Property Market 2017

OwlsZat

pilly wrote: »

Graham wrote: »

+1

A family member (currently renting) was interested in buying the house next door.  Previous occupants had done a bunk posting the keys back to the bank.  I'd say the property (fairly new) has been empty for 5+ years at this stage but the Court puts the banks application for possession back every time the original owners fail to turn up in court.

Even when banks are granted possession, it can be months/years before the properties are half-heartedly put on the market.

You would wonder how many of the 'vacant homes' are a result of either scenarios....

This is a much bigger problem than we think. I personally know of 3 houses that have been repossessed and the banks are just doing nothing with them.

If anyone should be penalised for not selling houses it's definitely the banks, they have no business holding on to them for profit.

100% they should be. We are in a housing crisis. Obviously those holding up property for profit should be squeezed out. You your not helping, us your against us.

GGTrek

OwlsZat wrote: »

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

OwlsZat wrote: »

When the property market was terrible we invited foreign investors in to have cheap ownership of our property.

Did we?
Investors from any country have always been welcome to own property in Ireland.
What makes you think an invitation was sent?

OwlsZat wrote: »

Now that we need all our own property back we should just make it unattractive for overseas investors to maintain ownership.

What about making it unattractive for domestic investors to maintain ownership?

Is your beef with investors or foreigners?

Ya we did make it attractive. We gave them a tax holiday. Free money. We were exceptionally generous to them.
I assume we only did it because Ireland is so reliant on tax generated from housing.

Them who? Investors or foreigners? If you mean investors you are right. If you mean foreigners you are 100% wrong.

Graham

I think there's a large proportion of the population that don't appreciate the fire-sale circumstances a lot of assets were disposed under at a time when very few were buying.

quadrifoglio verde

Graham wrote: »

I think there's a large proportion of the population that don't appreciate the fire-sale circumstances a lot of assets were disposed under at a time when very few were buying.

Agreed. At the time the cgt exemption was brought in, the market was quite slow with little moving. It helped move a tonne of stuff of nama's portfolio, allowing much needed funds to flow in.
It's not too long ago that many were saying nama was going to be a loss making disaster. Now the same are calling it a disaster because although it will make a healthy profit, that profit could have been higher had they held on longer

The_Conductor

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Now the same are calling it a disaster because although it will make a healthy profit, that profit could have been higher had they held on longer

Vis-a-vis NAMA- keep in mind- the average price they paid for loans was only 57c in the Euro. When you're getting assets at almost half list value- disposing of them just because you can turn a profit- isn't really much of an exercise in how to manage an asset portfolio.........

myshirt

Would people have preferred if Nama hadn't been set up and we just had a run on all our assets?

bilbot79

myshirt wrote: »

Would people have preferred if Nama hadn't been set up and we just had a run on all our assets?

This would have been healthier indeed.

The_Conductor

myshirt wrote: »

Would people have preferred if Nama hadn't been set up and we just had a run on all our assets?

We had a run on our assets- NAMA was only for loans with a value of over 10m and we still had to bail out the banks who transferred these loans into NAMA. The taxpayer got caught every which way on this- and at the end of the day- there is still going to be 40 billion that will never ever be recovered.

We most certainly had a run on our assets- and NAMA had a cheerful firesale.

Just because you can make a couple of pence in the euro more than you got the assets for in the first place- is entirely meaningless- when you factor we still had to bail out the original lenders- and windup the worst offendor of all...........

Looking at NAMA in isolation of what the loans were, how much they paid for them- and how we had to pay top dollar anyway- to bailout Anglo and the other institutions (BOI was the only one who didn't end up in majority state ownership)- is myopic.

However- the flipside of the coin- lots of people are castigating NAMA for not doing something about social housing and providing housing in the Dublin area in general. It quite simply never had these supposed assets- most of its Dublin assets were commercial or office space- not residential units- the vast majority of its residential units- were in the UK- notably in London. When you look at the manner in which the London property market has boomed- and then at what NAMA got for their properties- that is why lots of people are annoyed............

The_Conductor

bilbot79 wrote: »

This would have been healthier indeed.

It would have been different.
Perhaps we could have muddled through- a la Iceland- who are now firmly back in the international financial fold again- despite defaulting on everything. They had a few torrid years too- but through various mechanisms- including sending the Icelandic fishing fleet into Irish waters and hoovering up our mackerel and herring- they are flourishing again.

Lumping the Irish taxpayers with what is now 210 billion of debt- which costs us 7 billion a year to service before we spend a penny on anything else- that is where we are at now.

Its all well and good having a retrospective look at these things.

Defaulting- would have been different- but our government would not countenance it.

myshirt

@theconductor, Do you not think that a dam was opened, water was gushing like no man had seen it, and that Nama was necessary as a tourniquet to stem the flow, cool the cacks, stall the ball, and keep the Irish people in the game.

Capital would have came into this country and bought Ireland for buttons without any accountability or recourse to Government and the Irish people.

Eventually, yes we sold Ireland, but we had control over that process and avoided a right good mugging.

The_Conductor

myshirt wrote: »

Eventually, yes we sold Ireland, but we had control over that process and avoided a right good mugging.

Honestly- we got mugged.
We're kidding ourselves if we try to pretend otherwise.
We're continuing to get mugged on a daily basis.
Varadker is at least acknowledging that the average person walking down the street shouldn't be on a marginal tax rate of over 50% on earnings over 34k- however, hes not in a position to put his money where his mouth is.

Don't know if you saw the ESRI report on Tuesday? Where they suggest increasing the retirement age from a planned 68 to 70 by 2035- as a solution to our pensions time bomb. Google it- it was earlier this week. One hell of a solution- make everyone work until they're past the average mortality age- will definitely cut the government obligation towards tomorrow's pensioners..........

We are being mugged by the day- we're just choosing not to acknowledge it.

Peter File

The_Conductor wrote: »

Honestly- we got mugged.
We're kidding ourselves if we try to pretend otherwise.
We're continuing to get mugged on a daily basis.
Varadker is at least acknowledging that the average person walking down the street shouldn't be on a marginal tax rate of over 50% on earnings over 34k- however, hes not in a position to put his money where his mouth is.

Don't know if you saw the ESRI report on Tuesday? Where they suggest increasing the retirement age from a planned 68 to 70 by 2035- as a solution to our pensions time bomb. Google it- it was earlier this week. One hell of a solution- make everyone work until they're past the average mortality age- will definitely cut the government obligation towards tomorrow's pensioners..........

We are being mugged by the day- we're just choosing not to acknowledge it.

so true and so frustrating

OfflerCrocGod

Life expectancy is over 81 years and still increasing. 20 years from now we maybe looking at almost 90 years. Something should be done, more flexibility around retirement age is reasonable.

Personally I don't want to sit on my ass, with limited funds, for 20 years waiting to die.

boris1234

Maybe a stupid question but I presume the rate cuts aib announced yesterday for both variable and fixed customers won't apply to the existing fixed customers?

Just drew down last month and went for a 2 year fixed. They have now dropped that rate from 3.6 to 3.2%. Ah well that's the risk ya take I suppose

The_Conductor

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

Life expectancy is over 81 years and still increasing. 20 years from now we maybe looking at almost 90 years. Something should be done, more flexibility around retirement age is reasonable.

Personally I don't want to sit on my ass, with limited funds, for 20 years waiting to die.

Its 78.5 for men and 83.5 for women- and since 2010 has actually fallen, and is continuing to fall, for both groups, but is still almost 10 years above the EU average.

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its 78.5 for men and 83.5 for women- and since 2010 has actually fallen for both groups, but is still almost 10 years above the EU average.

I didn't know it was the case in Ireland but it is actually (slowly) decreasing in a number of European countries. Quite a worrying trend and well worth investigating.

And yeah pushing retirement are is a big of a joke at some stage. It's not just about life expectancy but also about until what age you can actually be seen as a useful asset for an employer (not to mention human decency).

OfflerCrocGod

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

Life expectancy is over 81 years and still increasing. 20 years from now we maybe looking at almost 90 years. Something should be done, more flexibility around retirement age is reasonable.

Personally I don't want to sit on my ass, with limited funds, for 20 years waiting to die.

You can have flexibility around retirement age while still giving folk the state pension in their mid 60s.

Cyrus

boris1234 wrote: »

Maybe a stupid question but I presume the rate cuts aib announced yesterday for both variable and fixed customers won't apply to the existing fixed customers?

Just drew down last month and went for a 2 year fixed. They have now dropped that rate from 3.6 to 3.2%. Ah well that's the risk ya take I suppose

No it won’t but you might be pleasantly surprised if you ask them what the break fees are out of your current fixed mortgage. Could well be 0 (see threads on askaboutmoney regarding this )

Then refix at the new lower rate

boris1234

Cyrus wrote: »

No it won’t but you might be pleasantly surprised if you ask them what the break fees are out of your current fixed mortgage. Could well be 0 (see threads on askaboutmoney regarding this )

Then refix at the new lower rate

Thanks I'll look into it

OwlsZat

House I was looking at listed at 395k, told today it sold at 467. 
There is also an absolute spat of apartments listed in my building at  borderline ludicrous prices >500k for a 3 bed. The plot has well and truly been lost again.

cronos

OwlsZat wrote: »

House I was looking at listed at 395k, told today it sold at 467. 
There is also an absolute spat of apartments listed in my building at  borderline ludicrous prices >500k for a 3 bed. The plot has well and truly been lost again.

Where was the house out of interest?

Pepe LeFrits

Bob24 wrote: »

I didn't know it was the case in Ireland but it is actually (slowly) decreasing in a number of European countries. Quite a worrying trend and well worth investigating.

I'd be surprised if it was falling anywhere in Europe to be honest - there might be the occasional marginal drop but the trend over the last 10, 20 years and beyond is pretty much universally upwards. If it's otherwise I'd be interested to see. Worldbank has Irish life expectancy increasing year on year and similar in most other European countries.

And yeah pushing retirement are is a big of a joke at some stage. It's not just about life expectancy but also about until what age you can actually be seen as a useful asset for an employer (not to mention human decency).

I dunno, 70 isn't that old anymore. You've got significant numbers now living healthy lives far, far beyond the initial retirement age - which hasn't really changed much despite it originally being way above the average life expectancy. Demographics dictate that something has to give sooner or later. A lot of the existing mandatory retirement ages are looking increasingly dated and I think more flexibility is needed to reflect the sections of the population who can/want to continue to contribute.

Cuddlesworth

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'd be surprised if it was falling anywhere in Europe to be honest - there might be the occasional marginal drop but the trend over the last 10, 20 years and beyond is pretty much universally upwards. If it's otherwise I'd be interested to see. Worldbank has Irish life expectancy increasing year on year and similar in most other European countries.

UK falling
We are due a report this year I guess.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I dunno, 70 isn't that old anymore. You've got significant numbers now living healthy lives far, far beyond the initial retirement age - which hasn't really changed much despite it originally being way above the average life expectancy. Demographics dictate that something has to give sooner or later. A lot of the existing mandatory retirement ages are looking increasingly dated and I think more flexibility is needed to reflect the sections of the population who can/want to continue to contribute.

I can't help but feel like the increasing rate of weight gain will have a obvious effect on life expectancy over the next decade.

pajoguy

My first post in this thread.
Have a 3 bed end of terrace which we are thinking of selling. We rent it out at the moment for 800 pm. Tenants moving out in 6 weeks and we might be looking for 900 even 950 pm. We are accidental landlords. We questioned a local auctioneer a few months ago about the property might achieve and he said around the 170-180 mark. I got a free appraisal today from one of the mainstream auctioneers and they said somewhere between 210 and 220! Mortgage of 223 left. Repayments are 1150. I hate being a landlord and all it entails (including losing around 400pm) and we have been so lucky with great tenants. It is difficult to know what the market is like regionally. Dublin is much easier to guage.

Pepe LeFrits

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

UK falling

What am I missing here?

Period Male - England Female - England Male - Wales Female - Wales
2008–2010 78.50 82.51 77.62 81.78
2009–2011 78.91 82.89 77.95 82.16
2010–2012 79.21 83.01 78.20 82.22
2011–2013 79.41 83.12 78.28 82.29
2012–2014 79.55 83.20 78.51 82.35

OwlsZat

cronos wrote: »

OwlsZat wrote: »

House I was looking at listed at 395k, told today it sold at 467. 
There is also an absolute spat of apartments listed in my building at  borderline ludicrous prices >500k for a 3 bed. The plot has well and truly been lost again.

Where was the house out of interest?

Dublin 9. 
68sq meters-ish.

Cuddlesworth

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

What am I missing here?

Period Male - England Female - England Male - Wales Female - Wales
2008–2010 78.50 82.51 77.62 81.78
2009–2011 78.91 82.89 77.95 82.16
2010–2012 79.21 83.01 78.20 82.22
2011–2013 79.41 83.12 78.28 82.29
2012–2014 79.55 83.20 78.51 82.35

You right, I just grabbed the link off a article. The CSO in the uk released figures showing the the increases in life expectancy of 65+s has stalled hard(very minor increases since 2011). The office of actuary then released a report saying that from that they are projecting decreases in life expectancy. Since there is money behind it, they are usually on point.

UsBus

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You right, I just grabbed the link off a article. The CSO in the uk released figures showing the the increases in life expectancy of 65+s has stalled hard(very minor increases since 2011). The office of actuary then released a report saying that from that they are projecting decreases in life expectancy. Since there is money behind it, they are usually on point.

I thought this was a property thread...??????

OwlsZat

The new KBC 10 year fixed rates look very favorable.

Cuddlesworth

OwlsZat wrote: »

The new KBC 10 year fixed rates look very favorable.

With Ulster offering 2.6 for under 80% for four years?