DARTs and Trains just permanently late now?

Homesick Alien

Since they've opened the Phoenix park tunnel to trains again evening rush hour trains in Dublin in both directions are almost universally late now. It's got to the point where I don't bother showing up for a train until 3-4 mins after its due to go.

They decided to wedge an extra 4-5 trains per hour in and assume it'll have no effect on the timetable? It's ridiculous.

Why don't they just change the timetable and then at least it won't look like every train is late. Either that or the commuter trains need to spend less time in each station?

thomasj

Homesick Alien wrote: »

Since they've opened the Phoenix park tunnel to trains again evening rush hour trains in Dublin in both directions are almost universally late now. It's got to the point where I don't bother showing up for a train until 3-4 mins after its due to go.

They decided to wedge an extra 4-5 trains per hour in and assume it'll have no effect on the timetable? It's ridiculous.

Why don't they just change the timetable and then at least it won't look like every train is late. Either that or the commuter trains need to spend less time in each station?

Not their only problem with evening services....


https://mobile.twitter.com/Antonmcm/status/817070030324170752

Zebra3

Yep, Maynooth services were crap after the PPT originally opened.

Gave up on it.

Pawwed Rig

My DART arrived on time on Tuesday for the first time in I don't know how long. However it then parked outside Connolly for an extended period so I was still late for work. If I did not have an understanding employer I would have needed to get a parking space in the city centre by now.

The J Stands for Jay

Every day my train is delayed by am empty PPT train going to Grand Canal Dock.

Homesick Alien

McGaggs wrote: »

Every day my train is delayed by am empty PPT train going to Grand Canal Dock.

These seem to be the worst offenders. Nobody on them and delaying all the trains that are packed behind them. I'm not suggesting that people going to Newbridge or Hazelhatch don't deserve a train service but I would be interested to know where people are getting on and off those trains. Do they need to go all the way to GCD?

loyatemu

Homesick Alien wrote: »

These seem to be the worst offenders. Nobody on them and delaying all the trains that are packed behind them. I'm not suggesting that people going to Newbridge or Hazelhatch don't deserve a train service but I would be interested to know where people are getting on and off those trains. Do they need to go all the way to GCD?

they're largely empty going to GCD in the evenings but need to get there for the return journey back to Newbridge. My regular train is being delayed by 5-10 mins every evening by an inbound tunnel service.

A couple of evenings they let it run ahead of the tunnel train so it was on time but this week they've gone back to holding it until the tunnel service has gone through

Wheety

InterCity and commuter trains can be 10 minutes late and still count as being on time, so their stats might say everything is rosy.

FitzElla

The Maynooth evening trains are regularly 10-15 minutes late since the Phoenix park tunnel opened. The punctuality figures that Irish Rail provide to the NTA are a joke - 98.9% Maynooth trains on time! I can't wait to see the performance figures for December.

Homesick Alien

Notice how they've stopped giving excuses now as well. The first couple of weeks there were constant announcements over the tannoy blaming "poor rail conditions", "an earlier fault" etc. Now they're just shrugging their shoulders.

In any case after "swangate" they lost all credibility.

AlanG

Maynooth trains almost always late now and they are packed from 4 until 7 each evening. A lot of people are now getting the newbridge train to Drumcondra as it has lots of empty seats, they then squeeze onto the Maynooth train from there when it finally turns up.

beauf

Docklands trains also.

That said I don't have a problem with the PPT trains. its good there are more trains.

But I have a problem with them spending money on making things already with good frequency like the dart even more frequent and neglecting the problems at Connolly.

Dravokivich

AlanG wrote: »

Maynooth trains almost always late now and they are packed from 4 until 7 each evening. A lot of people are now getting the newbridge train to Drumcondra as it has lots of empty seats, they then squeeze onto the Maynooth train from there when it finally turns up.

So they are causing longer dwell times from themselves.

Yeap, that makes sense.

kc56

loyatemu wrote: »

they're largely empty going to GCD in the evenings but need to get there for the return journey back to Newbridge. My regular train is being delayed by 5-10 mins every evening by an inbound tunnel service.

A couple of evenings they let it run ahead of the tunnel train so it was on time but this week they've gone back to holding it until the tunnel service has gone through

They might be empty going to GCD but the returns especially 1728 is full leaving Connolly with only a few seats available at Drumcondra even allowing for those alighting there. Also these trains have to make connections with Portlaoise trains so they cannot be delayed more than 10mins. Loadings are quite good for a new service.

Thargor

Homesick Alien wrote: »

Notice how they've stopped giving excuses now as well. The first couple of weeks there were constant announcements over the tannoy blaming "poor rail conditions", "an earlier fault" etc. Now they're just shrugging their shoulders.

In any case after "swangate" they lost all credibility.

Whats Swangate?

L1011

Thargor wrote: »

Whats Swangate?

Services were in bits one evening due to swans on the track at Lansdowne Road. They did actually exist, though.

kc56

L1011 wrote: »

Services were in bits one evening due to swans on the track at Lansdowne Road. They did actually exist, though.

A sygnet fault😊

AlanG

Dravokivich wrote: »

So they are causing longer dwell times from themselves.

Yeap, that makes sense.

It does make a lot of sense as the Newbridge train from Tara St just after 5:30 has lots of empty seats. People can travel in comfort to drumcondra. The alternative is packing onto the Maynooth train a few minutes later and being crushed as it sits in Connolly for 10 mins. For people who take this option it halves the amount of time they are crushed on the train as it is usually ok after Ashtown.

Thargor

L1011 wrote: »

Services were in bits one evening due to swans on the track at Lansdowne Road. They did actually exist, though.

kc56 wrote: »

A sygnet fault😊

Ha, I missed my Citylink down to Galway once because there were a couple of baby foxes on the tracks near Pearce.

Homesick Alien

L1011 wrote: »

Services were in bits one evening due to swans on the track at Lansdowne Road. They did actually exist, though.

Oh they existed alright. The farce was that two swans caused a 30 minute delay in services at rush hour. I'm pretty sure if the train had rolled slowly towards them they would have flocked off before impact.

Pawwed Rig

16:39 northbound DART late today. No explanation or annoucment.

trellheim

Could the maynooth train not just skip Docklands then no conflict ?

L1011

trellheim wrote: »

Could the maynooth train not just skip Docklands then no conflict ?

I presume you kean Drumcondra. Hugely popular destination from that line so no; and it'll just move the conflict to Connolly and force them all to use p7.

ChikiChiki

On the 18.37 Pearse to Maynooth now. It's dangerously overcrowded to the extent some couldnt vacate the train at Drumcondra. Also 10 mins late. Is it that difficult to throw an extra carraige on? God forbid there was a signal fault. People would be hospitalised.

This is beyond a ****ing joke. What wrong with us that we put up with this crap.

end of the road

ChikiChiki wrote: »

On the 18.37 Pearse to Maynooth now. It's dangerously overcrowded to the extent some couldnt vacate the train at Drumcondra. Also 10 mins late. Is it that difficult to throw an extra carraige on? God forbid there was a signal fault. People would be hospitalised.

This is beyond a ****ing joke. What wrong with us that we put up with this crap.

i presume this was a 4 car train?
unfortunately with multiple unit operation it is impossible to simply stick 1 carrige onto the train. another multiple unit will need to be added to the existing unit to bring it to double the amount of coaches ((which the maynooth rush hour services would have enough patronage to support) . they should be operated as double units no excuses.

Rashers72

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What wrong with us that we put up with this crap.

Hit the nail on the head. There is no one representing the customer in any interactions, so IE can do whatever they want, with zero accountability. The Dept of Transport, despite millions in subvention on behalf of taxpayers, seek no return on this/ have no oversight on day to day operation, and have the weakest metrics for measuring performance of IE. I have no idea what the NTA do, except the have something to do with Leap cards. While a lot of passengers are not happy with peak services, very few complain, so nothing will change. After 20 years getting the train in and out to town every day, I have seen a significant deterioration in services in the last 3-4 months. And with the leaves excuse now gone, the new daily excuse given is 'congestion'.Yet I have it in writing from IE that the PPT services would not negatively impact all other trains into Connolly. So what is causing all this congestion, if it's not those trains?
I have also noticed a complete change in customer interactions recently from IE staff, especially during delays. Something is not right in the state of Denmark, me thinks. Rant over!

end of the road

Rashers72 wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head. There is no one representing the customer in any interactions, so IE can do whatever they want, with zero accountability. The Dept of Transport, despite millions in subvention on behalf of taxpayers, seek no return on this/ have no oversight on day to day operation, and have the weakest metrics for measuring performance of IE. I have no idea what the NTA do, except the have something to do with Leap cards. While a lot of passengers are not happy with peak services, very few complain, so nothing will change. After 20 years getting the train in and out to town every day, I have seen a significant deterioration in services in the last 3-4 months. And with the leaves excuse now gone, the new daily excuse given is 'congestion'.Yet I have it in writing from IE that the PPT services would not negatively impact all other trains into Connolly. So what is causing all this congestion, if it's not those trains?
I have also noticed a complete change in customer interactions recently from IE staff, especially during delays. Something is not right in the state of Denmark, me thinks. Rant over!

i couldn't agree more with you. the reality is that simply nobody cares about us the user. we don't matter. the NTA don't seem to be enforcing the contracts with the operator and everyone is suffering.

bigredone

I dont get the train that uses the PPT so this is just a guess
The tunnel has been there for years and not used by IE.
Did IE know its use would cause a knock on effect on other services so did no use it.
Was it not the idea of the NTA to use the tunnel.
Was this pushed by the NTA against the wishes of IE, so now IE are sitting back and letting the NTA sort out the problem.

Homesick Alien

They've introduced airport style how-did-we-do buttons in some stations now. Hilariously they're before you go through the turnstiles so unless you've had an interaction through buying a ticket they're irrelevant. If they put them on the other side of the turnstiles for exiting passengers that would be a different story!

trellheim

I dont get the train that uses the PPT so this is just a guess
The tunnel has been there for years and not used by IE.
Did IE know its use would cause a knock on effect on other services so did no use it.
Was it not the idea of the NTA to use the tunnel.
Was this pushed by the NTA against the wishes of IE, so now IE are sitting back and letting the NTA sort out the problem.

Timetabling committee or whatever should have gone through headways and dwell times based on the resignalled core ; Appreciate feedback from anyone close to the issue here

Hollister11

I get the DART to and from college during the week. It's on time for the most part in the morning. It's due at 8:14, and is always there at that time. If it's late it's due to a truck driving into a bridge at a preceding station. Coming home, the DART is due at 17:24. It's never there at that time. It's always at least arriving at 17:28, but usually 32/33.

It would be great if they could start the schedules again from the ground up. Hire a couple of data scientists and generate the best possible time for train and DARTS, and crucially ensure the schedules are stuck too.

ChikiChiki

bigredone wrote: »

I dont get the train that uses the PPT so this is just a guess
The tunnel has been there for years and not used by IE.
Did IE know its use would cause a knock on effect on other services so did no use it.
Was it not the idea of the NTA to use the tunnel.
Was this pushed by the NTA against the wishes of IE, so now IE are sitting back and letting the NTA sort out the problem.

I think they are so incompetent they just thought they could run trains through it without any consideration of operational impact. That in itself is a dinosaur mindset and shows up the calibre of some of the people involved in this project at a time when all the technology & skilled resources are available to map transit to the second. Can anyone tell me if the timetables for the departing services from Newbridge changed with the roll out of PPT? If not then that's part of the problem right there.

These delays are affecting thousands of people daily.

I get the train from Sallins to Pearse return everyday. It's always on time in Sallins but usually 5 - 7 mins late from Pearse.
Am in awe of the people who have to get the Maynooth train before mine from Pearse in the evenings. They need extra station staff like they have in China to squeeze everyone into the carriages.

I used to get Bus Eireann from Naas to Dublin return daily. That service was anything from 20mins to 50mins late all the time, everyday! In comparison IE is super efficient.

loyatemu

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I think they are so incompetent they just thought they could run trains through it without any consideration of operational impact. That in itself is a dinosaur mindset and shows up the calibre of some of the people involved in this project at a time when all the technology & skilled resources are available to map transit to the second. Can anyone tell me if the timetables for the departing services from Newbridge changed with the roll out of PPT? If not then that's part of the problem right there.

These delays are affecting thousands of people daily.

the new services were slotted into the existing timetable (with only very minor changes). A full timetable revision is required - perhaps IÉ are holding off on this until they have agreement on the 10 minutes DART service.

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

the new services were slotted into the existing timetable (with only very minor changes). A full timetable revision is required - perhaps IÉ are holding off on this until they have agreement on the 10 minutes DART service.

I have been on the Dart the other day that appeared to stop for a while at places where it should not - like between Bayside and Sutton where there were no trains ahead of us. It stopped before GCD as well, again for no apparent reason. It was running about five minutes late - (mid afternoon).

Also, why do they run eight coach sets which are, at most, about 10% full? [This is outside the rush hours of morning and evening].

Four car sets would be still quite empty. In the late evening there might be 10 people on the whole 8 car train. During the Christmas break, they ran four coach sets with no problems.

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have been on the Dart the other day that appeared to stop for a while at places where it should not - like between Bayside and Sutton where there were no trains ahead of us. It stopped before GCD as well, again for no apparent reason. It was running about five minutes late - (mid afternoon).

Also, why do they run eight coach sets which are, at most, about 10% full? [This is outside the rush hours of morning and evening].

Four car sets would be still quite empty. In the late evening there might be 10 people on the whole 8 car train. During the Christmas break, they ran four coach sets with no problems.

I guess it's not worth their while splitting the sets after the morning rush only to have to reassemble them for the evening rush.

Jamie2k9

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I think they are so incompetent they just thought they could run trains through it without any consideration of operational impact. That in itself is a dinosaur mindset and shows up the calibre of some of the people involved in this project at a time when all the technology & skilled resources are available to map transit to the second. Can anyone tell me if the timetables for the departing services from Newbridge changed with the roll out of PPT? If not then that's part of the problem right there.

These delays are affecting thousands of people daily.

IE didn't want to run any scheduled services via the PPT, it was Leo V who pushed it through.

There was minor changes to Heuston services but all scheduling problems are late running DARTS.

markpb

bigredone wrote: »

The tunnel has been there for years and not used by IE.
Did IE know its use would cause a knock on effect on other services so did no use it.
Was it not the idea of the NTA to use the tunnel.
Was this pushed by the NTA against the wishes of IE, so now IE are sitting back and letting the NTA sort out the problem.

It must be a terrible imposition to ask a railway operator to put trains on a railway. Thank god IE saved us from years of their inability to network three lines together.

Pawwed Rig

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

16:39 northbound DART late today. No explanation or annoucment.

Late again today. No explanation or announcement.
PA on train announcing wrong stations.

Jem72

I've noticed a big improvement on Longford commuter although I've only travelled twice so far since the break. Gone from 15 to 20 minutes late back to less than 5 both trains both days.

This would appear to be the normal pattern for previous years. Really woeful performance in November and December and everything back to normal in January.

bikeman1

18:30 Greystones Howth, ran 8 minutes late last night, similar again this evening. Knock on delays presumably from the evening run out of Dublin to Greystones. This leaves a 23 minute gap in service at 19:00 on a midweek evening.

Rashers72

Jem72 wrote: »

I've noticed a big improvement on Longford commuter although I've only travelled twice so far since the break. Gone from 15 to 20 minutes late back to less than 5 both trains both days.
This would appear to be the normal pattern for previous years. Really woeful performance in November and December and everything back to normal in January.

For years that line was effected by the leaves on the track every single year for those 2 months. It will be the same again in 2017/8/9 etc.
Also most Longford trains terminate at either Connolly or Pearse so impact of new PPT services is minimised. The real problems are impacting the DARTS and Drogheda trains, as once the DART is delayed, the Drogheda train has to sit behind it for the 9 stations to Malahide for example. And despite local developers building and installing a passing loop at Clongriffin IE refuse to use it during service delays, just adding to our woes.

trellheim

As you say. Can the drogheda not be let in front at the loops at Connolly and Clongriffin

end of the road

trellheim wrote: »

As you say. Can the drogheda not be let in front at the loops at Connolly and Clongriffin

that is probably what should happen, but the policy is dart gets priority over everything. that was absolutely fine in 1984 but it doesn't meet the requirements of todays railway.

lucernarian

Homesick Alien wrote: »

They've introduced airport style how-did-we-do buttons in some stations now. Hilariously they're before you go through the turnstiles so unless you've had an interaction through buying a ticket they're irrelevant. If they put them on the other side of the turnstiles for exiting passengers that would be a different story!

Maybe. I guess that's why there's usually a button stand near the top of the stairs leading from platform 6 and 7.

Anyway, surely everyone leaving Connolly station would be able to press it on the way out past the turnstiles? Especially in the morning? Some people might try to use them without having a ticket but I suspect few people are arsed to go to such lengths.

WeleaseWoderick

The Wexford commuter train due to leave Pearse at 17:41 doesn't seem to have been on time once since the Phoenix Park trains started.

I've also noted that it is far more packed in the last 6 months than previously.

loyatemu

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

The Wexford commuter train due to leave Pearse at 17:41 doesn't seem to have been on time once since the Phoenix Park trains started.

I've also noted that it is far more packed in the last 6 months than previously.

there's a PPT train that runs ahead of it that is always at least 5 minutes late. It's busier because many of the people showing up for the 1745 dart (passengers for Dun Laoghaire and Bray) are hopping on the commuter train instead.

Pawwed Rig

17:28 northbound DART late today. No explanation or announcement

Phil.x

The docklands train to m3 at 16:55 is very busy lately (no seats one or two standing), could this be caused by the ppt.

Pawwed Rig

17:28 northbound DART late again today. No explanation or announcement

L1011

Phil.x wrote: »

The docklands train to m3 at 16:55 is very busy lately (no seats one or two standing), could this be caused by the ppt.

No. There is increased employment in its catchment area.