Proposed end to Bus Eireann intercity services

Koptain Liverpool

Bus services on many intercity routes have been cut back and become more expensive in recent years.

The latest news seems to suggest that intercity bus services could be curtailed altogether as they're not profitable.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/radical-surgery-may-be-needed-at-bus-%C3%A9ireann-1.2931954

Whatever about the need for a national airline it is essential for a country like Ireland to have a national network of intercity buses.

While not important for most people in Dublin, Cork, and Galway, it would be a massive blow for people in the rest of the country as the private operators only cover major routes.

If it's not profitable then it should be fully subsidized.

oppenheimer1

If it's not profitable, why is it as usual that the government are called on to bail them out with subsidy?

Let them cut costs first.

jacksie66

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hmmm

We need InterCity and Inter Town bus services, and the government should subsidise them if necessary. We don't need Expressway to be the one to deliver them.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Intercity private buses are thriving and profitable. Bus Eireann can't make them pay but we non-Dublin people are now well served with regular, inexpensive, quality private bus services nowadays.

Koptain Liverpool

Laura Thoughtless Purple wrote: »

Intercity private buses are thriving and profitable. Bus Eireann can't make them pay but we non-Dublin people are now well served with regular, inexpensive, quality private bus services nowadays.

Where do you live? A major regional town I would guess.

Left solely to private operators only the major routes will be served.

Do the private operators offer any services late at night for the airport etc.

Badly Drunk Boy

"Bus Éireann has about 2,600 staff, and in essence has three divisions; the commercial Expressway inter-city services, the State-subsidised routes that operate within cities and between towns, and the school transport services."

If it's only the first of these three divisions of Bus Eireann, it shouldn't be that big a problem since the private operators will serve them anyway. If the routes between cities and towns, that's a different matter.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Where do you live? A major regional town I would guess.

Left solely to private operators only the major routes will be served.

Do the private operators offer any services late at night for the airport etc.

It's immaterial where I live, but it's not a major regional town. The thread in about inter city is it not? And private operators cover inter city very well. And, yes, they most certainly offer late night runs that include the airport.

Hector Bellend

I travel around Ireland watching GAA.

Even for a pastime such as this an Intercity bus service can be an important factor.

Undoubtedly there are people who rely on it for more important reasons.


Even in Dublin there are more towns served by the bus service than there are by rail.

_Jamie_

Laura Thoughtless Purple wrote: »

The thread in about inter city is it not?

Well, intercity would cover the whole rural network really, not all Irish Rail intercity services links cities to Dublin (Sligo, Westport, Tralee), it's a catch-all phrase for the rural network. It's the same with Bus Eireann. Private operators would be much less extensive as it simply wouldn't be profitable to have as extensive a network as Bus Eireann have. Bus Eireann's money woes demonstrate this.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

_Jamie_ wrote: »

Well, intercity would cover the whole rural network really, not all Irish Rail intercity services links cities to Dublin (Sligo, Westport, Tralee), it's a catch-all phrase for the rural network. It's the same with Bus Eireann. Private operators would be much less extensive as it simply wouldn't be profitable to have as extensive a network as Bus Eireann have. Bus Eireann's money woes demonstrate this.

It's patently clear the problems are with the Expressway arm of the business.

hmmm

_Jamie_ wrote: »

Private operators would be much less extensive as it simply wouldn't be profitable to have as extensive a network as Bus Eireann have.

If a service is required, the government will put it out to tender and subsidise it if needed. It doesn't matter who is providing it - private or public. We had a pretty poor service back in the days when we were reliant on the goodwill of CIE, private operators have brought in most of the innovations in the market.

_Jamie_

Laura Thoughtless Purple wrote: »

It's patently clear the problems are with the Expressway arm of the business.

Is it? That's very hard to believe and the RTÉ article I'm reading on it does not single out Expressway.

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If it's not profitable, why is it as usual that the government are called on to bail them out with subsidy?

because in terms of PSO routes which they are expected to run, it is the job of the government to pay for them. in terms of the expressway which is not subsidized and is a commercial operation, bus eireann will have to figure out the best course of action of their own accord and won't be getting any bailout.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Let them cut costs first.

that is what they are doing.

jacksie66 wrote: »

Meh. It doesn't bother me when many private operators do a better job cheaper and quicker.

because they aren't expected to serve everywhere and won't have the politicians on their back if they change/cut/remove services, unlike bus eireann even on their commercial expressway services which don't and will never receive a subsidy. i'm sure those people who rely on those services would be bothered.

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Where do you live? A major regional town I would guess.

Left solely to private operators only the major routes will be served.

Do the private operators offer any services late at night for the airport etc.

they do depending on the routes

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

We need InterCity and Inter Town bus services, and the government should subsidise them if necessary. We don't need Expressway to be the one to deliver them.

i would agree with that. however it is in the governments interest for expressway to take up as much of the slack as possible as the government don't really want to pay for public transport (or any services to be frank)

hmmm wrote: »

If a service is required, the government will put it out to tender and subsidise it if needed.

they may not. it's not something one should simply bank on happening.

hmmm wrote: »

It doesn't matter who is providing it - private or public.

it actually might do as private operators aren't going to tolerate having subsidy upped and cut on a whim whenever the government feels like it, meaning potential for route cuts rather then the government simply paying up.

hmmm wrote: »

We had a pretty poor service back in the days when we were reliant on the goodwill of CIE, private operators have brought in most of the innovations in the market.

what innovations have been brought in

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

what innovations have been brought in

A reasonable cost base is probably the most game changing innovation ever in an Irish public transport context.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Laura Thoughtless Purple wrote: »

It's patently clear the problems are with the Expressway arm of the business.

_Jamie_ wrote: »

Is it? That's very hard to believe and the RTÉ article I'm reading on it does not single out Expressway.

Latest bulletin front RTE..

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0111/844179-bus-eireann/

Permabear

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eeguy

Permabear wrote: »

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It's more of a legacy issue than an overpayment issue.

BE drivers could be working 30 years in the job, getting incremental wage increases.

A new private operator comes in, pays new staff a starting wage, undercuts BE by a huge margin and dominates the route. After a few years they're forced to increase fares and end up in the same place.

I don't know for a fact, but I imaging Matthews Coaches (Dundalk-Dublin) route is going this way. 10 years ago it was €10 return, now it's €15.
They have a modern fleet and LEAP fares have skewed prices slightly, but I'd imagine wage increases have also played a part.

westcoast66

Laura Thoughtless Purple wrote: »

Latest bulletin front RTE..

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0111/844179-bus-eireann/

However, the consultants also warn that redundancy costs could potentially top €85m, with some senior employees in line for pay-offs of over €500,000.

Nice gig if you can get it....

Permabear

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RobertKK

From Kilkenny to Dublin return:

Bus Eireann €25.38 (it is 25 something, and around 38 cent)
Dublin coach €30
Kavanaghs €30

biko

Large cities already have good connection points. We must make sure small towns and villages are not cut off from bus services.

Koptain Liverpool

Some argue that it doesn't matter if a public or private operator runs intercity services. My argument would be that for a private company profitability always comes first.

Can we really trust private bus operators to continue to run to all current towns and cities even if some routes are very unprofitable?

If strict legislation was put in place to ensure that private operators met certain conditions in relation to routes and timetables then I would be more inclined to agree that full privatization could work. I don't see this happening though.

Failing that I'd prefer to have the intercity bus network operated publicly.

FionnK86

RobertKK wrote: »

From Kilkenny to Dublin return:

Bus Eireann €25.38 (it is 25 something, and around 38 cent)
Dublin coach €30
Kavanaghs €30

RobertKK,

Dublin Coach is €20 not €30 for a return ticket from Kilkenny to Dublin.



Source: http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/M9-waterford-kilkenny-dublin-bus.php

Anita Blow

An intercity network is essential so if needs be, increase the subvention. But any additional taxpayer funds provided should be coupled to cost-cutting measures such as employee numbers/remuneration. The fact that only a couple of months ago BE bus drivers were looking for a pay increase when their employer is haemorrhaging money shows just how pie-in-the-sky their demands are.

marvin80

RobertKK wrote: »

From Kilkenny to Dublin return:

Bus Eireann €25.38 (it is 25 something, and around 38 cent)
Dublin coach €30
Kavanaghs €30

I got a Kavanaghs bus from Dublin to Clonmel a few weeks ago return - €20 so I'd presume to Kilkenny it's a little cheaper again.

Billy86

Transport in Ireland would be so, so much better if Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus ceased to exist ASAP and were replaced by private operators.

Vic_08

FionnK86 wrote: »

RobertKK,

Dublin Coach is €20 not €30 for a return ticket from Kilkenny to Dublin.



Source: http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/M9-waterford-kilkenny-dublin-bus.php

...And Bus Eireann are €10 single and €16.50 return not 25.38

Total fares fail RobertKK

Pablo Escobar

marvin80 wrote: »

RobertKK wrote: »

From Kilkenny to Dublin return:

Bus Eireann €25.38 (it is 25 something, and around 38 cent)
Dublin coach €30
Kavanaghs €30

I got a Kavanaghs bus from Dublin to Clonmel a few weeks ago return - €20 so I'd presume to Kilkenny it's a little cheaper again.

And BE usually comes in between €15-€19 depending on when you book. I'm not sure where Robert got his info from.

Pablo Escobar

marvin80 wrote: »

RobertKK wrote: »

From Kilkenny to Dublin return:

Bus Eireann €25.38 (it is 25 something, and around 38 cent)
Dublin coach €30
Kavanaghs €30

I got a Kavanaghs bus from Dublin to Clonmel a few weeks ago return - €20 so I'd presume to Kilkenny it's a little cheaper again.

And BE usually comes in between €15-€19 depending on when you book. I'm not sure where Robert got his info from.