Bust Éireann

Boulevardier

Everyone is not a winner. Pay and working conditions get driven down for everyone.

Graham

Boulevardier wrote: »

Everyone is not a winner. Pay and working conditions get driven down for everyone.

I'm trying to come up with a reason why BE drivers should be a special case that warrant additional public funding to immunise them from the effects of the labour market.

I got nothing.

bk

Boulevardier wrote: »

Everyone is not a winner. Pay and working conditions get driven down for everyone.

And that has always been the problem with BE. A company run for the benefit of the employees rather then the benefit of the public they are supposed to be serving.

Boulevardier

Workers need to "immunised" from a race to the bottom.

The first step needs to be better union legal recognition protection.

Graham

Boulevardier wrote: »

Workers need to "immunised" from a race to the bottom.

The first step needs to be better union legal recognition protection.

That theory doesn't appear to be playing out too well for BE at the moment.

amcalester

Boulevardier wrote: »

Everyone is not a winner. Pay and working conditions get driven down for everyone.

Perhaps not at a micro level but on a macro level everyone is a winner.

Morpheus

I travel once weekly to waterford.

BE and Dublin coach operate at roughly same times

I got the expressway once from waterford to red cow, same price as dublin coach, the BE coach went down some mad back road route and took longer as it had to nip through a lot of empty villages to pick up a smattering of people. That was the last time, Dublin Coaches route is pretty direct, one stop at kilkenny and that's it.

BE have no choice but to cover the routes in this manner as far as im aware... Private operators avoid these rural areas along the route.

Bus Eireann 0700 service to Dublin red cow: Stops:
Waterford (Bus Station)
Mullinavat (Mulhearns)
Ballyhale (Opp Day Today)
Thomastown (O Keefes)
Kilkenny (Ormonde House)
Kilkenny (Rail Station)
Gowran (Opposite Power’s)
Royal Oak (Slip Road)
Leighlinbridge Cross
Carlow IT (Opp Main Entrance)
Carlow (Barrack St)
Newlands Cross (Northbound)
Red Cow LUAS

Dublin Coach, Waterford to Red cow: Stops:
Waterford (Merchants Quay)
Kilkenny (Ormonde Road)
Kilkenny (McDonagh Junction)
Red Cow LUAS

How is this competition?

Graham

Morpheus wrote: »

I travel once weekly to waterford.

BE and Dublin coach operate at roughly same times

I got the expressway once from waterford to red cow, same price as dublin coach, the BE coach went down some mad back road route and took longer as it had to nip through a lot of empty villages to pick up a smattering of people. That was the last time, Dublin Coaches route is pretty direct, one stop at kilkenny and that's it.

BE have no choice but to cover the routes in this manner as far as im aware... Private operators avoid these rural areas along the route.

Bus Eireann 0700 service to Dublin red cow: Stops:
Waterford (Bus Station)
Mullinavat (Mulhearns)
Ballyhale (Opp Day Today)
Thomastown (O Keefes)
Kilkenny (Ormonde House)
Kilkenny (Rail Station)
Gowran (Opposite Power’s)
Royal Oak (Slip Road)
Leighlinbridge Cross
Carlow IT (Opp Main Entrance)
Carlow (Barrack St)
Newlands Cross (Northbound)
Red Cow LUAS

Dublin Coach, Waterford to Red cow: Stops:
Waterford (Merchants Quay)
Kilkenny (Ormonde Road)
Kilkenny (McDonagh Junction)
Red Cow LUAS

How is this competition?

You're right, it's unfair competition. The private operators should be offered the same subsidies to operate the otherwise un-economic but arguably socially necessary stops.

joeysoap

The M1 was one of the first motorways in the country. I had a daughter in college who tried commuting for a year. BE ignored the motorway and went via Castlebellingham, Dunleer, Drogheda, Gormanstown, Balbriggan etc. 2 coaches left bus office in Dundalk at 6.30 am each morning and played 'hopscotch' with each other (as one stopped for passengers the other overtook) I phoned BE and asked them why they weren't using the motorway. 'PSO' was the response. I asked why every 2nd coach couldn't go direct, same answer 'PSO'. Few years later Matthews coaches start motorway services (some direct, some via Drogheda) and guess who joins them on the motorway?

I do understand BE has to provide a service to small villages that private operators don't/won't provide and for this BE should be well subsidised. But not every village should get every bus to detour, BE should be allowed direct services too.

Matthews now run 20 times to Dublin from Dundalk daily with 23 return services. Could BE have captured this market if it wasn't for the requirement to call to ever village/town on the old N1?

http://commuter.matthews.ie/images/012Dundalk-DubSept.2016.pdf

The times in bold usually mean two coaches departing at the same time, with one of the direct, the other via Drogheda with a few extra stops.

road_high

Morpheus wrote: »

I travel once weekly to waterford.

BE and Dublin coach operate at roughly same times

I got the expressway once from waterford to red cow, same price as dublin coach, the BE coach went down some mad back road route and took longer as it had to nip through a lot of empty villages to pick up a smattering of people. That was the last time, Dublin Coaches route is pretty direct, one stop at kilkenny and that's it.

BE have no choice but to cover the routes in this manner as far as im aware... Private operators avoid these rural areas along the route.

Bus Eireann 0700 service to Dublin red cow: Stops:
Waterford (Bus Station)
Mullinavat (Mulhearns)
Ballyhale (Opp Day Today)
Thomastown (O Keefes)
Kilkenny (Ormonde House)
Kilkenny (Rail Station)
Gowran (Opposite Power’s)
Royal Oak (Slip Road)
Leighlinbridge Cross
Carlow IT (Opp Main Entrance)
Carlow (Barrack St)
Newlands Cross (Northbound)
Red Cow LUAS

Dublin Coach, Waterford to Red cow: Stops:
Waterford (Merchants Quay)
Kilkenny (Ormonde Road)
Kilkenny (McDonagh Junction)
Red Cow LUAS

How is this competition?

I think you're not comparing like with like here...as far as I'm aware almost all of the BE Dublin-Waterford services follow the M9 motorway like Dublin Coach, with one stop in Carlow.
The route you took was probably one of the old route (old N9) services they were obliged to keep up to serve these small towns and villages. I think there's only 1 or 2 per day, the timetable would tell you which times avoid these places and is quicker.

Morpheus

That was on the 7am a few weeks ago on a weekday, trying to get into work in dublin before 10am

end of the road

Boulevardier wrote: »

Iarnrod Eireann has hugely improved their trains and onboard facilities with no competition at all from other rail operators.

i am not sure i agree. while they have implemented things like plug sockets and wifi straight from the off on some of their trains, the onboard environment is of a lower quality over all compared to the older stock. the train once had staff to deal with customer issues and insure the various rules were obeyed, people could buy a breakfast on the train (whether it was the best quality or not probably depended) but they're would be no excuse if managed properly not to be of a high standard if offered now (not that they're was then)
those 2 aspects are among probably many that rail travel is usually known for and which if implemented correctly could be of worth today. while people of course can purchase food and drink elsewhere for example, the fact is IE had an opportunity to make the onboard environment of their trains of the best quality, reflecting the reasons people usually choose the train and which would be of value and worth the fares people pay. they have not done that, and now our trains are effectively an overpriced bus service with no staff, everyone is left to themselves and the people do not get the value and quality they deserve. it's a crying shame.
granted dispite having a very basic offering, i would take IE over the uk railway any day. in saying that, it's no coincidence that it was x management from the uk railway responsible for the lowering of quality, but that's not to say over all IE were a great operator before, as they certainly weren't.

devnull wrote: »

Which basically will drive wages up and increase the end costs to public transport users, be that through the higher required PSO and higher fares. Essentially what your statement implys that you believe you believe the private interests of the staff are more important than the interests of the people who actually use the service.

no he believes in protecting terms and conditions and preventing a race to the bottom. better for wages to go up then to be driven down to the lowest common denominator.

devnull wrote: »

The problem is though they are locked out on a lot of key markets now, because NTA only issue licenses for two operators on any corridor so on many of these routes it's too late because two other companies got there before they did which is the key failings which have led them to the current situation.

which is a problem. the NTA shouldn't be able to lock other operators out of the market. if they want to regulate the market then they must give all operators who want to operate services on a corridor a chance to do so and regulate accordingly.

in some ways i also don't blame bus eireann for not getting in before hand and running these services and here is why. politics. lets say bus eireann did start up the services and it turned out they were right and they're was no demand how do you think it would have ended for them? it certainly wouldn't have ended well. politicians whining left right and centre and god knows what the government might have done as a come back. bus eireann are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Vic_08

Graham wrote: »

You're right, it's unfair competition. The private operators should be offered the same subsidies to operate the otherwise un-economic but arguably socially necessary stops.

They are offered the same subsidy on that route: 0

It is a BE Expressway route which is not subsidised. When BE stop serving those towns either to compete with the privates or by withdrawing the service completely then the taxpayer will be forced to fund a service for those towns.

In the case of Urlingford, Durrow, Abbeyleix on the old N8 and Kilcullen, Athy, Castlecomber on the N78 route this is is exactly what has happened.

The taxpayer funded services that now operate on these routes are less frequent, less well connected and less well used.

On the part of the Waterford-Dublin route north of Carlow the town of Castledermot and the villages between there and Kilcullen have also had their service slashed due to both Bus Eireann and JJ Kavanagh diverting services away from them to compete for the more valuable City-City traffic.

The NTA have been using the rural Local Link scheme to fill in gaps left by retreating commercial services, this scheme has an astronomical subvention rate per passenger and is squarely aimed at local travel for free pass holders. It has poor to nonexistent timetable and fares information available and no through ticketing or defined connections for passengers from further afield.

end of the road

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

it has not been a success. external factors are the influence for growth which so happened to begin around the time of privatization. britain's rail subsidy dispite being a decent amount brings less value for money over all, costs are high and users are paying the most expensive fares in the world. also, that article is rather full of the usual privatization propaganda.
1. how motorists don't expect other tax payers to pay for their journeys, dispite the fact that actually it isn't just road tax alone spent on roads.
2. believes the railway shouldn't get subsidy, dispite the fact a subsidy free railway will never be realised.
3. the obligatory rant about unions. a suggestion of how apparently the current southern dispute would be a lot worse under a nationalised railway, dispite british rail been broken up into sectors long before privatization, and the fact it's the dft actually behind the southern dispute pulling the strings.
4. the inaccurate tale of how working practices have been "modernised" since privatization, dispite the fact that most if not all of the current working practices were brought in by british rail. promotions had been given on merrit long before privatization.
that and all the stereotypes about br, which while not a fantastic operator for most of it's life it was actually getting there toards the end and likely would have been a lot better then the current system had they gotten anything near the funding levels currently given. maintaining the railway likely wouldn't have cost anything near as much and more would have been done by now. britain is only beginning to catch up on what needs to be done, br were trying to do it years ago with a lot less and would have had it done by now most likely had proper funding been given.

ED E wrote: »

Why? Because they love to gouge the public/taxpayer? Ehh no thanks.

because others wouldn't do it if given the chance of course. no, it would to be to insure more competition and protection of terms and conditions for all.

ED E wrote: »

If BE cant compete tender it all out. Lads driving for Aircoach were always perfectly competent despite the wage gap.

why. tendering it out costs money and they're is the potential for us to be paying more long term. no thanks, this tax payer does not wish to take the risk. i would expect any driver driving for a bus company to be competent.

Graham wrote: »

That's a rather roundabout way of saying BE can't compete because they pay their drivers over the market rate.

it's not no . BE pay their drivers the right wage for what is a very responsible job. i would have no issue with the terms of the others being brought up to the same standard all though i recognise that sadly that won't happen.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

BE pay their drivers the right wage for what is a very responsible job. i would have no issue with the terms of the others being brought up to the same standard all though i recognise that sadly that won't happen.

I'm not convinced having a bunch of people join the dole queue where they can discuss their old 'right wage' is going to do anyone any favours.

devnull

end of the road wrote: »

which is a problem. the NTA shouldn't be able to lock other operators out of the market. if they want to regulate the market then they must give all operators who want to operate services on a corridor a chance to do so and regulate accordingly.

So basically what you propose is a policy that allows as many operators as possible on a particular route, basically a light de-regulation where you can have an unlimited number of operators on a service at any one time. That policy has failed in the UK bus market because it really does create a race to the bottom and an oversupply of services, most of which are running empty and there is not enough passengers for anyone to make a route pay.

It also promotes predatory tactics, whereby one or two operators invest millions in a new service, only for the predator to come in at a later date once the service is proven and has attracted lots of people, to then undercut them having had no desire to put the ground work in and are merely interested in syphooning off the market that the other companies have created by investing in the area.

That in turn will prevent innovation in the market, since no business is going to invest a lot of capital in a service when they know that as soon as it's successful, someone is just going to run a service to near identical specification to cream off someone elses investment because they don't want to put the hard work in themselves. The end result is a market that will develop slower, and react to the needs of passengers slower.

This won't help Bus Eireann either, since for every route they will gain a license for, there will be another route where the competition would gain a license that previously they were not able to get hold of, of which BE already has one, so they'll win some and they'll lose some but overall there will be little change market wise, they'll gain licenses on Commercial routes where they don't at the moment whilst also allowing competitors onto routes where there is no competition right now and are the dominant operator.

in some ways i also don't blame bus eireann for not getting in before hand and running these services and here is why. politics. lets say bus eireann did start up the services and it turned out they were right and they're was no demand

That is the reality of working in a commercial environment. You cannot just be assured that something is going to work. There is always an element of risk. That is why you need the right people in your employment and the right tools to asses if a service is viable or not to make sure you get the decisions right almost all of the time.

The fact is on many routes BE decided there was no demand and privates showed there was which undermined BE's position in the corridor. Essentially the commercial management of the company failed in their job and led the company to make decisions which have now backfired in a spectacular way.They made the wrong decisions and ultimately those responsible should hang their head in shame, but instead they point to the staff and the NTA and everyone but themselves and that is a disgrace in itself

What BE need to do now is to get in a new CEO from outside of the company who is an expert in both transport and has a high level of commercial skills. Hiring from within is just going to lead to more of the same and more of the same will lead to more of the same results. It will never get better unless BE learn from the mistakes of the past and make sure they do not repeat them again. I feel sorry for staff because their management never admit to any failings so it's no wonder industrial relations are so bad between company and workforce.

how do you think it would have ended for them? it certainly wouldn't have ended well. politicians whining left right and centre and god knows what the government might have done as a come back. bus eireann are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Do you think that other operators are exempt from people who are putting petitions up? JJ Kavanagh had a lot of people complaining about service changes in the past, Aircoach have had it in the past with the Cork route and are now having it with the Dalkey route, Citylink have had it in the past as well when they reduced their commuter service to Galway.

The difference is that no matter what the politicians say, these companies have had the balls to stand up to them since it is not the requirement of any commercial service to service routes that are not viable. This is the same for Expressway as it is for any other operator. They should start running Expressway as a full commercial entity and make decisions based on those factors alone and be more ruthless.

Ultimately if the NTA do not like that, then that is something for the NTA to sort out, but instead of trying to be the white knight and be good to all people, Expressway needs to start acting like a commercial business and doing whatever it takes to reach it's potential as one, rather than being too worried about the actions of everyone else. No commercial business should be run in that way, any business who acts like that will ultimately lose in a proper marketplace with competitors.

bk

Really interesting quote from the Director of the NTA here:

He said that between 2012 and 2015, total bus passenger numbers on the Cork Dublin Corridor increased by 61 per cent, while on the Limerick Dublin Corridor, they increased by 50%.

It just goes to show how terribly out of touch BE have been of the needs of public transport users. For years BE have been telling us that there was no demand for increased and improved services on these routes.

These numbers clearly show the lie in that, they clearly show that the private operators haven't just taken customers from BE, but more importantly have massively increased the numbers of people taking public transport on these corridors. They have made public transport far more attractive to the public.

It really isn't about cost or undercutting BE on price. Every time I've looked, the private operators ticket prices have always been around the same as BE. No it is more about the quality of the vastly superior service they offer, far faster non-stop services, hourly almost 24/7 services, extra buses put on when demand needs it, better facilities (toilets/wifi/sockets/etc.).

The private operators on the intercity services have been the best thing to happen to public transport in Ireland since the Luas opened IMO.

Del.Monte

While I'm no CIE fanboy the uncontrolled proliferation of private operators, both passenger and freight, over the last forty years is not sustainable or desirable for a myriad of reasons including safety, environmental, wages and the end game where large parts of the country will be devoid of services.

devnull

Del.Monte wrote: »

While I'm no CIE fanboy the uncontrolled proliferation of private operators, both passenger and freight, over the last forty years is not sustainable or desirable for a myriad of reasons including safety, environmental, wages and the end game where large parts of the country will be devoid of services.

It isn't uncontrolled and private operators is not the correct term. It is commercial operators of which BE expressway is one.BE expressway are subject to same rules as any other commercial operators.

The basic rule is two commercial operators on each route. First two to apply get the route. The idea is it rewards and protects innovators and protects against predatory operators. This has resulted in commercial companies being able to grow the market and entice people to switch to using the bus who otherwise might not.

If a service is not viable that is something the national transport authority should put out to tender as part of the publicly funded network. That is the role of that body and if you have issues with services not being provided ultimately that will be caused by them. However they say they will not let that happen.

See here
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/statement-by-national-transport-authority-on-bus-services-in-rural-communities/

bk

Del.Monte wrote: »

While I'm no CIE fanboy the uncontrolled proliferation of private operators, both passenger and freight, over the last forty years is not sustainable or desirable for a myriad of reasons including safety, environmental, wages and the end game where large parts of the country will be devoid of services.

I'm sorry but that sounds like pure scare mongering to me!

- Safety - How? Aren't the private operators required to follow all the same safety requirements of their license with the NTA as BE are required too under the same license from the NTA? Plus all the various safety laws of the roads authorities, employment regulators, etc.

- Environment? - How? Aren't the private operators required to follow all the same environmental laws when buying new coaches as BE? Euro 6 engines, etc. And in fact given that new buses and engines tend to be more fuel efficient, it tends to be in operators own economic interest to get the latest engines and coaches as it helps reduce their fuel costs.

- Wages, sure I'll give you that one. But why should I as a member of the general public care about that? I just want a high quality service. I would hope the drivers earn a decent wage, but BE have in no way being delivering a high quality service to match the very high wages their staff earn.

- Country devoid of service? No reason why the PSO subsidies BE receive can't be given to private operators to run non-profitable routes. In fact, given that private operators seem to be able to operate services for a lot less money then BE. Then logically the same amount of PSO money could actually go much further with private operators and we could actually end up with more routes and service in rural areas.

Remember private operators run profitable services in some of the most rural areas of Donegal that even BE won't run. Proving that you definitely don't need a semi-state company to run rural routes.

PeadarCo

oppenheimer1 wrote:

What BE have let happen is that they have failed to innovate and let their cost base get out of control. It will be interesting to see how the government and the union's react to the inevitable layoffs, cuts to services and reorganisation of the company.

This sums up Bus Eireanns problem which is huge. Its very similar to the situation Aer Lingus faced when competition from Ryanair arrived. Bus services will probably go a similar way as there's very few people who'd go back to Pre Ryanair/low cost airlines days

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Country devoid of service? No reason why the PSO subsidies BE receive can't be given to private operators to run non-profitable routes. In fact, given that private operators seem to be able to operate services for a lot less money then BE. Then logically the same amount of PSO money could actually go much further with private operators and we could actually end up with more routes and service in rural areas.

Remember private operators run profitable services in some of the most rural areas of Donegal that even BE won't run. Proving that you definitely don't need a semi-state company to run rural routes.

if that was the case then the uk would have the cheepist bus subsidies and fares in the world seeing as they rely totally on private operators. they don't. so to me at least, relying on them alone is not a good idea, we need a semi-state also.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

if that was the case then the uk would have the cheepist bus subsidies and fares in the world seeing as they rely totally on private operators.

That's just not logical, you have to factor in local costs, passenger fares, free travel, service/operational commitments etc etc etc.

The comparison should reasonably be could an alternative operator run a mandated service for less subsidy.

monument

Full NTA statement:

Statement by National Transport Authority on bus services in rural communities
11th January 2017

Tim Gaston, Director of Public Transport Services said:

“Suggestions that decisions made by the National Transport Authority (NTA) in granting commercial licences to bus operators have been to blame for the difficulties being experienced by Bus Éireann, simply do not stand up to scrutiny.

“The notion that there is saturation on the inter-city corridors served by Expressway services, and that the NTA grants licences to operators at the drop of a hat, is well wide of the mark.

“In fact since 2011, we have rejected almost as many applications for licences on these key routes, as we have granted.

“In any case, over 80 per cent of Bus Éireann passengers travel on their subsidised services, which are under no threat whatsoever, with just 19 per cent using their commercial services such as Expressway.

“Our primary responsibility in law is to the travelling public, and when we assess an application for a commercial licence, we do so with this in mind, while looking at a whole range of considerations including likely passenger demand, impact on existing services and impact on subsidised services.

“It has consistently been the case that where new licences are issued in these markets, that overall passenger numbers have increased, in many cases, very significantly. For example, between 2012 and 2015, total bus passenger numbers on the Cork Dublin Corridor increased by 61 per cent, while on the Limerick Dublin Corridor, they increased by 50 per cent.

“In other words, rather than saturating the market, what we have actually done is increase public transport capacity, and in so doing enabled many more journeys to be undertaken on the bus network.

“Unfortunately, there has been some level of confusion in discourse around Bus Éireann in recent days and weeks, and it is crucial to reassure the company’s customers, particularly in rural areas by looking at the facts of the matter.

“Bus Éireann commercial services like Expressway, account for only 19 per cent of all the company’s passengers.

“81 per cent of Bus Éireann passengers are on routes subsidised under the Public Service Obligation (PSO) Contract that the company has entered with NTA.

“This will not change, and these services are under no threat. In fact they have been a huge success story in recent years, with passenger numbers continuing to increase. Last week the NTA published figures for 2016, which indicated a 5.5 per cent increase in passengers on Bus Éireann subsidised services, jumping from 30.2m in 2015 to 32m last year.

“Subvention for these services by the NTA to Bus Éireann increased from €34m in 2014, to €40m in 2016. And that figure is likely to go up again in 2017. The NTA successfully made a case for an increase from the state for PSO funding, and this year we will be allocating €262.6m in public transport subsidies to operators including Bus Éireann, up from €236.6 in 2016.

“If it is the case that some Expressway services are discontinued at local level, NTA will, as our track record proves, step in and ensure that local demands for public transport are met. We will not leave any rural communities behind.

“It is the duty of the NTA to ensure that as many people as possible, in all parts of this country, have access to a safe, reliable and value-for-money public transport service, and we will continue to discharge our responsibilities in that regard, without fear or favour.”

n97 mini

If anyone heard the NTA guy on the radio today, BE's problem is Expressway, which is uncompetitive.

He said rural routes will grow in revenue as the intention is to shake down the DSP for more taxpayer money, thus ensuring the future of PSO services, particularly in the midwest and west, guaranteeing Be's future.

Vic_08

Statement by National Transport Authority on bus services in rural communities
11th January 2017

Tim Gaston, Director of Public Transport Services said:

“Suggestions that decisions made by the National Transport Authority (NTA) in granting commercial licences to bus operators have been to blame for the difficulties being experienced by Bus Éireann, simply do not stand up to scrutiny.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/statement-by-national-transport-authority-on-bus-services-in-rural-communities/

It is easy to say that when in fact their actions are not open to scrutiny. None of the process of licencing is available for public review, the DoT and now NTA keep it all hidden.

It is a documented fact that dodgy dealings went on under DoT control, we only have the word of Tim Gaston to go on regarding the NTA's conduct.

The Galway-Dublin Express route awarding is somewhat public following the court case over Citylink's illegal operation of express services and subsequent award of a licence over Bus Eireann despite Bus Eireann having applied for one several YEARS earlier.

Jem72

The whole expressway thing needs review as there could be a much better service provided for the same resources. I live in Longford which is serviced by Irish Rail, and Bus Eireann with Ballina and Sligo services. Fair dues to Bus Eireann as they have expanded these services over the years to give Longford and points further the bones of a 24 hour service to Dublin - there is a bus down at 11PM while the train goes to bed at 7. However there are a two crazy issues with this.

Firstly, for the core hours served by the railway, Bus Eireann are basically competing with another PSO-funded service operated by the same group. Secondly, there is no inter-operation between the two services operated by the same group - neither passes nor return tickets operate between them. A far better service could be provided for the same resources by taking the resources being spent on the core hours bus service and using some of the resources to provide a feeder bus network for the train service.

Sligo and Ballina are unusual cases in that they are relatively low population transport corridors and as such there is a natural monopoly in connecting the two towns to Dublin. The state bus company would be a lot better off focussing its efforts on providing local links and essentially extending the reach of the train service rather than trying to compete with the train service. Of course these local links will lose money but they would provide a very valuable social service and encourage higher use of public transport in general.

For commuters such a connection would be worth a grand a year to them in car savings (more if they could do without a car as a result). This would potentially yield 2,000 a year on a taxsaver so it's not entirely a charity case. There wouldn't even need to be much investment to see if such a service would work, since they could run pilot schemes using school buses that lie idle for most of the day. From Mullingar, Portlaoise and points further from Dublin, these buses could be released back for school runs after covering the peak morning commuter services which all leave before 7:30 am and would not be needed for the peak evening services until after 6.

So I think Bus Eireann should be encouraged to get out of as many loss-making Expressway services as possible but instead of making drivers redundant should be given extra PSO funding to employ them on local services. Perhaps it would even make sense to re-merge Irish Rail and Bus Eireann as a national public service transport company rather than have them competing with each other.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

The Galway-Dublin Express route awarding is somewhat public following the court case over Citylink's illegal operation of express services and subsequent award of a licence over Bus Eireann despite Bus Eireann having applied for one several YEARS earlier.

I am aware of the Citylink situation and that indeed was a farce and they should have never been given a license for a donation to charity like they were.

However you have to remember this was before the National Transport authority existed so it's unfair to blame an organisation who were not around at the time.

In reference to Bus Eireann having a license turned down I have never read this before outside unsubstantiated posts on a forum. Can you please provide a media or official source for your claim that they were discriminated against?

Vic_08

devnull wrote: »

I am aware of the Citylink situation and that indeed was a farce and they should have never been given a license for a donation to charity like they were.

However you have to remember this was before the National Transport authority existed so it's unfair to blame an organisation who were not around at the time.

Again with the putting words in my mouth. I did NOT blame NTA for anything.

I questioned their claim of being open to scrutiny when their decisions are shrouded in secrecy.

The idea that NTA are all new, fresh and unconnected with the previous regime is ridiculous. Do you think all the people previously in the bus licencing division of DoT got the sack when the NTA quango was formed or is it more likely that the division transferred over with much of the same personnel and practices?

If they want to claim their impartiality stands up to scrutiny then they need to actually be scrutinised. The fact that their direct ascendants were proven to be anything but is more than enough to question the NTA's secretive machinations in the absence of any proof.

devnull wrote: »

In reference to Bus Eireann having a license turned down I have never read this before outside unsubstantiated posts on a forum. Can you please provide a media or official source for your claim that they were discriminated against?

It was reported in the media at the time, as you seem to think a link to oireachtas.ie is good enough to reference your facts, this should be proof enough for you; go search.

schemingbohemia

NTA are subject to FOI Vic_08 - how many applications have you made to them? There is commercial sensitivity to most of these decisions though so how should they get around that legally?

List of current licensed services available here
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/view-list-of-current-licences/

What kind of transparency are you looking for from them? How many decisions have been taken to judicial review by aggrieved bus operators since the formation of the NTA? I would guess less than half a dozen, that doesn't seem to me to indicate a poor management of the licensing regime.