DARTs and Trains just permanently late now?

L1011

Buses in the car park and a very full enterprise waiting room currently

skeogh82

goingnowhere wrote: »

To be fair the last three incidents have not been as a result of any failure by Irish Rail

1. Thursday, person threatening self harm, Salthill (same individual as Glasthule a month ago I'm told) further incident with 52 minute delay as it took 50+ minutes to get an ambulance on site at Dun Laoghaire that evening
2. Friday, fatality Sydney Parade
3. Monday fatality Raheny

I'd be pointing the Gardai and emergency services who cannot seem to deal with incidents in the same prompt fashion as we see elsewhere, London being a good example where the services can get back running quickly but process is followed and circumstances dealt with the level of professionalism and dignity appropriate.

Dublin and indeed Ireland is not prepared at all for a major incident and this just proves it.

Poor drivers of both trains most likely found themselves under arrest, or at least down the station. Wouldn't happen elsewhere

Irish rail are not responsible for the incident but they are responsible for their reaction to it - it seems today is better than Friday where there are trains running on at least part of the network. But I still believe there needs to be a major review on how these situations should be managed - in conjunction with the Gardai - determine best practice etc.

If that really is the treatment of the train drivers by the Garda's that is shocking. I can understand being required to provide a statement but you imply they are half accused of something...shocking

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

goingnowhere

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its happened and there is immediate hassle as a drug/alcohol screening is required

quad_red

skeogh82 wrote: »

Irish rail are not responsible for the incident but they are responsible for their reaction to it - it seems today is better than Friday where there are trains running on at least part of the network. But I still believe there needs to be a major review on how these situations should be managed - in conjunction with the Gardai - determine best practice etc.

If that really is the treatment of the train drivers by the Garda's that is shocking. I can understand being required to provide a statement but you imply they are half accused of something...shocking

This - the main rail line for the entire north side of the city, county and country is now down two hours with no indications of when service will be restored.

This is crazy and doesn't happen in other countries like this. Ask IrishRail about it on twitter and you get virtuous keyboard warriors telling you to get your priorities right as if you're asking for updates on when you can hit the pub. Both myself and my wife work. We have kids in childcare. We have elderly parents. I wish I could get on a bike and cycle it but it's too far. I wish I was able to afford to live closer to where I work but I can't.

Of course a proper investigation has to happen. But the extent of the tragedy of a case does not mean it's ok to shut vital transport links down that people desperately depend on indefinitely.

If this is going to happen (tragically) with increasing frequency then the authorities need to plan around that and improve their response times. That's not seeking to minimise it, it's just bloody reality!

The Irish rail service to north county dublin has got progressively worse since we moved there in 2013. Sure the timetables are an utter joke.

XPS_Zero

skeogh82 wrote: »

Surely someone must be able to stop this - how does it make any sense to give away your contingency plans - are the government encourging this - I suppose our current minister for transport couldn't give a toss...

The one thing that seems to be missing in Irish transport planning is actually a customer advocacy group so that the really important things are not missed.

They are only going to have to CPO half this land back later anyway it's absurd what they are doing. What they should do is have a panel of Public transport users randomly selected from those who hold seasonal or taxsaver tickets with IDs, take 1 from Bus Eireann, 1 from DART/SUBURBAN 1 FROM LUAS 1 FROM INTERCITY 1 FROM DUBLIN BUS and have them form a PT Users Panel the minister must meet with every quarter with a term of office the same as the transport minister so they can keep him in line. Have them chaired by a TD maybe and give them the same powers to question and summon him as an Oireachtas Committee, and allow them to refer issues directly to the full cabinet if they don't feel the minister is hearing them out.

Kh1993

quad_red wrote: »

virtuous keyboard warriors

The level of discourse..

One only has to go to twitter to see people tweeting Irish Rail 'cnut' and other various abuse, and then there's the "selfish idiot" type of tweets about a fatality.
The Emergency services and ESB have shut the power lines down, so I'm sure its not as cut and dry as remove the body in a record 50 minutes like some want. It will be done with respect and take as long as it has to. Unfortunately, it will delay and discommode people. That's life. Or reality as has been mentioned above.

I'll be two hours late getting home more than likely. But that's life. I wouldn't want an incident like this rushed as just another recovery job. It's no ones fault, not Irish Rail's (unless you're criticising communication/bus provision), emergency services or the ESB. Sometimes things like this happen. Try solve the underlying problems of course (prevention)

XPS_Zero

[I ended up going on a rant here and it's kinda off topic but I decided to post it up anyway my eyes just glazed over and my hands typed what was going through my head, hopefully it will give some people an insight into this topic beyond the image of someone jumping in front of a train]

When one has contemplated (and attempted) suicide oneself (through far cleaner means), I have to tell you it's a very strange feeling when you see someone else do it.

On the one hand you understand in a way that nobody else can. You know peoples reactions to suicide and attempts often compound the problem rather than helping it (the stupid 'selfishness' debate/argument; the doubt 'if they REALLY wanted to kill themselves they'd...; the myths 'nobody who talks about doing it really does it'). You then see the other people sounding so compassionate and horrified and eager to help but that's not how they react in real life when it's their own friends who have mental illness, because they might not recognize it as mental illness at first, might just dismiss it as annoying personality traits, or if they do recognize it, can't handle it as it burns them out.
People can mean well and still treat their friends with suicidal ideation like crap. Then we have a medical and (esp) pharmaceutical staff in Ireland who are very cold and lacking in empathy and a chronic lack of mental health services. If your car goes out of control and crashes into a wall there will be a team of medics to take you to an A&E with state of the art equipment and a full multi-disciplinary team who will move heaven and earth to save your life. Nobody will ask you for money.

If you are on the edge of a cliff and suicidal you better have €1-200 and a few weeks to wait before your appointment, nothing faster unless you are a threat to others. You know all this, and you know what they are going through. The sex drive and the survival drive are the two most powerful impulses built into our genetic code, you will, if you have to, rip someones throat out with your bare teeth if that is what it takes to survive in a fight to the death with them, so think about how much turmoil one has to be in to override that instinct and desire self destruction

On the other hand you know that staying and fighting can work and that just compounds the tragedy for you, as (so far) living proof that sticking it out can be worth it (though much harder than people who have not gone through this can imagine). Having a closer relationship with death sharpens your focus, makes you realize what is and is not important. You wonder if that person had gotten some kind of help could they have been salvaged? The worst part is knowing what was going though their minds in the last minute or so - relief, not horror or fear. My friends will be better off, my family will be better off, they'll have this big weight taken off them, not sucking the energy out of them like before. My pain will be over. I'm going to cause this poor driver pain, but he'll know it's not his fault , that I did this to myself. They'll have to appear upset but I KNOW deep down , though it won't be polite for them to admit it, what they'll really fear is relief, and they'll get on with their lives.

I don't see evidence of an afterlife but times like this I hope there is something, so this person can experience more than just pain in their existence. I'd appeal to all of you who have a friend in your group whos always a but more emotional or easily hurt or always depressed, (if its true) give them some sign that you care about them and would miss them if anything happened to them (without directly saying it necessarily). It's a really really horrible feeling being theoretically in a big group and yet knowing as you plan your way out that they'll barely notice you are gone and if they do it will be relief, not sadness.

Pawwed Rig

Just walked by station. Still sealed off. If you haven't made alternative arrangements I would do so.

quad_red

Kh1993 wrote: »

The level of discourse..

One only has to go to twitter to see people tweeting Irish Rail 'cnut' and other various abuse, and then there's the "selfish idiot" type of tweets about a fatality.
The Emergency services and ESB have shut the power lines down, so I'm sure its not as cut and dry as remove the body in a record 50 minutes like some want. It will be done with respect and take as long as it has to. Unfortunately, it will delay and discommode people. That's life. Or reality as has been mentioned above.

I'll be two hours late getting home more than likely. But that's life. I wouldn't want an incident like this rushed as just another recovery job. It's no ones fault, not Irish Rail's (unless you're criticising communication/bus provision), emergency services or the ESB. Sometimes things like this happen. Try solve the underlying problems of course (prevention)

I'm not sure what you're indicating there. I wouldn't excuse anyone using that sort of language in any situation and certainly not in the case of a suicide. And of course prevention has to be looked at.

I know a good few people who witnessed someone jump in front a train at a station a few weeks and they are still affected by it. It is a life changing event for all those concerned.

But the response by the authorities seems to be part of the chronic inefficiency and lateness Irish rail operate with. All northbound services are now down some three hours and there's little hope of them reopening before seven pm.

Maybe if it was a service that seemed to value punctuality and efficiency at other times you would assume the best here but those concepts seem alien/irrelevant to Irish Rail.

Kh1993

quad_red wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're indicating there. I wouldn't excuse anyone using that sort of language in any situation and certainly not in the case of a suicide. And of course prevention has to be looked at.

I know a good few people who witnessed someone jump in front a train at a station a few weeks and they are still affected by it. It is a life changing event for all those concerned.

But the response by the authorities seems to be part of the chronic inefficiency and lateness Irish rail operate with. All northbound services are now down some three hours and there's little hope of them reopening before seven pm.

Maybe if it was a service that seemed to value punctuality and efficiency at other times you would assume the best here but those concepts seem alien/irrelevant to Irish Rail.

I value life over everything else, including punctuality and efficiency. Giving out at Irish rail is absolutely pointless. Someone has died, what on earth do you want them to do?

The level of discourse comment was about you coming on to call people virtuous keyboard warriors. The ESB and emergency services response has nothing to do with them.

I'm not exactly sure what you want. A scene cleared up in record time? There's a time and a place to give out to Irish Rail. It certainly isn't now and this time around.

devnull

quad_red wrote: »

Maybe if it was a service that seemed to value punctuality and efficiency at other times you would assume the best here but those concepts seem alien/irrelevant to Irish Rail.

From my point of view that is a key point.

Of course these things happen and Irish Rail cannot be blamed for the fact that someone has been hit by a train, but part of the reason Irish Rail gets so little goodwill from passengers is because of the fact that they generally handle delays and disruption very badly and lack of information have been common problems for years, especially for those of us who take early morning trains or those late evenings or at weekends.

Having been caught up in these situations before, people generally are angry and frustrated not because of this event per se, but the combined annoyance and frustration of the service as a whole. Of course it is not acceptable to abuse staff or swear on social media at Irish Rail regardless, that goes without saying but it does explain why some passengers are frustrated.

Marty Bird

goingnowhere wrote: »

If we take Friday events, incident occurred at Sydney Parade, crossovers would be of no use at all as they were too close to the incident

If we take Thursday evenings events, the crossovers would have been of some use but the juice would be off between Dun Laoghaire and Booterstown, the existing reversible signalling between Lansdowne and Booterstown could run a 15 minute frequency no problem.

The biggest problem is the trailing crossover south of Dun Laoghaire removed 7 years ago

What benefit to the service would it have if that was still in place? it was a turn back from the UP platform in DL only for anything else you can shunt around within DL station.

goingnowhere

Marty Bird wrote: »

What benefit to the service would it have if that was still in place? it was a turn back from the UP platform in DL only for anything else you can shunt around within DL station.

If anything goes wrong north of Dun Laoghaire the juice is off, so you can't shunt the train around.

The crossover allowed trains to arrive from Bray and depart back to Bray from platform 1 with the entire north part of the station closed down, e.g the issue on Thursday evening

Marty Bird

goingnowhere wrote: »

If anything goes wrong north of Dun Laoghaire the juice is off, so you can't shunt the train around.

The crossover allowed trains to arrive from Bray and depart back to Bray from platform 1 with the entire north part of the station closed down, e.g the issue on Thursday evening

But that would all depend what section it was when the electricity gets turned off you can have incidents were it will affect the NB platform too.

goingnowhere

Marty Bird wrote: »

But that would all depend what section it was when the electricity gets turned off you can have incidents were it will affect the NB platform too.

The electrical isolation is 50m north of the platform ends so unless the incident is in Dun Laoghaire it works

Marty Bird

If you look the last 2 incidents in Sandycove and SP having those points would not have made a difference.

Infini

There was a broken down Dart at Lansdowne though for nearly an hour 30m or so after that fatality at Raheny. If they still had the booterstown crossover it makes it viable to run around broken down trains with less disruption. At one point the only trains running were Maynooth/Kildare services as they were not affected. This is why you have redundancy it wont work if its the whole line closed but for failed sets it allows runarounds that we dont have on the southside atm.

goingnowhere

Marty Bird wrote: »

If you look the last 2 incidents in Sandycove and SP having those points would not have made a difference.

For Salthill it would have worked as Bray Dun Laoghaire could be maintained

For Sydney Parade, not required, as service Bray Blackrock could have been possible

Marty Bird

goingnowhere wrote: »

For Salthill it would have worked as Bray Dun Laoghaire could be maintained

For Sydney Parade, not required, as service Bray Blackrock could have been possible

But the line between Bootertown and DL was closed at the request of Gardai so that wouldn’t have made any difference. Bray/Blackrock ? How can trains turn back from Blackrock?

tabbey

skeogh82 wrote: »

who's great idea was it to block off the third platform in GCD so that it could only be used for terminating trains from pearse rather than an additional platform in cases of emergency

The middle platform in GCD is a dead end, only accessible to / from Pearse station. It cannot be used for trains coming from or going to, Lansdowne Road.

skeogh82

tabbey wrote: »

The middle platform in GCD is a dead end, only accessible to / from Pearse station. It cannot be used for trains coming from or going to, Lansdowne Road.

It is currently a dead end but it wasn't always - originally northbound trains used it. When they opened the new line through the Phoenix park tunnel they made it a dead end - to be honest I don't know why - it reduces their capacity to alter services when things go wrong.

Infini

Think it was something with the signal system but I agree I found it odd they turned platform 2 into a turnback instead of keeping the old setup or changing it to a Y set of points onto the Up and Downroads to allow bypasses when the platform wasnt occupied.

techdiver

Day after day the 5.05pm Connolly to Sligo to left sitting for 20-25 minutes in Maynooth because the 3pm Sligo to Connolly is constantly late and there is no crossing points between Maynooth and Enfield!

They have ignored this for 3 years without making a single change to improve things!

****ing infuriating!

Hollister11

My 10:37 DART at Clongriffin didn't arrive until 10:50.

My 15:54 DART from Connolly didn't arrive until 16:00

People wouldn't mind if it was an exception, but its usually the norm.

tabbey

techdiver wrote: »

Day after day the 5.05pm Connolly to Sligo to left sitting for 20-25 minutes in Maynooth because the 3pm Sligo to Connolly is constantly late

The question must be asked why the up train is constantly late.

A frequent srevice on a single line can only work with disciplined operation, otherwise everything runs late.

In the Netherlands, on a single track line (very few), I was on a train which paused at a passing loop, for only about a minute, before the opposite train passed and we moved again. That is how to run a railway.

last time I travelled to Sligo, on a morning train, we were held at Boyle for over 10 minutes, waiting for an up train. From time to time there will be delays, either due to engineering works, mechanical failure or unusual events. If this is a regular occurrence, someone needs to get the finger out and crack the whip.

Jem72

Effectively there is no crossing point between Killucan and Mullingar unless Enfield is not treated as a stop for one of the trains. This is because only one platform at Enfield is usable since there is no bridge and one platform is decayed past the point of usability.

Fixing this situation by either moving the crossing out of the station or by building a bridge would do a lot to improve the robustness of the Sligo timetable.

I've noticed over the last few years that the ability of trains to recover time has declined dramatically. There used to be a time when trains could hit 70 or 80 mph on straight stretches but this rarely seems to happen nowadays.

devnull

The NTA have published the performance report for Q2 of all Irish rail services
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Q2_2017_Iarnrod_Eireann_Performance_Report.pdf

It's broken down by route and AM/PM peak and off-peak.

Noteable that the DART is at 76.3% in PM peak year to date and Maynooth, the only lower line is 75.7%

quad_red

devnull wrote: »

The NTA have published the performance report for Q2 of all Irish rail services
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Q2_2017_Iarnrod_Eireann_Performance_Report.pdf

It's broken down by route and AM/PM peak and off-peak.

Noteable that the DART is at 76.3% in PM peak year to date and Maynooth, the only lower line is 75.7%

That's a big drop as well. Down 13.7%. Maynooth is down 14.3%.

Northern commuter is down 9.1% in AM peak and 5% in PM peak.

Atlantic Dawn

devnull wrote: »

Noteable that the DART is at 76.3% in PM peak year to date and Maynooth, the only lower line is 75.7%

Would that be worst ever performance for DART?