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At what salary in Ireland can you be considered to have a decent life?

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123578

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    #122
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    How about blaming the things we can control like parents and teachers. Education is key. Our current system works for a lot but the ones that get left behind are screwed for life that's not the free market or any neoliberals fault.

    Link child allowance to school attendance for starters and let the government hold some of it in trust for 3rd level education for chlldrens parents who are dependent on the state. It'll give little Jonny at least a sporting chance if he makes it through secondary school.

    we actually can control free market will, its purely to do about policy change, we have to want it to change, but we first must understand what to change then figure out how to change it.

    education certainly is key, unfortunately our educational systems also have fundamental design flaws, they are designed around what i call, 'hyper-competitiveness'. this approach is actually very destructive for society as a whole. our educational system should be designed to help people mature to be more cooperative by nature, to do the best for society as a whole, instead they are designed purely for the hyper-competitive employment market.

    we must stop this perpetual need to constantly test people particularly in our educational system, life is not a test! i can completely understand why some parents chose to home educate their kids because of these views.

    is school attendance really that much of an issue? if so, why are kids not going to school? i have the pleasure of doing school runs from time to time, im not a parent, some kids find school very boring and unfulfilling. why is this? maybe its to do with its constant testing and hyper-competitive nature?
    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Yeah pure laziness and selfishness.

    Not really complex.

    Highest jobless houses in Europe. Why can other countries with the same free market as us not have as many lazy families?

    its a perception of 'laziness', the truth is much more complex!


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    #123
    TheBully
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭TheBully


    Combined salary of about 70k here, but I genarally add another 25-35k onto that with OT. We were renting in shared accom last year and got our 30k deposit together for a mortgage in 12 months. We put in a tough year but last September we moved into our new home.
    Our mortgage is 1400 and we have also managed to furnish 80% of the house.
    We have no dependents and don't think this would be possible if we did. Once all our bills are paid we still have a small bit left over for a night or 2 out or a meal.
    No savings at the minute but I'm gonna try sort a credit union soon.
    I had a nice Audi last year but sold that to bump up our savings. Driving a 10 year old Toyota now, but hopefully can replace late this year.


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    #124
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    ted1 wrote: »
    Needs are addressed by our generous welfare system. Wants are why we work hard.

    This is not a thread about welfare.

    The average person has no choice about tax, property tax, various insurances, bin charges, some sort of broad band/phone charge etc.

    They do have some what of a choice about where they purchases property.

    They do have total choice about the car they have and the lifestyle they live and to have health insurance or not.


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    #125
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Boaty wrote: »
    For a single person, 50k would give a very decent lifestyle

    You could have your own place and have a good lifestyle with that salary but you would struggle to buy a home. You would get a mortgage of €175K, which isn't going to get you too far nowadays.


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    #126
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »
    You have the makings of a point there but your evident hatred of public servants is getting in the way of you making it properly.

    The poster stated that he or she had nothing left at the end of the week and that they live in a purchased council house in south Dublin. Didn't read the bit where they stated they should be being paid more.

    But why do they need to live in south county Dublin unless that question is addressed its like discussing all the other points except the main one.


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    #127
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    Single in the Greater Dublin area.... about €35-40k gross

    Single outside Greater Dublin..... about €25-30k gross

    I would say net for Dublin on those amounts, 1100 rent a month for an average apartment, plus bills, food, transport, entertainment, holidays (i.e. a decent life). 35 would give you around 27k, that would be pushing it.


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    #128
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    76544567 wrote: »
    Many people renting now, who had the view for the last few years that renting was fine for life have now changed that view.
    To a lot of them owning a home is a need.
    If you own your own house then you are not subject to the rental market changing.

    People renting in Dublin, who were happy to pay the market value in rent - must accept that the rental market will change. Moving every 5 years to a house a few kilometres down the road is not the end of the world.

    Now what I find amusing is that people who were happy to rent (at reasonable levels of course) are suddenly looking to buy for "security" and are happy to fork out a sizeable premium for the aforementioned security. These same people then start to bemoan the lack of cash flow and how they're being squeezed. When you're renting it's fine but when it's time to buy suddenly the government is all against the little man.

    One huge financial mistake does not cancel out years of penny pinching. If you pay well, well over the odds for a home (or in fact in any significant financial transaction) to be secure instead of renting in a "changing market" you have to accept that you will be compromising in other aspects of your life and paying for that expense for years to come.
    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Sorry this is tosh. Firstly owning a semi detached house isn't living the high life. It's a small house attached to another house. It's what working class people used to buy. Or what council housing used to be (and still is). That the prices are out of joint is based on government policy.

    Secondly this "it's the famine" bollocks is trite. Owning a home gives security. Private renters are insecure. No family would want to be turned out every two-four years. And most European countries have higher house ownership levels than Ireland despite the myths.

    The lavish Christmas is an anecdote. Salaries are where they were, or lower, than 2008. Taxes are higher. In most decades salaries increase by 10+%.

    Rents are increasing but is not like that is a form of conspicuous consumption by renters.

    You've mistaken the costs that make a decent life impossible with extravagant spending.

    No more talk about the what the working class "used" to do. A post man back then could buy a home and have his wife sitting at home minding the kids. Two young professionals in the capital right now with no kids will only barely get a mortgage to buy a reasonable home. Ireland is now urbanizing at a rapid rate and virtually everyone is going to end up working in or around Dublin. And yes, the "working class" cannot afford to buy a house in and around the greater Dublin area no matter what you say. Not in this market.

    Nobody denies that owning a home gives security but you'd better be willing to pay the price for years to come. If you spend beyond your means you will struggle - simple as.

    I don't know what industry you're in but I haven't seen this much job movement in my life. People are hopping to other companies like never before and the money, at least in the upper tiers, is flowing freely. You are right in that this is my opinion and not fact as of yet but if you are denying that things are on the up and up I'd urge you to reconsider.


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    #129
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Berserker wrote: »
    You could have your own place and have a good lifestyle with that salary but you would struggle to buy a home. You would get a mortgage of €175K, which isn't going to get you too far nowadays.

    Jesus thats scary, so how much gross would a single person in Dublin need to be on to buy a modest house?


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    #130
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But why do they need to live in south county Dublin unless that question is addressed its like discussing all the other points except the main one.

    The fact that its presumably a council estate would nullify the south Dublin aspect somewhat, I'd have thought.


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    #131
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Some small comments if i may,, We on welfare and pensions do not get free rent, and we get the lowest end of the market; not complaining by the way. Three generations ago it'd/ve been the workhouse

    Also we do not get free dental treatment beyond a very small ration. I think there were some threads on that a while ago? (I am OK: I have my NHS plastic gnashers I got over three decades ago..)

    I actually sold a small( inheritance) old cottage;I realised I could not afford the maintenance, or to replace appliances etc. It is a decision I have not regretted financially and I sold just before the crash

    It is not the rental fluctuations that worry but the basic uncertainty of renting. My current landlord ( for another few days) wants to sell. I have a one year lease on the new place and no idea which way the owner will jump after that.

    I know what you mean.
    I was in a tiny bedsit myself on rent allowance for about 3 years.
    Then I rented a nicer place when I was working.
    I bought to live in then.
    Then I invested in property too.
    I have now decided that I am selling my investment properties because of the new rent regulations which are punishing me for charging below market rate to my tenants.
    I have to tell my tenants to move out now so that I can sell.
    I didnt want to have to do that, but if I dont i dont know what the government will do to me next year, so I have to leave the sector (The uncertainty of renting from the other side to yourself).
    So I have seen all sides of the property market and I still think that owning the house you live in is the most important thing to achieve while you can.
    I know others will disagree, but what about those who are just above the social welfare line when they retire and cant get rent allowance? Even those a good bit above it will feel rents very badly.
    But if they own their house their expenses are considerably decreased in retirement.


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    #132
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Jesus thats scary, so how much gross would a single person in Dublin need to be on to buy a house?

    was talking to an old friend yesterday for the first time in years, his wife and himself have been trying to buy a house in dublin for some time now, both on very good wages, i assume about 150k a year between both of them. they cant get on the property ladder! dublins in trouble and this was spotted years ago


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    #133
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But why do they need to live in south county Dublin unless that question is addressed its like discussing all the other points except the main one.

    Maybe that's his criteria for a decent life.


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    #134
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #135
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »
    The fact that its presumably a council estate would nullify the south Dublin aspect somewhat, I'd have thought.

    No I pass an old council estate in Deans grange on the way to work and one is for sale I looked it up and its for sale for a huge amount of money lots are purchased by architect types and done up.


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    #136
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Jesus thats scary, so how much gross would a single person in Dublin need to be on to buy a modest house?

    A modest house in Dublin? I'd nearly say you don't have a chance before the age of 40. Need at least 6 figures to even come close.


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    #137
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    was talking to an old friend yesterday for the first time in years, his wife and himself have been trying to buy a house in dublin for some time now, both on very good wages, i assume about 150k a year between both of them. they cant get on the property ladder! dublins in trouble and this was spotted years ago

    This is the problem though - people choosing what they want first (owning a house in Dublin) - and then complaining that they cant afford it.


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    #138
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Jesus thats scary, so how much gross would a single person in Dublin need to be on to buy a modest house?

    It depends on savings but....

    80+. Giving a mortgage of 240-280.


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    #139
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    This is the problem though - people choosing what they want first (owning a house in Dublin) - and then complaining that they cant afford it.

    God almighty. Apparently it's now privileged to want to own a modest house in the city you work in.


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    #140
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    from the property price register.

    64 St Fintans Villas, Deansgrange, Blackrock, Co. Dublin
    €450,000 | 29/09/15 | Semi-Detached House | 3 Bedrooms | 2 Bathrooms


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    #141
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    This is the problem though - people choosing what they want first (owning a house in Dublin) - and then complaining that they cant afford it.

    my friend and his wife arent from dublin but moved there for better career prospects and im delighted to see them achieving their goals. theres many people writing about the 'dysfunctional' property market in dublin, some have being so for years. this was spotted years ago but our governments chose to do little or nothing to deal with it largely believing, 'the market' will solve this, errr emmm, no it wont!


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    #142
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    It depends on savings but....

    80+. Giving a mortgage of 240-280.

    Wonder if it was always relatively thus, for instance in 1970 would you need to be on an execs salary to buy a house in Beaumount or whatever?


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    #143
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    mariaalice wrote: »
    from the property price register.

    64 St Fintans Villas, Deansgrange, Blackrock, Co. Dublin
    €450,000 | 29/09/15 | Semi-Detached House | 3 Bedrooms | 2 Bathrooms

    Yeh. But it's still a modest house. A council house. A workers house.

    What you've proven is that a decent house is not affordable.


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    #144
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    mariaalice wrote: »
    No I pass an old council estate in Deans grange on the way to work and one is for sale I looked it up and its for sale for a huge amount of money lots are purchased by architect types and done up.

    Ok, but what's that got to do with the poster? They bought the house before the recession. They didn't say they were in trouble with the mortgage or that they cant afford it, they just intimated that money is tight.


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    #145
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    God almighty. Apparently it's now privileged to want to own a modest house in the city you work in.

    Yes, its a crazy and unrealistic expectation for many. But Irish people are just late to this reality of modern cities, that much of the rest of the world found out decades ago.


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    #146
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Wonder if it was always relatively thus, for instance in 1970 would you need to be on an execs salary to buy a house in Beaumount or whatever?

    No. Of course not. We had 80% house ownership. Bus drivers could buy those houses.


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    #147
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Yes, its a crazy and unrealistic expectation for many. But Irish people are just late to this reality of modern cities, that much of the rest of the world found out decades ago.

    London was cheap "decades ago". Berlin is still cheap.

    Dublins a small little city.


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    #148
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    But the way a decent life is not one with a 3 hour daily commute so you can have a bit of money left over, rather than none.


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    #149
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #150
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    A single person does not especially need a 3 or 4 bedroom house in the suburbs. If he/she is planning a family in the near future, then it's OK.

    A single person could live comfortably in a one or two bedroom apartment or shared accommodation... just like on the Continent or USA.


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    #151
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    yup i will agree building regulations are also contributing to this problem but its well documented that free market policies are a bust. a great article by david mcwilliams on this subject matter:

    http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2016/12/19/coveney-needs-courage-to-let-go-of-market-will-fix-it-chestnut


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