Infini2 wrote: » All I can see is this is gonna get nasty. Ross not even reading the report IS rather silly for example hes the guy at the top. As for the way things are going everything needs to be looked at expecially since if BE goes to the wall the other 2 companies will go on strike, I personally would if it did since there would be no telling what kind of damage it could have like in regards to the pensions for example. That being said I dont see a semi state being allowed to go to the wall the taxpayer would be on the hook for far larger an amount if it did and the fallout would be significant both politically and socially. Unions and staff arent the sole problem simply ranting at them is shortsighed and pointless and if things are as bad as they are the whole thing needs to be looked at and that includes how the management, NTA and government have handled thingss.
Bass Reeves wrote: » Irish shipping was left go to the wall when debt was too large to comprehend saving the company. The reality that some cannot understand is that giving rescue aid to a company in the commercial area is not allowed under EU rules. The rest of the group going on strike will only put them companies under pressure.
oppenheimer1 wrote: » Why would the two other companies go on strike? Sympathy strikes are illegal.
Grandeeod wrote: » I'm convinced that ultimately the state won't let BE go to the wall. I don't agree with that route, but a few years ago we had a similar situation in IE and Varadkar came to the rescue. The CIE group is a basket case and should be done away with through reform after reform after reform. From management, staff, unions and successive Governments, its still rotten to the core. A mess that needs serious fixing. A mess created by all involved and no accountability from any of them. Its a no win situation. It's history is proof of what I'm saying and cannot be denied by anyone.
XPS_Zero wrote: » There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing. But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made. First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first.FT has been there 50 years It would be political suicide to get rid of it It costs less than 1% of the state budget The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it) Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done:With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real. Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and privatize expressway
XPS_Zero wrote: » There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing. But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made. First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first. FT has been there 50 years It would be political suicide to get rid of it It costs less than 1% of the state budget The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it) Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done: With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real. Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made Everyone defending their own pet area needs to admit changes have to be made in every category to clean up CIE and if they don't they can't complain when the Govt turns around and decides it's time to run the DART like Luas (private company runs it, state owns the infrastructure), and does a London style bus plan with Dublin Bus and Expressway Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and do competition with expressway
end of the road wrote: » i suspect that even for bus eireann overtime is likely cheeper then employing extra staff?
XPS_Zero wrote: » There is a cohort of people just defending the indefensible at CIE in every company, anyone who knows anything about the internal operations of these companies knows they are creaking with inefficiency and waste and poor management, petrified to change ANYTHING in case unions blow their top and strike. In the private sector in Ireland strikes are a last resort because the unions have to understand the employer does not have a limitless pot of money, and the workers are invested in the company staying profitable and competitive almost as much as they would be were there profit sharing. But in the PS the solution they offer to every financial crises is greater subsidy but all that does is paper over the cracks, you had the infamous question of why IE said they needed 1b to get things back on track then they got it and said they still needed 1b All these debates go in circles and in every area of discussion people dodge hard truths when defending their particular pet turf (Free travel, overtime etc) so because everyone defending their own pet turf refuses to acknowledge any problems with area x they are defending no progress is made. First you have the predictable attack on free travel. Lets deal with that first.FT has been there 50 years It would be political suicide to get rid of it It costs less than 1% of the state budget The money funding it comes from DSP not CIE so eliminating it does not get CIE that 65m or so and the revenue spike from removing it would not, as many assume, be 'every FT journey would now be paid at full rate' as most former FT journeys would not be made, with only essential journeys made instead, so a small revenue increase only It gets seniors and disabled out and about improving their mental and physical health reducing strain on the health service schemes like this have been proven time and again to reduce healthcare spending just like free primary care does in the longer term (which is why were introducing it) Now with all that said, there are clearly reforms that need to be made. The smart cards were a great start but much more needs to be done:With an aging population the funding for it needs to go up There is, despite the DSP paying for it, a DE FACTO CIE subsidy for some of it to cover a gap in DSP funding which is lower than it should be There are parts of it that don't make any sense like the spousal pass, I get that if you wanna encourage people to get out and about it helps to have the spouse with them, but someone not entitled to it in their own right should not have it, there isn't really any justification for that, they themselves are not seniors or disabled so theres no benefit in getting them out The criteria for a companion pass needs to be looked at Again, that said...we know you could SOLVE all of this tomorrow and CIE would still be a basket case, lets get real. Second, you have overtime and premium pay and working practices unions just flat out refuse to look at even as their company drowns Third, you have a management who ..i guess i can't say this outright as it might be considered slander but those of you working there know what i mean about holidays and routes and a pile of presents at christmas.....then theres questionable strategic decisions made Everyone defending their own pet area needs to admit changes have to be made in every category to clean up CIE and if they don't they can't complain when the Govt turns around and decides it's time to run the DART like Luas (private company runs it, state owns the infrastructure), and does a London style bus plan with Dublin Bus and Expressway Were I transport minister, i'd argue to finance and the Taoiseach that we should do a zero based budget for Bus Eireann, start from scratch and build Bus Eireann 2.0 get rid of all the rot and if the unions refuse to agree to that, implement a package of unilateral cuts to BE and do competition with expressway
Infini2 wrote: » IR is still a mess and nowadays theres a severe shortage of staff and unmanned stations all over the place. Leo didnt exacly rescue anything the funding was butchered and it the extra funding was only given because in the event of any administration the gov wouldve been hit with a far larger bill had they not. The damage is still there the report a while back pointed out theres debt there as a result of the gov not paying its fair share for example.
oppenheimer1 wrote: » IR are not short staffed. What they have are staff that are inflexible and won't take on the new roles that the company needs them to do.
oppenheimer1 wrote: » Union mantra of "not in my job description". Go into any operation and you'll see plenty sitting around doing nothing .
oppenheimer1 wrote: » IR are not short staffed. What they have are staff that are inflexible and won't take on the new roles that the company needs them to do. Union mantra of "not in my job description". Go into any operation and you'll see plenty sitting around doing nothing .
bigredone wrote: » So in a nut shell. BE gets €20 a year per FTP, while this private bus operator gets €21 for one return ticket FTP user. Sounds like BE is seriously underfunded for the FTP
devnull wrote: » Let me get this right, BE are getting paid €20 for every free travel pass holder, despite the fact a lot of those holders would probably never even use Bus Eireann?
n97 mini wrote: » Does the same apply to Feda, as they'd see even less FTP holders?
Bambi wrote: » Joe taxpayer pays a hefty price for a bus service and he deserves one. He sure wasn't getting value when bus eireann had the run of the place. No surprise that they couldn't handle competition Let them go to the wall, we can do better
Bambi wrote: » Joe taxpayer pays a hefty price for a bus service and he deserves one. He sure wasn't getting value when bus eireann had the run of the place. No surprise that they couldn't handle competition
Bambi wrote: » Let them go to the wall, we can do better
end of the road wrote: » not let them go to the wall, this tax payer doesn't wish ireland to potentially turn into another britain.
salonfire wrote: » Paying drivers over the odds is a major part of their problems.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...ions-1.2949493 On the FTP “We have an agreement with the Department of Social Protection which means they cover 70 per cent of the cost” Bus Feda charges €30 for a Donegal-Galway return. So in a nut shell. BE gets €20 a year per FTP, while this private bus operator gets €21 for one return ticket FTP user. Sounds like BE is seriously underfunded for the FTP
salonfire wrote: » Your taxes have nothing to do with the problems Bus Eireann are having.
salonfire wrote: » The losses stem from Expressway because they are unable to compete with more efficient private sector who are flying along. Did I hear numbers are up 50%/60% on some routes. i'm well aware of where the losses stem from, thanks. i'm sure being able to pick routes will make those private operators more efficient seeing as they don't have to serve all and sundry if they do not wish to. does bus eireann expressway dispite being a commercial service really have that freedom? wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, tbh. salonfire wrote: » Expressway is not given any subvention. i'm well aware of that, thanks. i've said it enough on this board over the years. no point in telling me things i know, you are just wasting typing time. salonfire wrote: » Paying drivers over the odds is a major part of their problems. no it isn't because they don't pay drivers over the odds. they pay them at the higher end of the market rate sure, but not over the odds. Jamie2k9 wrote: » If a commercial route is loss making the you either withdraw it or look at how to improve it. i agree. however, does bus eireann politically have the freedom to actually withdraw expressway routes dispite being commercial routes if they need to do so?
salonfire wrote: » Expressway is not given any subvention.
Jamie2k9 wrote: » If a commercial route is loss making the you either withdraw it or look at how to improve it.
i agree. however, does bus eireann politically have the freedom to actually withdraw expressway routes dispite being commercial routes if they need to do so?
end of the road wrote: » no it isn't because they don't pay drivers over the odds. they pay them at the higher end of the market rate sure, but not over the odds
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