife...

    I do think a lot of people who really go deep into some conspiracy theories, and maybe some kinds of outright extreme ideology, end up there not because they're stupid, but because they went through a trauma or particular event that makes the explanatory power of conspiracy theories and similar systems of thought very appealing...

    They offer you an explanation for almost everything that goes wrong in your life or that of the people around you. That can be appealing, there's always a straightforward place to direct your anger, and you can paint yourself as a victim when it suits, or a staunch hero in other circumstances etc.

    I don't think he's a bad guy, but it seems like he has replaced his pro bodybuilder persona with a new persona that is based around this idea that he is a kind of new agey truth-seeker. It could be worse, at least he's not a nazi!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭ Cill94


    I think it's easy to forget that logical thinking and an emphasis around requiring 'evidence' for our beliefs, is a very new thing for humanity, and not a skillset that the average person learns. It was only a few thousand years ago (blip in humanity's existence) that most people worshipped things like the sun. Our brains are wired for finding patterns and meaning where there are none.


    In Ireland and many Western states, we're only about one generation into a fairly god-less society. I think that leaves a certain void of meaning that many people will want to fill, and that often ends up being things like the above conspiracy, or some other type of community with a philosophy behind it that provides a lot of certainty about the world (..Crossfit? 😜).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭ JayRoc


    Not quite as much a headscratcher as bringing your phone into the sauna, but another lad today had his phone wrapped up in his towel in the wet area and every few minutes he'd hop out of the jacuzzi, steam room etc and sit scrolling social media on his phone before going back.


    I know it doesn't impact me directly but I find it really weird! And kinda pathetic tbh


    (I barely had 5 years on him, before someone asks!)

    Post edited by JayRoc on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭ JayRoc


    I'm trying to remember where I met Dorian (in Ireland) a few years back. I want to say it was at The Olympia? At a BB show presumably. Seemed a pleasant chap for the few seconds we talked



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