Bust Éireann

Bass Reeves

Infini2 wrote: »

All I can see is this is gonna get nasty. Ross not even reading the report IS rather silly for example hes the guy at the top. As for the way things are going everything needs to be looked at expecially since if BE goes to the wall the other 2 companies will go on strike, I personally would if it did since there would be no telling what kind of damage it could have like in regards to the pensions for example. That being said I dont see a semi state being allowed to go to the wall the taxpayer would be on the hook for far larger an amount if it did and the fallout would be significant both politically and socially.

Unions and staff arent the sole problem simply ranting at them is shortsighed and pointless and if things are as bad as they are the whole thing needs to be looked at and that includes how the management, NTA and government have handled thingss.

Irish shipping was left go to the wall when debt was too large to comprehend saving the company. The reality that some cannot understand is that giving rescue aid to a company in the commercial area is not allowed under EU rules. The rest of the group going on strike will only put them companies under pressure.

Bass Reeves

Infini2 wrote: »

All I can see is this is gonna get nasty. Ross not even reading the report IS rather silly for example hes the guy at the top. As for the way things are going everything needs to be looked at expecially since if BE goes to the wall the other 2 companies will go on strike, I personally would if it did since there would be no telling what kind of damage it could have like in regards to the pensions for example. That being said I dont see a semi state being allowed to go to the wall the taxpayer would be on the hook for far larger an amount if it did and the fallout would be significant both politically and socially.

Unions and staff arent the sole problem simply ranting at them is shortsighed and pointless and if things are as bad as they are the whole thing needs to be looked at and that includes how the management, NTA and government have handled thingss.

Irish shipping was left go to the wall when debt was too large to comprehend saving the company. The reality that some cannot understand is that giving rescue aid to a company in the commercial area is not allowed under EU rules. The rest of the group going on strike will only put them companies under pressure.

n97 mini

If Expressway is losing money, and it can't take taxpayers' money under the rules, where is the money actually coming from?

magentis

Infini2 wrote: »

All I can see is this is gonna get nasty. Ross not even reading the report IS rather silly for example hes the guy at the top. As for the way things are going everything needs to be looked at expecially since if BE goes to the wall the other 2 companies will go on strike, I personally would if it did since there would be no telling what kind of damage it could have like in regards to the pensions for example. That being said I dont see a semi state being allowed to go to the wall the taxpayer would be on the hook for far larger an amount if it did and the fallout would be significant both politically and socially.

Unions and staff arent the sole problem simply ranting at them is shortsighed and pointless and if things are as bad as they are the whole thing needs to be looked at and that includes how the management, NTA and government have handled thingss.

I have no doubt that ross read that report,right before he handed it over to the media.

oppenheimer1

Infini2 wrote: »

All I can see is this is gonna get nasty. Ross not even reading the report IS rather silly for example hes the guy at the top. As for the way things are going everything needs to be looked at expecially since if BE goes to the wall the other 2 companies will go on strike, I personally would if it did since there would be no telling what kind of damage it could have like in regards to the pensions for example. That being said I dont see a semi state being allowed to go to the wall the taxpayer would be on the hook for far larger an amount if it did and the fallout would be significant both politically and socially.

Unions and staff arent the sole problem simply ranting at them is shortsighed and pointless and if things are as bad as they are the whole thing needs to be looked at and that includes how the management, NTA and government have handled thingss.

Why would the two other companies go on strike? Sympathy strikes are illegal.

Grandeeod

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Irish shipping was left go to the wall when debt was too large to comprehend saving the company. The reality that some cannot understand is that giving rescue aid to a company in the commercial area is not allowed under EU rules. The rest of the group going on strike will only put them companies under pressure.

I'm convinced that ultimately the state won't let BE go to the wall. I don't agree with that route, but a few years ago we had a similar situation in IE and Varadkar came to the rescue. The CIE group is a basket case and should be done away with through reform after reform after reform. From management, staff, unions and successive Governments, its still rotten to the core. A mess that needs serious fixing. A mess created by all involved and no accountability from any of them. Its a no win situation. It's history is proof of what I'm saying and cannot be denied by anyone.

Irish Shipping was an easy one to dispose of as it had no real relavence to joe public hence it wouldn't hamper TDs come election time.

Infini

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why would the two other companies go on strike? Sympathy strikes are illegal.

The pensions is one issue linking all 3 that would force the other 2 out. Any spillover from a potential BE failure could trigger it expecially if for example stories go round that BE was allowed to fail in order to butcher wages and pensions or bring in cheap labour.

Infini

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'm convinced that ultimately the state won't let BE go to the wall. I don't agree with that route, but a few years ago we had a similar situation in IE and Varadkar came to the rescue. The CIE group is a basket case and should be done away with through reform after reform after reform. From management, staff, unions and successive Governments, its still rotten to the core. A mess that needs serious fixing. A mess created by all involved and no accountability from any of them. Its a no win situation. It's history is proof of what I'm saying and cannot be denied by anyone.

IR is still a mess and nowadays theres a severe shortage of staff and unmanned stations all over the place. Leo didnt exacly rescue anything the funding was butchered and it the extra funding was only given because in the event of any administration the gov wouldve been hit with a far larger bill had they not. The damage is still there the report a while back pointed out theres debt there as a result of the gov not paying its fair share for example.

XPS_Zero

There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing.

But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b

All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made.

First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first.

• FT has been there 50 years
• It would be political suicide to get rid of it
• It costs less than 1% of the state budget
• The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only
• It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it)

Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done:

• With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up
• There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be
• There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out
• The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at

Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real.

Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns


Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made

Everyone defending their own pet area needs to admit changes have to be made in every category to clean up CIE and if they don't they can't complain when the Govt turns around and decides it's time to run the DART like Luas (private company runs it, state owns the infrastructure), and does a London style bus plan with Dublin Bus and Expressway



Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and do competition with expressway

Grandeeod

XPS_Zero wrote: »

There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing.

But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b

All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made.

First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first.

• FT has been there 50 years
• It would be political suicide to get rid of it
• It costs less than 1% of the state budget
• The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only
• It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it)

Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done:

• With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up
• There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be
• There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out
• The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at

Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real.

Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns


Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made




Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and privatize expressway

Lots of us agree, but just wait for the onslaught your post will bring. Its coming.

CIE = Failed brand. We live in a brand happy world.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing.

But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b

All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made.

First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first.

FT has been there 50 years
It would be political suicide to get rid of it
It costs less than 1% of the state budget
The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only
It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it)

Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done:

With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up
There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be
There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out
The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at

Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real.

Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns


Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made

Everyone defending their own pet area needs to admit changes have to be made in every category to clean up CIE and if they don't they can't complain when the Govt turns around and decides it's time to run the DART like Luas (private company runs it, state owns the infrastructure), and does a London style bus plan with Dublin Bus and Expressway



Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and do competition with expressway

they're is all ready competition with expressway. on some if not most routes in part or full.
unless the government are going to pony up the money it's very unlikely we will see a full london bus model. we are getting the basic tendering, the NTA are currently working on it. the question is will government pony up the money for that long term, as they're will be no cutting of subsidies when times get tough as the privates won't tolerate it and rightly so.
i'm in full agreement with you on the free travel.
in relation to overtime, if people are working outside their contracted hours then it is reasonable to expect to be paid for it. i certainly would not work for nothing outside my contracted hours, you want my time you have to pay for it. i suspect that even for bus eireann overtime is likely cheeper then employing extra staff?

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

i suspect that even for bus eireann overtime is likely cheeper then employing extra staff?

To a point. Need someone to shift buses around the depot for an hour every so often yes. The majority of the staff expecting OT as part of their pay packet probably not

Seanachai

XPS_Zero wrote: »

There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing.

But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b

All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made.

First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first.

• FT has been there 50 years
• It would be political suicide to get rid of it
• It costs less than 1% of the state budget
• The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only
• It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it)

Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done:

• With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up
• There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be
• There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out
• The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at

Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real.

Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns


Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made

Everyone defending their own pet area needs to admit changes have to be made in every category to clean up CIE and if they don't they can't complain when the Govt turns around and decides it's time to run the DART like Luas (private company runs it, state owns the infrastructure), and does a London style bus plan with Dublin Bus and Expressway



Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and do competition with expressway

I listened to a disgruntled driver having an epic rant about the management on a journey one Sunday night. He referred to them as being clueless about the practical workings of the service and that any feedback from the drivers seemed to fall on deaf ears a lot of the time.

oppenheimer1

Infini2 wrote: »

IR is still a mess and nowadays theres a severe shortage of staff and unmanned stations all over the place. Leo didnt exacly rescue anything the funding was butchered and it the extra funding was only given because in the event of any administration the gov wouldve been hit with a far larger bill had they not. The damage is still there the report a while back pointed out theres debt there as a result of the gov not paying its fair share for example.

IR are not short staffed. What they have are staff that are inflexible and won't take on the new roles that the company needs them to do.

Union mantra of "not in my job description". Go into any operation and you'll see plenty sitting around doing nothing .

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

IR are not short staffed. What they have are staff that are inflexible and won't take on the new roles that the company needs them to do.

incorrect. a lie with no basis in reality i'm afraid. staff have taken on whatever has been put into the job description via negotiations.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Union mantra of "not in my job description". Go into any operation and you'll see plenty sitting around doing nothing .

no you won't. if something isn't in the job description it won't be done. if it is put into the job description then it will be done, otherwise disciplinary action will take place.

Infini

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

IR are not short staffed. What they have are staff that are inflexible and won't take on the new roles that the company needs them to do.

Union mantra of "not in my job description". Go into any operation and you'll see plenty sitting around doing nothing .

Sorry to bust the bubble but I can definately call BS on this as far as the ground staffing goes. Staffing levels dropped big time in the last 5 years and have not been replaced. Unmanned stations are a testament to that.

As for inflexible staff I can tell you that its not that staff are inflexible but there's certainly staff there doing the work of a much higher grade over the last few years and management refusing to appoint them to the grade even though they have been doing the job for more than long enough that they should be appointed to the job. There's also places where overtime is going very regularly in order to cover positions that currently lack staff.

bigredone

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/bus-feda-owner-rejects-bus-éireann-s-accusations-1.2949493

On the FTP

“We have an agreement with the Department of Social Protection which means they cover 70 per cent of the cost”

Bus Feda charges €30 for a Donegal-Galway return.

So in a nut shell. BE gets €20 a year per FTP, while this private bus operator gets €21 for one return ticket FTP user.

Sounds like BE is seriously underfunded for the FTP

devnull

bigredone wrote: »

So in a nut shell. BE gets €20 a year per FTP, while this private bus operator gets €21 for one return ticket FTP user.

Sounds like BE is seriously underfunded for the FTP

Let me get this right, BE are getting paid €20 for every free travel pass holder, despite the fact a lot of those holders would probably never even use Bus Eireann?

bigredone

devnull wrote: »

Let me get this right, BE are getting paid €20 for every free travel pass holder, despite the fact a lot of those holders would probably never even use Bus Eireann?

yes, but dont fret, those who do use it more than make up for those who dont.

n97 mini

devnull wrote: »

Let me get this right, BE are getting paid €20 for every free travel pass holder, despite the fact a lot of those holders would probably never even use Bus Eireann?

Does the same apply to Feda, as they'd see even less FTP holders?

devnull

n97 mini wrote: »

Does the same apply to Feda, as they'd see even less FTP holders?

Feda are paid per passenger who uses the service.

Dyr

Joe taxpayer pays a hefty price for a bus service and he deserves one. He sure wasn't getting value when bus eireann had the run of the place. No surprise that they couldn't handle competition

Let them go to the wall, we can do better

Infini

The whole situation is basically gonna come to a head at some point. This isn't simply a regular dispute if it goes to the wall the other 2 companies will come out not simply because of "sympathy" as such but because they'll be feeling under threat not to mention they'll be seriously concerned about how the damage from one company going under will spill over into their companies like the pension scheme for example or if the government's thumb up their arse approach would be used to undermine them too.

If I'm not mistaken BE staff are on older type contracts where the basic pay is rather modest and most work overtime and have time in a half and such on weekends which bring up their pay to a much better level. The OT as well is usually like in most companies because they need the staff to cover positions due to lack of relief. Saying your banning OT is all well and good but it a blunt weapon because it can lower staff morale and make things harder but also can impact the company too as gaps are left wide open and you end up with missing services etc.

In a sense I've a little sympathy for the BE CEO atm hes only acting CEO but he's confronting this and his predecessor sounds like he walked off into the sunset on a golden handshake and dumped all the problems from his watch on the new guys head. That being said whats ultimately needed is a wholescale reevaluation of the entire operation. Unions wont necessarily say no under any circumstances it has been said they'll come to the table if there's no preconditions but the way it's been delivered so far its only gonna provoke things further too. If the companies in such a bad position how did things get so bad in the first place? how long as this being going on? Why are things only now coming out about how bad things really are? Wasn't expressway only a few years ago the core focus of the buisness so how's it losing money all of a sudden?

AS for the FT scheme I've never been against the oldies having the free bus pass or those that are severely disabled, I only have issues with how junkies can have them and end up intimidating other travelers with their horseshyte and with its implementation and how the dept have it set up.

Every FTP user should have their own pass and ONLY for themselves and noone else. Companion and Spouse passes should be removed with the spouse having their own pass for themselves and companions should be discontinued or given their own short term 1yr pass if they qualify. Current system is a still somewhat of a mess atm. As for the payment the dept should pay the full cost for local journey's and the majority of the cost for long journeys with the user only paying a modest 1/4 fare for this. The old passes should be just declared invalid and only those with working passes allowed travel as well. (If it doesnt work its not valid simple as its a nightmare otherwise as if the cards are dead they cant be checked if theyre just broken or deliberately disabled because they were blocked for x reason. It would also have to apply to pensioners because the cards could have been blocked by the dept for abuse of the card as well.)

Bambi wrote: »

Joe taxpayer pays a hefty price for a bus service and he deserves one. He sure wasn't getting value when bus eireann had the run of the place. No surprise that they couldn't handle competition

Let them go to the wall, we can do better

The grass isnt greener on the other side you know too easy to say let it go to the wall we deserve better.... then end up with a worse off craptactular replacement. Hell if it goes to the wall what happens then while its out of buisness? Could have nothing at all for a huge chunk of the country for god knows how long, "joe taxpayer" as you say gets hit with the FULL bill because staff have to be paid off, redundancies, pensions, legal costs etc etc and lets not forget you could have staff in IR and BE out on strike over this as well because while they have yet to strike as the same time as one of their sister companies in recent years you can be damn well sure they're not gonna sit on the sidelines and wait till they're targeted by the vultures as well.

The damage of BE actually going to the wall would be far more significant, messier and more dangerous because it would have far more untold consequences and collateral damage involved.

Things need to be fixed, questions need to be asked, improvements made but the last thing thing that needs to be done is have some fool throw a proverbial petrol can on top of a smoldering tinderkeg and and acting all innocent when it blows up on them.

end of the road

Bambi wrote: »

Joe taxpayer pays a hefty price for a bus service and he deserves one. He sure wasn't getting value when bus eireann had the run of the place. No surprise that they couldn't handle competition

bus eireann have always had huge competition. competition for them isn't anything new.

Bambi wrote: »

Let them go to the wall, we can do better

not let them go to the wall, this tax payer doesn't wish ireland to potentially turn into another britain.

salonfire

end of the road wrote: »

not let them go to the wall, this tax payer doesn't wish ireland to potentially turn into another britain.

Your taxes have nothing to do with the problems Bus Eireann are having.

The losses stem from Expressway because they are unable to compete with more efficient private sector who are flying along. Did I hear numbers are up 50%/60% on some routes.

Expressway is not given any subvention.

Paying drivers over the odds is a major part of their problems.

Grandeeod

salonfire wrote: »

Paying drivers over the odds is a major part of their problems.

But this legacy doesn't wash with some here and never will.

Jamie2k9

Can I just say it's amazing how well behaved the unions are been surrounding this dispute. They were not quiet easy going at IE a few years ago. Shows what competition can do!
______

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...ions-1.2949493

On the FTP

“We have an agreement with the Department of Social Protection which means they cover 70 per cent of the cost”

Bus Feda charges €30 for a Donegal-Galway return.

So in a nut shell. BE gets €20 a year per FTP, while this private bus operator gets €21 for one return ticket FTP user.

Sounds like BE is seriously underfunded for the FTP

Don't over analysis 30 and 70% of it, It's far from reality in terms of how payments are distributed.

____

Nobody is asking BE to run loss making routes so how this has spilled over into such a big row is down to unions. If a commercial route is loss making the you either withdraw it or look at how to improve it. If there are some job losses so be it, bus drivers will find other employment easily.

Up until a few years ago BE did very little for people but since private operators entered the market they have forced them to improve and they have to an extent but they are still poor in comparison.

end of the road

salonfire wrote: »

Your taxes have nothing to do with the problems Bus Eireann are having.

i never said it was.

salonfire wrote: »

The losses stem from Expressway because they are unable to compete with more efficient private sector who are flying along. Did I hear numbers are up 50%/60% on some routes.

i'm well aware of where the losses stem from, thanks.
i'm sure being able to pick routes will make those private operators more efficient seeing as they don't have to serve all and sundry if they do not wish to. does bus eireann expressway dispite being a commercial service really have that freedom? wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, tbh.

salonfire wrote: »

Expressway is not given any subvention.

i'm well aware of that, thanks. i've said it enough on this board over the years. no point in telling me things i know, you are just wasting typing time.

salonfire wrote: »

Paying drivers over the odds is a major part of their problems.

no it isn't because they don't pay drivers over the odds. they pay them at the higher end of the market rate sure, but not over the odds.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If a commercial route is loss making the you either withdraw it or look at how to improve it.

i agree. however, does bus eireann politically have the freedom to actually withdraw expressway routes dispite being commercial routes if they need to do so?

Jamie2k9

i agree. however, does bus eireann politically have the freedom to actually withdraw expressway routes dispite being commercial routes if they need to do so?

Commercial routes yes, it would take good management to carry it out.

It's just unions trying to drag political members into the row to safe grad jobs. Ironery is SIPTU and others don't really give a toss if private companies (across the board) close all they do is express disappointment and get best deal possible for staff.

Clearly unions know how serious this is hence no strike action, sooner or lather they will need to corporate or agree to jobs going.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

no it isn't because they don't pay drivers over the odds. they pay them at the higher end of the market rate sure, but not over the odds

Can you back that up with facts? Do you even know the base salary scale in BE?