Bust Éireann

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

Oh, dear. Hit a nerve there haven't I. Mustn't criticise Aircoach.

Criticise them all you like, people are allowed opinions after all.

Personally I find Aircoach are far from a perfect operator, generally their upkeep of the website is poor and they lack attention to detail in some areas, their app is poorly maintained the same with their stop information and they took far too long to resolve the issues with the Greystones timetable.

But if you want to believe that I am blinkered that is your choice, I am simply an observer of Irish Transport and have never worked or have any connection to any of the companies, what about you, do you have any connection to the industry? Just think it might be fair if you state it now so people can bear that in mind when reading your posts.

7 (or 8) returns per day (Aircoach dropped the 6am departures at some point) versus 6 (or 7 until BE stopped the one a day via Thurles)

An interesting way that you have expressed the service patterns, to try and imply that there was some doubt about who was running how many services per day and in addition that at one point there was 7 vs 7 services when that never was the case. Also interesting that you are happy to compare one timetable from one operator from one year, with a timetable of another operator from another year. Did you not compare two operators from the same year because it might weaken your case?

When BE ran the Thurles service, which took a different route and took much longer so it's hardly comparable to the other services but okay, Aircoach were running eight services a day so they were still running more, and for a while were also running eight versus six, if you look through Archive.org (a great resource for when people dispute things like that) you will see that.

Then you are right that Aircoach dropped the 6am service but this was a fair while after the Thurles Service was dropped. Also before you say there were change of bus options for a while in that time, I don't call that a route, what I call a route is a single bus that does a journey end to end else you could argue there were many ways of reaching Dublin to Cork if you took multiple vehicles.

I also assume you forgot about the extra request stops on the Bus Eireann timetable which required the 8 to take a longer way around to service them and added extra journey time by picking passengers up and dropping them off there or driving past them anyway just in case to see someone was there?

Both were 2 hourly through the day.

Aircoach ran the 6am service right from when the service was started in 2004 until 10th October 2009.

Aircoach didn't run directly to the Airport for a long time, it was just City-City with connections. Airport traffic was not a big load factor before the express services started in 2012 as the earliest flight you could connect to was around 1pm and the last arrival 5.30ish, really wouldn't want to miss the last bus to Cork. They missed the majority of flights and bothh Airport peaks.

They added the Airport in October 2009 which was over two and a half years before the Express Service started and of course at the start traffic to the airport was low as any service that is starting up was, but it built up over time.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100204020502/http://www.aircoach.ie/table.routes.cork.php

Aircoach were quicker on paper, in reality both had similar running times and similar stopping patterns. BE served Cahir which Aircoach never did.

Ahh, I was on both services and I can tell you that the Aircoach service often made time and the Bus Eireann came in sometimes five minutes early if it did the whole route, but often got stuck in Traffic around Busaras, something that Aircoach did not have to deal with.

Over the last few pages you started asking me to come up with facts that I can prove, when can prove them and show you some documented proof that the journey was quicker on Aircoach you're telling me we should call their website lies and instead believe you because you said it's true? You're changing the rules by the page my friend,

First you will only take documented proof from me and claiming I wasn't providing it for my claims and you aren't just going to take my word for something without proof, now you are saying that documented proof doesn't count since you know better and you can make such claims without proof, because you know, what you say is trie. The very same thing you fired down me for doing. You made me smile a lot today!

I'm struggling to keep up with what rules you will set next, maybe you will change them again on Saturday and back the day after that. See, that is another sign of someone who is struggling to win an argument, they set rules, when someone proves them wrong using their own rules, they flip-flap and change the rules again. Because I can admit when someone shows me proof to the contrary and I get something wrong I admitted I was wrong about the Galway License having not been issued, that I did not know about it and said so.

BE had an advertised break in Urlingford Aircoach didn't but stopped there anyway for a toilet break even though they didn't pick-up there.

Aircoach picked up at Urlingford from November 2011 until the stopping services were withdrawn a month or two after the express service was brought in.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120210142226/http://aircoach.ie/table.routes.cork.php

Timing was more dependent on traffic and the driver on both operators from my experience, Cork in 3h50 with the bloody 5 mile tail back into Abbeyleix on Sunday afternoons was an absolute fantasy whereas I would comfortably beat the BE 4h25 by 20-30 minutes even with a leisurely lunch/dinner break in Josephines on the 14.00, 16.00, 18.00 Cork-Dublin runs. But if you want to score some imaginary points based on the timetable then be my guest.

Buses take longer when the roads are busy and shorter times when the roads are quiet. Who'd have thought it. Excuse me why I go and lay down from the shock of this revelation because it is the shock of the century and will surely send fears into bus schedule planners up and down the country.

Don't tell me your solution to this? We have a different journey time, for every bus in the timetable and for every day of the week? That is what you appear to be complaining about is not happening. Have you pitched your idea to any bus company? Maybe you could sell it and make millions if it's such a breakthrough.

In any case, you claim that 3hr 50 minutes is fantasy, but I seem to remember a certain Bus Eireann service called X8 when it was introduced felt it could do a similar route with only two less stops in 20 minutes less? What do you think about the accuracy of that timetable? Do you think it was more or less possible than the 3hr 50 min journey time you claim is inaccurate? Also how does the current 3hr 45 min service keep to it's timetable, particuarly on a Sunday afternoon with heavy traffic?

[quote[the 1 am from Cork was only a few months before the express services started AFAIR, not really relevant to the point I was making which you missed entirely.[/quote[

When it was introduced is neither here nor there. You claimed that the only thing that drove improvements on the route is that GoBus came on the scene, What I'm proving to you is that there was innovation on the route before that even happened. You can say it's not relevant to the point that you are making all you want, but deep down you know you made that point so best accept that on this occasion you have been proven wrong. If you don't call offering an overnight service innovation, I don't know what is.

I note that you also didn't comment on my point about Wifi, probably because you hoped I wouldn't bring it back up and it would quietly die away as it's a fact you cannot do anything to refute. I forgot to mention the fact Aircoach were the first ones to operate online booking on the route as well and e-ticketing that allowed you to be assured of a seat on a particular service, but we can add that to the list now as well.

It was posted on the internet somewhere, might have been true, might not.

That's great. I can say that I saw something posted on the internet that said anything as well, it doesn't have to make it true does it? Considering how high on your horse you were a few days ago into requiring proof, the fact that you are now resorting to rumours you read elsewhere despite previously attacking people for doing the same suggests you are fast running out of options and are getting increasingly desperate.

Still a petty and ridiculous nonsense to complain about a bus company running extras to ensure any passenger who turned up without booking could get on the departure they wanted. I assume AC were busy on the weekends too, I didn't really see much of them on those departures but would be surprised if they hadn't needed to run extras at some points too.

Because I'm sure, if the boot was on the other foot and Bus Eireann felt that Aircoach were not operating auxillary departures in the correct way according to the licensing rules, they would just stand by and say absolutely nothing because it wouldn't bother them int he slightest? Come on, all operators will grass each other up if they see one another doing something they feel may be in breach of their license.

I'm unsure of what point you are trying to make here about preventing from passengers from getting on the departure of their choice. A passenger decided to go on a bus based on the timetable, which is published and part of a license, this is the only services that an operator is permitted to run UNLESS the main service bus is full and an extra is required. That in theory was how it was supposed to work although it didn't seem to be enforced.

I can only think that if any Aircoach complaint did come in it was following the introduction of their non stop service because I would say then they would have been able to argue that the competition running a non stop service without a license and they could have reasonably argued that it was effecting their business. The rules were always there, but I'm not convinced they were being enforced before then on either operator.

Oh yes, my point which you seem to want to disprove for some inexplicable reason was that both operators were conservative on the route for a long time, no overnights, frequency improvements or massive expansions until the express services in 2012.

If you want to talk in degrees of being conservative, I don't agree that BE and AC were as conservative as each other. BE were far more conservative than Aircoach were. If you want to call Aircoach conservative fair enough, but you'd have to call BE ultra conservative.

I'm not saying Aircoach did a lot but to say they were conservative is pushing it too far, ground breaking, no (that came with the Express service) but not conservative either. Wifi, online bookings for a particular service with being assured a seat, operating 25% more services for several years, extending their route to the airport, running an overnight service for several months before the non stops came in is a lot more than Bus Eireann who pretty much just removed a couple of stops and nothing else unless it was in reply to something Aircoach did.

To even imply that both operators were conservative and somehow claim that one was no better than the other for driving change and innovation couldn't be further from the truth.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

So what, result is the same; Paying passengers have gone to competitors, FTP still on BE, BE not getting properly paid for taking them. Is there any part of that you are disagreeing with?

You seemed to imply the privates were choosing not to take them. They were not choosing not to take them, they are not able to join the scheme.This is not some kind of discrimination against BE, it just happens that services established after a certain time cannot join. If BE started a brand new route on the Expressway network they would not be able to take passes either.

This is why when the Aircoach Non stop services started alongside the stopping you had the oddity that a person with a DSP pass could travel on the stopping service from Dublin to Cork for free but would have to pay for the non stop service, since the stopping service was tied to a much earlier license where they could take the pass and the non stop one was not.

And you have shown no proof that they have.

In this country we base our legal and justice system on the basis that someone is innocent until they are proven guilty and that if someone is making an accusation this has to be proven.

You appear to believe that in this society you are guilty until you are proven innocent, which is not the case, but there are countries in this world where you may be able to move to if you desire that kind of system.

There are fanboys on boards for many strange things but you appear to be in thrall to a government quango. You really like the NTA, therefore in your eyes they can do no wrong, it is as simple as that.

Actually I think the NTA have let themselves go a bit the last 12-18 months and I'm a little disappointed by what has happened in that time-frame. I don't think they are doing a bad job, I just think they were doing a better job before it. One thing we will agree on though there are certainly fanboys on boards.ie and this forum, some of them even appear to be such fanboys that they cannot help themselves but to operate many different personas over the course of time. Personally one account was always enough for me (and before you accuse me, no I'm not saying you have multiple accounts!)

There really is no point discussing this further with you as you are unable to see past your own prejudices to accept even a simple logical premise, not believing something for which there is absolutely no proof.

Innocent until proven guilty my friend, I know you might have a hard time believing it, but it isn't guilty until proven innocent as you keep to seem thinking it is.

Point out the passage in the 1932 act that required sitting on licence applications for 4 years, showing clear bias towards different applicants and taking bribes?

Yeah, I can just see that in the 1932 act they would write in such an informal style "We shall sit on applications as long as we see fit to annoy state companies and show clear bias and we will certainly take bribes along the way." I know things were different in 1932, but still taking bribes? That's a pretty serious allegation, you should certainly back that up.

This is ridiculous drivel, the change in regs means that nothing after the change should be questioned even though it is proven that things were not being done properly before? Either you are incredibly naive or you are so blinded by your prejudices you are unable to grasp a simple concept of not trusting government departments, quangos and vested interests.

So you think that magically one day the powers that be decided they were going to suddenly start turning around licenses within a few days rather than a few years, because that is what the decided to do, and the fact that a new transport act was published at the same time and a new authority was also in the process of being set-up just was a complete co-incidence and someone just stated. "Ahh, you know what, I've had enough of playing Poker online, going out for a fag and lazing about the office doing nothing, I might actually do some work?"

I don't believe I ever said that it was only BE that may have been unfairly treated. That is your bias projecting a side onto me that you are determined to argue against no matter what.

You only mentioned BE, if you meant all operators you would have said that rather than mentioning one operator by name. Of course you are going to claim otherwise now. If you mean all operators say all operators, you didn't you just mentioned BE. Unfortunately I cannot read your mind, I can only read what you post therefor I take it at face value, you may want to be more clearer in your explanation next time, but the trouble with being crystal clear and detailed about something is there is far less opportunity to spin

No, we don't. It hasn't stopped you drawing definite conlusions based on nothing but your innate trust in a government quango. The mind boggles, it really does.

I believe in our justice and legal system and I think it's grossly unfair to accuse a party of corruption unless you have proof of it. I could say things about person x and their private life and they are hiding something because I don't have trust in them because someone linked to them did something similar in the past though. I don't though, because of the fact is I have no proof.

Do I have to list all the government departments and agencies that have been implicated in shady dealings and massive in-competencies.

Or can we take it as said that the idea of implicitly trusting ANY of these bodies (CIE very much included) without proof and oversight is just about the most stupid thing anyone could do.

So based on the same principles then I should pretty much tar the whole public sector with the same brush, because after all if one member of the public sector working for one of the many quangos within it did something bad, then what is to say that someone else in another branch did not? After all, with all the people who have been involved with things over the years, how can we trust any of them?

The way you go on anyone not informed would think the NTA have no connection wit DoT. They are an agency ran under the DoT, repoting directly to the DoT, with a board appointed by the head of the DoT, whose sole function is to run services on behalf of the DoT. .

Does that mean we can apply the same rules to the entire CIE group that if one company does something wrong then we are to assume that they are all connected and are all probably doing the same thing? Probably even a better argument for that since they are all working together at the same time rather than across many different years.

Also you could use your analogy for any government. You could link many departments now and their staff that were parts of other departments in the past, to the staff that were in place 10/20 years ago, because after all, once upon a time in history they were all linked together and as such you are telling me this is a valid stick to beat the new department with?

bigredone

It will get bailed out by the government.
Bus Éireann could loose €5 million annually over the coming years if no action is taken to address the issues.
According to the irishtimes today , 500 jobs could be lost, just assume they are all single.
Single dole is €188 a week, x52x500= €4,888,000.
How many of the drivers are married? Thats even more dole money.
Medical card will be given to them if on the dole, this is more money for the government to shell out.
How many will be on ret allowance if on the dole? More money from the government.
If BE is broke and has to let the drivers go, you have redundancy payments, you know it will be the government stepping in to pay this.
Cheaper for the government to bail it out and start on a proper plan to get the company back on it feet.

bigredone

devnull wrote: »

I just want to make one thing clear. In this society someone or a body are innocent until they are proven guilty.

Except BE,IE and DB

devnull wrote: »

If someone is making an allegation they need to back that up.

It does not stop you from posting opinion as fact.

The Parish priest

How likely is it that they will try to close rural services ? I would have thought that would be almost impossible politically ?

devnull

The Parish priest wrote: »

How likely is it that they will try to close rural services ? I would have thought that would be almost impossible politically ?

Expressway does not cover rural services in almost all cases.

Basically.
- If your bus says bus Eireann on the side it's not effected by this.
- If it says expressway it might

devnull

bigredone wrote: »

So do you work for the NTA or The DoT?
Why dont you declare who you work for?

I just told you I do not work in the industry. I never have and I doubt that will change. You don't have to believe me but it's true.

monument

One of bigredone's posts have been deleted and s/he is banned for another 24 hours for personal attacks straight after getting banned for focusing on posters and not posts / points made -- s/he is at a strong risk of a permanent ban if they contuine this.

-- moderator

bigredone wrote: »

It does not stop you from posting opinion as fact.

Stop backseat moderating. Unlike what you think with one of your previous posts, no user here has to preface opinion with "in my opinion" and users not allowed to tell other users how to post.

-- moderator

amcalester

bigredone wrote: »

It will get bailed out by the government.
Bus Éireann could loose €5 million annually over the coming years if no action is taken to address the issues.
According to the irishtimes today , 500 jobs could be lost, just assume they are all single.
Single dole is €188 a week, x52x500= €4,888,000.
How many of the drivers are married? Thats even more dole money.
Medical card will be given to them if on the dole, this is more money for the government to shell out.
How many will be on ret allowance if on the dole? More money from the government.
If BE is broke and has to let the drivers go, you have redundancy payments, you know it will be the government stepping in to pay this.
Cheaper for the government to bail it out and start on a proper plan to get the company back on it feet.

You're ignoring the cost to BE of employing these staff.

joeysoap

amcalester wrote: »

You're ignoring the cost to BE of employing these staff.

Are their wages not included in the €5m projected losses? By employing them they generate some revenue on the expressway services, maybe not enough but still perhaps less costly to the taxpayer than redundancy.

howiya

joeysoap wrote: »

Are their wages not included in the €5m projected losses? By employing them they generate some revenue on the expressway services, maybe not enough but still perhaps less costly to the taxpayer than redundancy.

Is it not illegal state aid though?

How long do you envisage any former employees staying on social welfare?

joeysoap

howiya wrote: »

Is it not illegal state aid though?

How long do you envisage any former employees staying on social welfare?

A) probably, but an increased subvention and merge expressway back into BE?

9 months JB, unlimited JA (means tested- though that doesn't prevent tens of thousands from staying on permanently to all intents and purposes) And over 62's only have to sign on once a year. Possible upside could be extra employment with private companies taking on some ex BE employees.

Will the private companies who compete now be as competitive when and if Expressway ceased? My view, yes at the start anyway and maybe for 3 /4 years but after that who knows.

My daughter when she was in college in Dublin used BE (no choice) for a year, said busses were often dirty, food and food wrappers often left on seats - chips, pizza etc- and often as not a smelly bus. When the private operator opened on the route during her college years, he banned such foodstuffs on board -and still does,including drinks- motorway all the way, so it was a no brainier. But Expressway have definitely upped their game, clean and fairly on time busses, I don't have an answer to how they can win customers back.

howiya

joeysoap wrote: »

A) probably, but an increased subvention and merge expressway back into BE?

9 months JB, unlimited JA (means tested- though that doesn't prevent tens of thousands from staying on permanently to all intents and purposes) And over 62's only have to sign on once a year. Possible upside could be extra employment with private companies taking on some ex BE employees.

Will the private companies who compete now be as competitive when and if Expressway ceased? My view, yes at the start anyway and maybe for 3 /4 years but after that who knows.

My daughter when she was in college in Dublin used BE (no choice) for a year, said busses were often dirty, food and food wrappers often left on seats - chips, pizza etc- and often as not a smelly bus. When the private operator opened on the route during her college years, he banned such foodstuffs on board -and still does,including drinks- motorway all the way, so it was a no brainier. But Expressway have definitely upped their game, clean and fairly on time busses, I don't have an answer to how they can win customers back.

I'm not an expert on what constitutes state aid and what doesn't but I imagine because the Expressway routes are on a commercial footing then it would be illegal to start subsidising them.

If that is the case then BE would have to cut the routes. The NTA would then have to tender for replacement PSO routes. BE may or may not win the tender to run the new PSO routes.

So it's all a bit of a mess

Infini

Honestly the whole situation is a complete mess. The workers aren't the one that caused this whole mess its equally shared between the government, NTA and management. As for this whole talk of BE going bankrupt it wont happen. Its a semi-state first off and if it DID go to the wall its the GOVERNMENT who will have to bail it out entirely as the company is wholly owned by the state. The second thing is BE is a public interest regardless of the problems the reason its there in the first place is to give those expecially in the country a way of getting around.

As for the overtime bill if its like over in IR the primary driver of it is LACK of staff to cover rosters which means drivers are giving up their own free time for more money. Its easy to say they're cutting OT but it bites em back when they find they've noone to cover gaps in the roster or they cant run services cos noones there to drive.

If anything what's needed to be asked is HOW this situation was allowed to develop in the first place. Have the management been asleep at the wheel? Have the NTA been too frivolous giving away the contracts and allowing private operators to undercut and undermine BE? Have the goverment been avoiding the issues and letting things fester? Has the mismanagement of the FTP scheme been a factor?

As things go worst comes to worse then BE will have to be bailed out they wouldn't be able to get around it as it would have knock on effects on the other 2 remaining companies.

mjv2ydratu679c

Infini2 wrote: »

Honestly the whole situation is a complete mess. The workers aren't the one that caused this whole mess its equally shared between the government, NTA and management. As for this whole talk of BE going bankrupt it wont happen. Its a semi-state first off and if it DID go to the wall its the GOVERNMENT who will have to bail it out entirely as the company is wholly owned by the state. The second thing is BE is a public interest regardless of the problems the reason its there in the first place is to give those expecially in the country a way of getting around.

As for the overtime bill if its like over in IR the primary driver of it is LACK of staff to cover rosters which means drivers are giving up their own free time for more money. Its easy to say they're cutting OT but it bites em back when they find they've noone to cover gaps in the roster or they cant run services cos noones there to drive.

If anything what's needed to be asked is HOW this situation was allowed to develop in the first place. Have the management been asleep at the wheel? Have the NTA been too frivolous giving away the contracts and allowing private operators to undercut and undermine BE? Have the goverment been avoiding the issues and letting things fester? Has the mismanagement of the FTP scheme been a factor?

As things go worst comes to worse then BE will have to be bailed out they wouldn't be able to get around it as it would have knock on effects on the other 2 remaining companies.

the unions part also needs to be examined.

Infini

Nikolas Mushy Ballroom wrote: »

the unions part also needs to be examined.

Unions fight for their members interests like theyre supposed to. That's why they exist in the first place. They dont run the company they're not management.

L1011

bigredone wrote: »

I
Cheaper for the government to bail it out and start on a proper plan to get the company back on it feet.

State aid rules make it impossible for them to bail out the commercial arm, which is where the problems are.

salonfire

Infini2 wrote: »

Unions fight for their members interests like theyre supposed to. That's why they exist in the first place. They dont run the company they're not management.

So why are the unions shouting the odds on company expenses such as overtime and services?

Surely that's for management?

mjv2ydratu679c

Infini2 wrote: »

Unions fight for their members interests like theyre supposed to. That's why they exist in the first place. They dont run the company they're not management.

They also drive the cost base of the company by the deals they negotiate for their members.

Bass Reeves

Infini2 wrote: »

Nikolas Mushy Ballroom wrote: »

the unions part also needs to be examined.

Unions fight for their members interests like theyre supposed to. That's why they exist in the first place. They dont run the company they're not management.

In general unions in the transport sector undermine he ability to run these companies. There is an economic fact that any direct state aid to BE for provision of expressway routes would contravene state aid. Like Aer Lingus it may get away with it once but that will be it. It is unlikely that they will even manage that.

In the view of some here some jobs are more equal than others. George Orwell animal farm again. On the news this evening it was interesting to hear one of the things that expressway management was looking for drivers that were scheduled to work might have to work elsewhere if there scheduled work was changed. Imagine that. I imagine that unions are totally against this. The real issue is often inflexibility of workforce. PO often have a better grasp of targeting workers. They generally target older workers that are willing to be paid for hours worked. So PO have found a new labour model. Semi retired workers willing to work 6-7 hours days 3-4 days a week.

Unions are finding it hard to crack this model. Like Ryanair in some cases drivers clean buses, refueling them etc. Therefore these operators need less ancillary workers. Management is often not the complete problem except that often too many middle management on too high wages may be an issue. However look at earlier this year the shenigans at the DART over new services. Unions use of H&S often to stymie new routes and services and to look for better pay and conditions are backfiring where competition is allowed.

BowWow

Had to travel twice last week from Enniscorthy to Dublin Airport.

Day 1 - Wexford Bus.
Arrived Gorey a few minutes early - left stop at correct time.
Bus clean, wi-fi etc.
Paid by Leap card - €19.
Made several stops along the way.
Dublin traffic light.
Arrived Airport 2 mins early.

Day 2 - Bus Eireann.
Arrived Gorey on time - left stop at correct time.
Bus clean, wi-fi etc.
Had to pay by cash €23.10 - yet there was a Leap Card machine by driver, asked to pay by Leap, told "I don't take them", sounded like it was his personal decision.
Made several stops along the way (inc. Arklow).
Dublin traffic non existent - bus flew through city...
Arrived Airport 10 mins late.

There was absolutely no way BE would have made the airport at the correct time. The issue here was Arklow. WB pulled off at a motorway junction, stopped and then rejoined the motorway. BE drove through the town of Arklow, stopped a few times, couldn't turn the corner at the bridge, heavy traffic etc.

Which service will I use in future?

ps. Big use of FTPs on the BE, yet none scanned, how can they have accurate figures of the use of these?

Boaty

Bus Eireann must have a lot of paper pushers, they were informed 2 years ago of an issue with a bus that they have hired to run a route twice a day at peak hours. The issue costs them in turnover the guts of 70k a year.
This is just one route, I imagine similar happens all across the country.

schemingbohemia

How many times was it reported that BE buses were being replaced by hired-in buses and that those buses weren't LEAP enabled so LEAP card holders travelled for free? Is this because some Expressway service buses are treated as virtually "owned" by individual drivers and if they're sick/on holiday that bus doesn't operate?
How does that not lead to additional expense for a broke company and how is it not related to union/worker behaviour?

Grandeeod

Its now a crime scene and everyone else is to blame.:rolleyes:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0118/845969-bus-eireann/

Bass Reeves

Grandeeod wrote: »

Its now a crime scene and everyone else is to blame.:rolleyes:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0118/845969-bus-eireann/

I think they need to look at the lads that think they have an alibi

LeinsterDub

Grandeeod wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0118/845969-bus-eireann/

"We're broke! Here have a pay raise!"

BÉ management logic for you

MKH

Sorry, this is going to be a rant. You can quit right here, if you don't want to read an anti-BE rant.

I use Bus Eireann every day and it's hardly surprising the company is in trouble. Let me start by saying that I've used public transport for many years in several countries and Bus Eireann has probably been the worst experience of them all. I am not exaggerating when I say that using Bus Eireann is the lowest point of my day. I will on occasion take a cab just to avoid dealing with Bus Eireann and I would do so every day if that wasn't a bit too pricey.

The reality, however, is that Bus Eireann is a monopolist for public transport across much of the country. It's no coincidence then that the service is terrible. If I hate it and still have to give them money on a regular basis, what incentives do they have to be better?

So let's list what's wrong:

(1) The drivers are somewhere between apathetic and downright rude. There's nothing like a bus stop where people are queuing up to enter the bus, but instead find themselves waiting for the bus driver to finish his smoke - about a minute before scheduled departure. Or people being late for work because there's a bus driver swap and the drivers have to have a chat for a few minutes before the bus continues its journey. From a company point of view the fact many of them will allow people on the bus who haven't paid is probably even more problematic.

(2) The vehicles are dirty and some of them in barely roadworthy condition.Yes, BE have purchased a lot of new buses in recent years, but the truth is that it doesn't take long for these buses to be in a terrible shape if they aren't rigorously maintained and cleaned. I cringe every time I hear a bus driver scrape the undercarriage of the bus along the pavement at stops. And it happens regularly. If a passenger drops a full cup of coffee on the bus and there's coffee flowing freely on the floor of the bus, how long does it take to get that cleaned? With BE, that might be longer than you think. I've taken the first bus of the day and the bus clearly hasn't been cleaned before the start of the new day.

(3) Scheduling, operational planning. It can't be good for a company to drive empty buses around. But BE does it a lot. Whether it is maintaining unprofitable connections or simply not being able to adapt to the operational situation on the fly, BE are very inefficient (and make customers unhappy as a result). Traffic causes bunching and every bus company has to deal with that. However, if three buses arrive within 5 minutes after no bus had arrived for 30 minutes or more, it's probably not the most sensible solution for two of those buses to take off empty and allow one bus to get overloaded to the point where it gets close to or even exceeds the maximum of allowed passengers. Then there's the lack of service on Sundays and bank holidays. It's reasonable to expect a reduction in service frequency, but the complete lack of service before late morning on these days is rather remarkable and affects many of those who are required to work on those days.

While some may spin some kind of efficiency argument there, I strongly suspect that this is a choice made of convenience for staff. Why? Because BE struggle to provide out-of-hours service even where it would be a business necessity. The Cork - Dublin Airport express bus market is pretty significant. It's also a market where BE face private competition and they are blowing BE out of the water. Their first departure in Cork is 6.30 (GoBE) or 8.00 (Expressway) - both of which are too late for the transatlantic flights departing Dublin and many of the European morning connections. Naturally, people want to fly earlier in the day to maximize their holidays. Unsurprisingly, customers flock to the private competition - which isn't even really cheaper. I strongly suspect that BE can't offer those popular 1 am/3 am departures in Cork because their drivers wouldn't have it, just like they aren't having morning rush hour bus service on Sundays.

With regard to Irish Rail, I can only say that the service isn't terrible, but it's also a network which in its complexity is reminiscent of the pioneer days of the railways in other countries. I suspect that it is in part 'less bad' in comparison to BE because it is so limited (which makes ops much easier) and rarely is overcrowded (unlike its oft-criticised counterparts in Britain). Any notion of making rail a key infrastructure element in Ireland outside Dublin clearly has long been given up. So it's the buses we're left with and all of that makes it a pretty dire picture overall.

joeysoap

Drivers allow passengers to take coffee on board expressway busses? A claim waiting to happen. I can only speak off my experience Dundalk/Dublin. Expressway coaches are clean, appear relatively new, and run pretty much on time. The private operator on the route (Matthews) has new and clean coaches, offers more services daily (but no airport services) and definitely won't allow anyone on board with fast food or coffee. Don't think crisps are even allowed.

MKH

joeysoap wrote: »

Drivers allow passengers to take coffee on board expressway busses? A claim waiting to happen. I can only speak off my experience Dundalk/Dublin. Expressway coaches are clean, appear relatively new, and run pretty much on time. The private operator on the route (Matthews) has new and clean coaches, offers more services daily (but no airport services) and definitely won't allow anyone on board with fast food or coffee. Don't think crisps are even allowed.

I am referring to Cork city services and intercity services Cork-Limerick. I can't comment on services in Leinster or Connacht.

Infini

All I can see is this is gonna get nasty. Ross not even reading the report IS rather silly for example hes the guy at the top. As for the way things are going everything needs to be looked at expecially since if BE goes to the wall the other 2 companies will go on strike, I personally would if it did since there would be no telling what kind of damage it could have like in regards to the pensions for example. That being said I dont see a semi state being allowed to go to the wall the taxpayer would be on the hook for far larger an amount if it did and the fallout would be significant both politically and socially.

Unions and staff arent the sole problem simply ranting at them is shortsighed and pointless and if things are as bad as they are the whole thing needs to be looked at and that includes how the management, NTA and government have handled thingss.