DARTs and Trains just permanently late now?

Infini · 17-11-2017 7:49pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Some of the comments on Twitter to Irish Rail are horrific. Guy jumped out in front of the DART and a lot of replies with 'so? it's not my problem, my service is late.'

Welcome to cancer media: where some self entitles pricks seem to think the whole world revolves only around them and can throw all the abuse they like just because theyre internet tough guys.

Hilly Bill · 17-11-2017 8:19pm

Infini wrote: »

Welcome to cancer media: where some self entitles pricks seem to think the whole world revolves only around them and can throw all the abuse they like just because theyre internet tough guys.

I get that abuse every day.. I've been spat at, threatened, told that they hoped i died of cancer, lied about but those are just the unreasonable people that you can't win with no matter what you say to them.
I can understand people's anger and frustration at delays and i sympathy with them but there is no need to be a dick to the first staff member you see especially if you have been informed as to what what has happened..
99% of passengers are sound even when complaining but there is always that 1 person that takes it a step too far.

XPS_Zero · 17-11-2017 9:37pm

end of the road wrote: »

complete dregs of society. no other description good enough for them. they deserve their service to be delaid for showing such disrespect and contempt.

There was an incident where a guy was on a bridge threatening to jump near Loughlinstown hospital a while back. Now in actuality those of us familiar with the case knew he was an utter prat who threatens to kill himself whenever he gets caught doing something by the cops, but most had no idea of this and were saying all kinds of horrific stuff. I hear it in pubs about people who have actually already killed themselves, the lack of empathy and judgement is amazing to me.
I've noticed it's definitely a trait particularly bad in Irish culture: judging people, its not as bad with others I see a really intense element of it with us though we love judging people I've encountered some really hurtful examples of it in my own life.

Now add to that trait what I call keyboard warrior syndrome where someone does that judgement from behind an anonymous internet account, oh people are so brave on there, and they always know it all and have you figured out 1000% even though they know jack about you or the situation they're casting judgement on.

What they need is a clear practiced and trained for protocol for this situation just like the Tube has in London, I was watching the documentary on the Tube upgrades a few years ago and they have even a fatal incident cleared up with operations resuming within half an hour, one of the crew said "it's horrific but the reality is the world has to go on".

The time issue is probably that existing protocols may (I'm speculating) treat this the same as say an RTC on the M50, securing the scene, cops arriving etc, when it should be treated different, cops and medics should arrive, photograph the scene bag the evidence take the patient away (or body/body parts away) then do their interviews while services start to resume.

tabbey · 18-11-2017 12:31pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

What they need is a clear practiced and trained for protocol for this situation just like the Tube has in London, I was watching the documentary on the Tube upgrades a few years ago and they have even a fatal incident cleared up with operations resuming within half an hour, one of the crew said "it's horrific but the reality is the world has to go on".

The time issue is probably that existing protocols may (I'm speculating) treat this the same as say an RTC on the M50, securing the scene, cops arriving etc, when it should be treated different, cops and medics should arrive, photograph the scene bag the evidence take the patient away (or body/body parts away) then do their interviews while services start to resume.

I worked on London Underground nearly forty years ago.

At that time staff were (unofficially) given a bonus for quickly removing the remains and restoring public service.
In Ireland we tend to take a more relaxed attitude - "sure it'll be grand", and in recent years the Gardai have adopted a policy of closing everything - road or rail,for extended periods, while the scene is forensically examined.
We cannot restore the life of the unfortunate victim of the incident, and suspending services for lengthy periods can only add to the stress of individuals already under pressure. Among the thousands of people delayed are a small number who have been told "if you are late again, don't bother coming back to work", or "if you stand me up again, our relationship is finished". Some of these are liable to become victims of the next incident.

I recall one day about 1979, at lunchtime there were three incidents in less than an hour on the Central line. I have little doubt that the second and third incidents were as a result of delays from the first.

Rather than slavishly following protocol at all costs, consideration should be given to the risks of cause and effect.

kingshankly · 18-11-2017 10:25pm

The last figure I heard for London Underground for resuming after a fatality is 28 minutes(average)
Problem her guards take over and close the line and Irish Rail are powerless

Neon_Lights · 18-11-2017 10:28pm

We're sorry to announce that the *insert time here* service from *insert place here* to *insert place here* is delayed by approximately *insert minutes here* due to *insert bull plop reason here*

Rashers72 · 19-11-2017 10:36am

Heuston to Cork trains, more towards Heuston seem to have suffered serious delays yesterday (Sat). 2 hour delays in the morning (after 10am) due to a train failure. Some ended up as last minute bus transfers. Strange thing was there were still 1 hour delays for trains arriving 8pm. Wonder was it multiple issues, or just 1 major one. Twitter full of complaints about limited communication, but as Twitter not manned @ weekends, limited responses.

Marty Bird · 19-11-2017 1:33pm

skeogh82 wrote: »

Of course no train can move but trains can go to and from the stations before and after...I would love to know what other countries do in this situation because shutting down essentially the whole line for an incident at one station just is bad management imo

The problem with trains going to and from the stations before and after Sydney Parade is down to no infrastructure for turning trains back from Sandymount/Booterstown so you can turn back NB at LR and SB trains at Dun Laoghaire.

Infini · 19-11-2017 2:20pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

The problem with trains going to and from the stations before and after Sydney Parade is down to no infrastructure for turning trains back from Sandymount/Booterstown so you can turn back NB at LR and SB trains at Dun Laoghaire.

The whole section from Lansdowne to Salthill has no crossovers whatsoever. There was a crossover at boostersdown until a few years ago when they just decided to remove them. Stupid really to have no crossovers on such a large section.

Marty Bird · 19-11-2017 4:54pm

Infini wrote: »

The whole section from Lansdowne to Salthill has no crossovers whatsoever. There was a crossover at boostersdown until a few years ago when they just decided to remove them. Stupid really to have no crossovers on such a large section.

I’d say that would be down to rationalisation how many times would the crossovers need to be used over the last number of years? Plus the signals on the reversible working section between DL and bootertown going NB on the SB line is only 1 signal so only 1 train can be in the section the next train would have to wait in DL until the first train clears the section which is silly really.

XPS_Zero · 19-11-2017 5:20pm

I don't know anything (anything..) about rail operations so forgive my ignorance if this is an obvious answer type of question but surely a crossover costs nothing to operate and not much to install so why on earth would you REMOVE one? Surely more the better as it gives you more options and unlike Luas they don't have to rip up a section of street to install them.
This topic is really starting to annoy the hell out of me. I had a trip perfectly timed today so I'd have enough time to go to O'Brians and have a sandwich and drink before a long journey without having to eat at high speed, but the train due at 10:15 said, when I came to the steps at 10:11 said "20 minutes" on the monitor, I got back at just past half and it said "11 minutes", now granted I only got a C in maths but ffsake...
What is causing this? I notice south of Connoly the Rosslare train seems to make a zooming appearance often enough when a DART is late is that what it is? Is it poor signaling and they have to slow or stop for safety? (if so is that new signaling project and new CTC finished yet?). It's not just a little late the timetable is starting to bare no resemble to reality and that's actually kind of embarrassing.

GM228 · 19-11-2017 5:40pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I don't know anything (anything..) about rail operations so forgive my ignorance if this is an obvious answer type of question but surely a crossover costs nothing to operate and not much to install so why on earth would you REMOVE one?

They cost between €100,000-€200,000 to install depending on dimensions etc and each switch costs circa €20,000 per year to maintain.

Infini · 19-11-2017 6:14pm

GM228 wrote: »

They cost between €100,000-€200,000 to install depending on dimensions etc and each switch costs circa €20,000 per year to maintain.

May cost a faid few bob but honestly in a company budget that can be peanuts. Fact tho is there have been a few issues the last few years and if if they have a breakdown somewhere along that section even with reversible working that section can take 10m to traverse. That section without any crossover is far too big to not have one or 2 in between. If they had an extra 2 crossovers it at least closes the distance to something more reasonable if something happens. Even if they dont get used the whole point in having them is for redundancy or backup purposes. Without em it just makes problems in that section worse.

Marty Bird · 19-11-2017 7:44pm

Infini wrote: »

May cost a faid few bob but honestly in a company budget that can be peanuts. Fact tho is there have been a few issues the last few years and if if they have a breakdown somewhere along that section even with reversible working that section can take 10m to traverse. That section without any crossover is far too big to not have one or 2 in between. If they had an extra 2 crossovers it at least closes the distance to something more reasonable if something happens. Even if they dont get used the whole point in having them is for redundancy or backup purposes. Without em it just makes problems in that section worse.

Even when the crossovers were there it would still be 1 train only between DL and booterstown which is 4 stations so no chance you can run a proper service.€200/€400 grand to install and & €40000 per year to maintain for maybe using 1 or 2 times a year is it worth it?

Infini · 19-11-2017 11:37pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

Even when the crossovers were there it would still be 1 train only between DL and booterstown which is 4 stations so no chance you can run a proper service.€200/€400 grand to install and & €40000 per year to maintain for maybe using 1 or 2 times a year is it worth it?

Difference is trains could at least make it to Booterstown rather than being stuck at DL. Other thing is therr should be another set between Blackrock and Seapoint to reduce the distance further. Fact is its still too large a section atm to have no crossovers. On top of that it should be there for emergencies or to allow trains to overtake failed sets. The money itself for maintinence is small change in a company budget of millions. Problem is people in charge still think of it as a money making buisness instead of an infrastructure.

L1011 · 20-11-2017 9:26am

The post December 9th timetable on the journey planner has the 0555 Sligo arriving 5 mins later in Maynooth and no later in Connolly. Where have they tightened this up I wonder, and do they expect to be able to do it...

gimli2112 · 20-11-2017 9:34am

My Dart home from Pearse has been 5-10 minutes late for months. Travel just as rush hour starts, get to the station and it's Dun Laoghaire, Diesel, Diesel (terminates), Bray and DL. Great scheduling.
That said rail was disrupted Friday, walked straight on a bus and it still took an hour longer than usual getting home.

Pawwed Rig · 20-11-2017 10:46am

gimli2112 wrote: »

My Dart home from Pearse has been 5-10 minutes late for months.

I think that this is the experience of many people. We accept low standards in this country unfortunately whether that be poor transport, shoddy building work, decrepit health services (I could go on).

GM228 · 20-11-2017 12:58pm

L1011 wrote: »

The post December 9th timetable on the journey planner has the 0555 Sligo arriving 5 mins later in Maynooth and no later in Connolly. Where have they tightened this up I wonder, and do they expect to be able to do it...

The major December timetable change is not happening now (other than some minor adjustments) - and it will still be 05:45, not 05:55.

The Sligo currently follows the 07:58 to Bray at a moderate pace and has plenty of time to reach Connolly at the same time even if it left Maynooth 10 minutes later.

goingnowhere · 20-11-2017 1:51pm

Infini wrote: »

Difference is trains could at least make it to Booterstown rather than being stuck at DL. Other thing is therr should be another set between Blackrock and Seapoint to reduce the distance further. Fact is its still too large a section atm to have no crossovers. On top of that it should be there for emergencies or to allow trains to overtake failed sets. The money itself for maintinence is small change in a company budget of millions. Problem is people in charge still think of it as a money making buisness instead of an infrastructure.

If we take Friday events, incident occurred at Sydney Parade, crossovers would be of no use at all as they were too close to the incident

If we take Thursday evenings events, the crossovers would have been of some use but the juice would be off between Dun Laoghaire and Booterstown, the existing reversible signalling between Lansdowne and Booterstown could run a 15 minute frequency no problem.

The biggest problem is the trailing crossover south of Dun Laoghaire removed 7 years ago

cython · 20-11-2017 4:24pm

Further disruption looks to be on the cards this evening, unfortunately (for all concerned, to be clear):

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/932629892512051200

skeogh82 · 20-11-2017 4:34pm

cython wrote: »

Further disruption looks to be on the cards this evening, unfortunately (for all concerned, to be clear):

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/932629892512051200

The question is are services actually running or are they just saying they are....like they were on Friday.

I truly believe this recent spate of incidents requires Irish Rail to do a thorough review of how they manage incidents in general and what funding they require to actually provide a better service when things do go wrong....for example - who's great idea was it to block off the third platform in GCD so that it could only be used for terminating trains from pearse rather than an additional platform in cases of emergency - like when the train broke down in GCD at rush hour

Hollister11 · 20-11-2017 4:34pm

There was an incident on the line at Raheny.

All north bound services are currently suspended.

devnull · 20-11-2017 4:47pm

skeogh82 wrote: »

The question is are services actually running or are they just saying they are....like they were on Friday.

I truly believe this recent spate of incidents requires Irish Rail to do a thorough review of how they manage incidents in general and what funding they require to actually provide a better service when things do go wrong....for example - who's great idea was it to block off the third platform in GCD so that it could only be used for terminating trains from pearse rather than an additional platform in cases of emergency - like when the train broke down in GCD at rush hour

Unfortunately these days CIE see themselves as a property company first and a transport company last, you just have to see the fact that some rail stations are up for rent right now and the fact that they are trying to sell the land that contains sidings that will be lost to the railway forever to know that.

GM228 · 20-11-2017 4:57pm

skeogh82 wrote: »

The question is are services actually running or are they just saying they are....like they were on Friday.

They were running, but a DART has now also failed at Lansdowne blocking the line to Connolly....

Incident at Raheny is a person was struck by a DART. (RIP)

skeogh82 · 20-11-2017 5:09pm

GM228 wrote: »

They were running, but a DART has now also failed at Lansdowne blocking the line to Connolly....

Incident at Raheny is a person was struck by a DART. (RIP)

Another train failure....makes me wonder what is going on with maintenance these days. It's gonna be another fun journey home.

skeogh82 · 20-11-2017 5:11pm

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately these days CIE see themselves as a property company first and a transport company last, you just have to see the fact that some rail stations are up for rent right now and the fact that they are trying to sell the land that contains sidings that will be lost to the railway forever to know that.

Surely someone must be able to stop this - how does it make any sense to give away your contingency plans - are the government encourging this - I suppose our current minister for transport couldn't give a toss...

The one thing that seems to be missing in Irish transport planning is actually a customer advocacy group so that the really important things are not missed.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 20-11-2017 5:25pm

I've given up trying to remember the last time both my in and outbound trains were on time on the same day. It's absolutely ridiculous.

If that's not bad enough, the staff seem to know less about what's going on than passengers - or just don't care. The day after the last strike, I got to the station 3 mins before my usual train to see 25 mins listed on the board. Nothing on the app about delays. The guy behind the counter looked like he was enjoying his nap. A woman stopped a worker walking along the platform to ask if the sign was right. He replied "dunno" without stopping and walked away. It's infuriating. Eventually someone got an update from the IR twitter account, and relayed the message. Is an announcement too much to ask?

For people who say we Irish accept poor service; what can be done in these cases? I don't think emailing complaints will do much good here.

goingnowhere · 20-11-2017 5:37pm

To be fair the last three incidents have not been as a result of any failure by Irish Rail

1. Thursday, person threatening self harm, Salthill (same individual as Glasthule a month ago I'm told) further incident with 52 minute delay as it took 50+ minutes to get an ambulance on site at Dun Laoghaire that evening
2. Friday, fatality Sydney Parade
3. Monday fatality Raheny

I'd be pointing the Gardai and emergency services who cannot seem to deal with incidents in the same prompt fashion as we see elsewhere, London being a good example where the services can get back running quickly but process is followed and circumstances dealt with the level of professionalism and dignity appropriate.

Dublin and indeed Ireland is not prepared at all for a major incident and this just proves it.

Poor drivers of both trains most likely found themselves under arrest, or at least down the station. Wouldn't happen elsewhere

Kh1993 · 20-11-2017 5:45pm

RIP. Was on a train to Raheny in opposition direction. Staff and gardai had everything cordoned off by time we were let off. Electricity off for reasons that's not worth going into detail here.

Irish rail getting hammered on twitter again by (a few) selfish people. Take your time getting home and be thankful of life.

For anyone stuck or trying to get past Malahide, 29a or 15 to donaghmede will get you closest to Howth Jct

DARTs and Trains just permanently late now?

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