the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

seven stars

Thanks for the replies lads.

@crosstownk Yes, the rollers of the chain aren't engaging with the teeth. The chain is fairly new though. I might try replacing it all the same.

@Type 17
I didn't think the limit screws would be of any use here. I understood that they prevent the chain from either falling off 'outwards' (at the high side) onto your pedals, or else falling 'inwards' (at the low side) onto the bottom bracket shell.

This is different, because I'm going from the big ring to the small ring - so the issue is occurring right in the middle of the derailer's range of movement rather than at either extremity. In any case, I haven't made any changes to the limit screws at all, and the thing was working fine until recently.

cython

Possibly not much help to you, but I had a similar issue with a 9 speed chainset used in a 10 speed setup a while ago. It worked perfectly fine with the stock Shimano chainrings, but when they wore out I got them replaced with Stronglight 9/10 speed ones, and that behaviour started. Given the disparity between the chainset and the rest of the gearing I eventually bit the bullet and bought a cheapo 4600 chainset on CRC, and the problem went away, so I guess it's worth checking did you replace like with like in terms of chainrings, and this that they have the same spacing?

Type 17

If the derailleur is falling all the way to the L limit screw on the downshift, then opening it a little will help. If it’s a newer Shimano groupset, then it may be falling onto the “trim” setting in the shifter (ie: another shifter movement is required for it to fall to the limit screw), then loosening the cable tension a little would be the answer, but that might upset the tension when the chain is on the big ring. If so, check whether the front derailleur cage is exactly paralell to the rings and is low enough (1-3mm vertical gap between the bottom of the outer edge of the cage and the tips of the big ring teeth).

gaffmaster

It does sound like a cable tension issue to me too.

This video is great for setting up front derailleurs/cables. Did you change your cable when you changed your front DR?

seven stars

I didn't replace the cable, but I had to release it completely and then reattach it.

Seems strange that I'd be getting the exact same behaviour both before and after loosening the cable and then reattaching it to the new derailer's cable bolt. If it was just down to cable tension then that would (presumably) have to be just a coincidence - which seems unlikely. But I dunno.

I appreciate the suggestions though - thanks for everyone's input.

gaffmaster

seven stars wrote: »

I didn't replace the cable, but I had to release it completely and then reattach it.

Seems strange that I'd be getting the exact same behaviour both before and after loosening the cable and then reattaching it to the new derailer's cable bolt. If it was just down to cable tension then that would (presumably) have to be just a coincidence - which seems unlikely. But I dunno.

I appreciate the suggestions though - thanks for everyone's input.

If the problem is that the derailleur wont return to the lowest point by the power of it's own spring when the cable tension is released (shifting down in this instance), then it's most likely a sticky cable. It's probably worth replacing the cable and housing anyway, especially if the bike has seen a full winter already. I'm no expert btw - this is just something I picked up from somewhere.

Macy0161

Type 17 wrote: »

Clamp the tool in a bench-vice tightly and jerk the wheel, rather than steadily pulling hard.

Going to have another go one of the other nights, but no joy with this method either! Haven't given up, but just ordered a new one in the meantime!

Type 17

Macy0161 wrote: »

Going to have another go one of the other nights, but no joy with this method either! Haven't given up, but just ordered a new one in the meantime!

Freewheels are relatively cheap, so if needs be, you can tap open the outer cone (left hand thread), spill all of the bearings onto the floor, and put the inner part directly into the vice and try to unscrew that. (Note that if the chain and freewheel are well-worn, you'll need a new chain as well as a new freewheel).

PS: Is it a decent/rare/special wheel? Why do you need to remove the freewheel?

Macy0161

Type 17 wrote:

PS: Is it a decent/rare/special wheel? Why do you need to remove the freewheel?

I'm trying to remove the freewheel as I think the bearings are gone (lateral play in the wheel). It's not a special wheel - have brought a replacement, but was hoping to reuse the freewheel.

It's all kinda practice for my restore bike! Hoping to make the mistakes on this one.

Type 17

Well, nothing to lose then

Give a good jerk at the rim (anti-clockwise, right? :pac:;)), and don't be shy, the force of pedalling is what tightens the freewheel, so it you can expect it to be very tight - I've had (ropey, old) wheels come close to collapse/implosion before the f/w came loose...

It's not the end of the world if you can't save the freewheel - just don't injure yourself or break any tools trying - I broke a (cheap) vice with a stuck freewheel a few years ago.

Redjeep!

Hi everyone.

Anybody know if you can install a 1x11 on an old frame ? I have an old Genesis Core 30 that's currently 3x9. The gears are getting very worn and I'm thinking of replacing it with a 1x11 rig.

I'm not sure if the fittings etc are compatible. Most the rear mechs are advertised as direct mount (like this one):

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-deore-xt-m8000-11-speed-rear-derailleur-gs/

and I don't know if that needs any special frame mounts.

Macy0161

Type 17 wrote: »

Well, nothing to lose then

Give a good jerk at the rim (anti-clockwise, right? :pac:;)), and don't be shy, the force of pedalling is what tightens the freewheel, so it you can expect it to be very tight - I've had (ropey, old) wheels come close to collapse/implosion before the f/w came loose...

It's not the end of the world if you can't save the freewheel - just don't injure yourself or break any tools trying - I broke a (cheap) vice with a stuck freewheel a few years ago.

No, not really bothered about the freewheel. It was actually as much to have a stab at doing the bearings. This is on my commuter, which is a Carrera, so no components really worth much but have a medium term restore plan on my old 5 speed "racer" that me mam kept!

crosstownk

gaffmaster wrote: »

If the problem is that the derailleur wont return to the lowest point by the power of it's own spring when the cable tension is released (shifting down in this instance), then it's most likely a sticky cable. It's probably worth replacing the cable and housing anyway, especially if the bike has seen a full winter already. I'm no expert btw - this is just something I picked up from somewhere.

Also consider a dirty/sticky spring/pivots. I've seen this with an RD where the lad bought a new chain then a new cassette when a decent clean and degrease of the RD is what solved the problem.

brownian

Just a comment/update - my bike was creaking like a pig, every time I got out of the saddle. The LBS could find nothing wrong with the bottom bracket...but the creak kept on.

Eventually, I opened, greased, and replaced every bolt I could easily get at (stem bolts, headset pinchers, seatpost collar, chainring bolts, wheel quick-releases). Not the bottom bracket (beyond my skill/courage grade).

The creak went away.

My guess is that the stem bolts or pinchers were the root cause - when you stand up, you not only put pressure on the bottom bracket, you also pull on the bars.

So, just a confirmation that bottom bracket creaks sometimes aren't BB, and that simple approaches can help, sometimes.

Interested Observer

Is there a maintenance for dummies guide out there on the internet anywhere? I've had my bike about 10 months now, dropped it into a bike shop in the summer for a service but have done nothing myself except pump up the tyres now and then. What's the bare minimum I should be doing?

Macy0161

Type 17 wrote: »

It's not the end of the world if you can't save the freewheel - just don't injure yourself or break any tools trying - I broke a (cheap) vice with a stuck freewheel a few years ago.

Just on this, on my new wheel and freewheel, should I be putting grease/ anti seize paste/ something else before fitting the freewheel? Or is there no real way of avoiding the constant tightening pressure (from the massive power I obviously put out)?

Type 17

Feel free to do it, but I’ve never had trouble getting one off because of corrosion, just general tightness or maybe poor threads (cheap components).

ednwireland

Interested Observer wrote: »

Is there a maintenance for dummies guide out there on the internet anywhere? I've had my bike about 10 months now, dropped it into a bike shop in the summer for a service but have done nothing myself except pump up the tyres now and then. What's the bare minimum I should be doing?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/park-tool-big-blue-book-of-bicycle-repair-bbb-3/rp-prod109887

also loads of videos here (click on where is the problem - top right)
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/

gaffmaster

gaffmaster wrote: »

I'm in an almost identical situation. My cranks are FSA Vero (with Sora derailleurs). Asked a bike mechanic yesterday if 105 cranks would work with the rest of the set up and he seemed to think it would. So I ordered some cranks. Now I need to buy a bottom bracket and figure out how to get the old cranks off (crank puller?).

I also quizzed him on the ability/logic of using an 11 speed chain on the proposed system but he seemed to think THAT wouldn't work. I've read somewhere else (possibly another thread here, or a link from a thread here) that 11 speed chains can be used on 10 and 9 speed groupsets, and are in fact a good idea as they are manufactured to better tolerances. However, that mechanic I spoke to yesterday disputed this based on his own experiences of same.

BTW - If you have strava premium, you can get the 105 cranks for £69ish using you annual unique £15 off wiggle code.

Finally got around to swapping these cranks out. After some difficulty with a crank puller (my own fault), I got the cranks off. The Bottom bracket was reluctant to budge and needed a longer levered tool to be removed (lbs did that for free). Got the new BB in and 105 cranks on, and after adjusting the Sora derailleur a bit (limit screws and tension), it's running perfectly. Which is great!

Macy0161

Not sure the right thread, but is kinda a maintenance question, and I'm definitely stupid....

I'm looking at cross bikes for the missus, and she's also looking to use it on the direct drive turbo. Bike is looking like a sram 1x 11 speed set up - will it just put it on the turbo with the 11 speed road cassette that's on there?

riclad

Is there anything i can put on bike chain to prevent rust,
i cyle everyday ,some times i leave the bike locked up for 4-5 hours
outside at a bike rack.
i,m concerned about rust caused by rain.
is there a chain cover i could get .or should i just oil the chain every few weeks.
is there oil or grease recommended for bike chains .

Type 17

riclad wrote: »

...should I just oil the chain every few weeks?
is there oil or grease recommended for bike chains?

Yes.

Some more info on minding a chain (probably the most annoying aspect of bike ownership):

If the rollers on the centre of each link are grey, things aren't too bad.

If they're silver, the chain is too dry and needs oil.

If they're black and shiny, you're putting too much oil on, back it off a bit - use the colour of the rollers as a guide - you may only need to lube every few weeks during a dry summer, but a few times a week during a wet winter.

If the shape of the plates that make up each link is hard to see, the chain is dirty and needs to be cleaned off and re-lubed. A dirty chain wears prematurely, as the dirt/oil forms a kind of grinding paste inside the links.

Rust on a chain is not an issue in itself, but usually only happens if a chain is too dry, and riding a dry chain wears it out prematurely.

When you lube a chain, dribble the oil on (never use a spray, it goes everywhere) at the sides of the links as you rotate the chain backwards. Wipe the excess off - the oil doing the lubing is inside the links, most of the oil you can see on the outside is just attracting dirt.

Buy a simple chain-wear tool and keep an eye on wear - if you change a chain nice and early, you won't also need to change the cassette/freewheel, but if you wait too long, the worn chain will also have worn the teeth of the cassette and you'll need one of them too (usually almost twice the price of a chain alone). The more sprockets you have at the back, the more expensive the chain/cassette parts are.

Suitable lubes and chain-wear checking tools are available at your LBS or online.

riclad

is There any brand or type of oil you,d recommend for a chain.
i have 2 mountain bikes , bike no 2 the chain is brown ,it might be rusty or maybe
just need to be oiled .
i Intend to donate bike no 2 to a charity
or someplace that takes in old bikes .

seamus

I've always used finish line. They do a wet lube and a dry lube. "Dry" lube basically means that it's less viscous and will evaporate / wash away relatively quickly. "Wet" lube is much thicker, more like cooking oil and in my experience is basically impervious to weather.

I tend to go with the wet lube year-round; once you've applied it once it's never coming off really, so trying to clean it off and start again is a nightmare.

But if I replace a chain in the spring, then I'll stick with the dry lube for six months or so because it creates far less mess.

That's the trade-off really - do you want to apply dry lube before every ride (especially in wet conditions), or would you rather be able to top it up once a month but have a very dirty and oily chain?

magicbastarder

well, back to basics for me. trying to check if i had replaced a tube properly - got a puncture on the way home, swapped the tube over and had a noticeable flat spot for the rest of the journey home. put it down maybe to the fact that the tube is a 19-23 (and looks it), and the tyre is a 25, and my little hand pump wasn't really interested in getting me up to 50, let alone my usual 80-90. swapped over to a 19/23/25 tube at home, tried again, still a flat spot, though not nearly as noticeable at 90. i'm fairly certain the tube is not pinched, but am thinking it may be where i had to wrestle the tyre back on to the rim, it was a bit of a fight? or else the tube itself is somehow twisted inside the tyre?

Type 17

Is the tyre-bead mounted correctly all of the way around the rim?

If you pump up a flat tyre with the weight of the wheel on the ground, the tyre-bead often gets stuck in the valley of the rim, rather than seating in the lip just behind the brake-track. Try letting it down fully, and then pump it up, either with the wheel/bike lying flat on its side, or with an assistant holding the wheel in the air until the pressure seats the bead fully (over about 20 PSI).

The only way a badly fitted tube will lead to flat spots in a (correctly-seated) tyre is if the tube is multiply kinked back on itself and sections of it are actually flat because the kinks cut off the air. (You only get this if you put the wrong-sized tube in a tyre - I've seen 700c tubes crammed into BMX-sized tyres with this result).

magicbastarder

i *think* it's properly seated - i suspect a kink because i did deflate it and reinflate it, but the flat spot stayed in the same place.
i was wondering if wrestling it on (took a good five mins of grunting) might have twisted the tube.

Type 17

To get a flat spot in a tube by twisting it, it would probably have to be turned over two rotations (720 degrees) on itself within a few cm's, like the way you would wring out a cloth - unlikely, IMO.

Suggestion: if it was a wrestle to get the tyre on, perhaps the tyre-bead got bent - this would make the tyre sit consistently badly in the same place afterwards - a slight kink in the wires can be straightened with your fingers, but if it's a sharp kink, check that none of the wires has broken after straightening.

Milk_Tray

when you look at wheels (carbon) and they say 40/40 or 60/60 or 80/101, what does that mean? And why would you have either set over another?

Joe1919

seamus wrote: »

I...... do you want to apply dry lube before every ride .......

Just a comment. Dry lube contains a solvent, so its often recommended to shake the bottle and to allow a few hours for the solvent to evaporate after application before using the bike. (It may be better to use after a ride than before)