Property Market 2017

Bob24

cnocbui wrote: »

So how's the housing availability situation in Dublin?

If we are talking well paid staff used to London property prices, I am not worried for them in terms of sorting a place in Dublin (again as I said if we are talking low skill very operational staff it it a different story). It would definitely make it more difficult for some current Dubliners though as it would fuel prices even more.

cnocbui wrote: »

This thread is an an end-to-end unremitting moan about just that topic. Entertainment venues might be a higher priority for employers than accommodation, but I doubt it.

Just one of the things I was listing - maybe not top priority but one argument in favour ofDublin nontheless. International schools which you didn't pick-up is a very big one I think.

cnocbui wrote: »

You do know Limerick has a fairly substantial airport in Shannon?

With about 10 times less traffic than Dublin airport and many less direct international routes, it honestly isn't in the same league at all.

rsynnott

Graham wrote: »

'Move your bank to Limerick, we have foxes and grass' isn't the most compelling sales pitch I've ever heard in fairness. :pac:

There are a surprisingly large number of foxes within easy distance of Capital Dock, anyway. Never seen one actually in the docklands proper, but you'll often see them at night in Ringsend and Ballsbridge just across the canal.

pilly

rsynnott wrote:

There are a surprisingly large number of foxes within easy distance of Capital Dock, anyway. Never seen one actually in the docklands proper, but you'll often see them at night in Ringsend and Ballsbridge just across the canal.

That's not a good thing! They're basically big rodents!

cnocbui

Bob24 wrote: »

If we are talking well paid staff used to London property prices, I am not worried for them in terms of sorting a place in Dublin (again as I said if we are talking low skill very operational staff it it a different story). It would definitely make it more difficult for some current Dubliners though as it would fuel prices even more.

Just one of the things I was listing - maybe not top priority but one argument in favour ofDublin nontheless. International schools which you didn't pick-up is a very big one I think.

With about 10 times less traffic than Dublin airport and many less direct international routes, it honestly isn't in the same league at all.

Of course Shannon isn't as big as Dublin with as much variety of flights, but that would likely improve with demand. Take a peek: http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/passengers/flights/departures.aspx

It's not like you can't get to a wide variety of destinations. With flights to hub airports, you can get to anywhere on Earth.

Setting up an international school would be possible for a large employer. I believe Villiers would probably cover some the requirements anyhow.

A lot of these infrastructure aspects are chicken or the egg arguments. If you spur demand for flights, schools, accommodation, they will happen. Apple In Cork seems to manage, and they probably handle more money than many banks.

I think the infrastructure and amenity shortcomings of regional locations like Limerick are far more easily overcome than the headaches that are accommodation and public transport in Dublin. Everything large corporations required could be provided, because of the innate flexibility. Dublin and it's accommodation and transport problems seem innately inflexible and far less easily or likely to be overcome.

ArnieSilvia

cnocbui wrote:

Speaking of which, for those who can't live without the big city attractions, a multi-seat corporate jet could do a regular weekend run to London's City airport......... Schools are fantastic.

The first bit doesn't even deserve a comment, pure fantasy

The schools in Limerick - last time I worked there, there were 3 years long waiting lists, they might be great but it's irrelevant in context of unavailability.

IMO the housing in Limerick is very expensive for the quality of buildings on offer, amenities and infrastructure available.

Arrival of Regeneron wiped out housing stock along with rental market.

One distinctive difference between Dublin and Limerick is the weather - 80% of time it's​ nicer in Dublin. Talk sun here and cloudy/overcast there.

In regard to City people in Limerick situation - the ones I had contact with, all were bored to death and looking forward to leave

Source: I tried living in Limerick but gave up, not worth it

pilly

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

The first bit doesn't even deserve a comment, pure fantasy

The schools in Limerick - last time I worked there, there were 3 years long waiting lists, they might be great but it's irrelevant in context of unavailability.

IMO the housing in Limerick is very expensive for the quality of buildings on offer, amenities and infrastructure available.

Arrival of Regeneron wiped out housing stock along with rental market.

One distinctive difference between Dublin and Limerick is the weather - 80% of time it's​ nicer in Dublin. Talk sun here and cloudy/overcast there.

In regard to City people in Limerick situation - the ones I had contact with, all were bored to death and looking forward to leave

Source: I tried living in Limerick but gave up, not worth it

You made me think of Angelas Ashes now. I thought it was just me but you're right, weather is worse down here.

rsynnott

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

Arrival of Regeneron wiped out housing stock along with rental market

This sort of thing is a problem in itself; Limerick and the other regional cities are too small to absorb a really big employer at once. If you want to open a 2000 person office in Dublin, you'll get employees. In Limerick you won't get enough locally and there just won't be the accommodation to move them in quickly.

I suspect it's also harder to get high skill employees to move to a regional city, because they become very dependent on the employer; it may be the only one locally which needs their skills. This gives the employer an advantage on salary negotiation etc.

I wouldn't move to Limerick for a job, partially because I've lived in Dublin all my life and like it, and because I'm not a fan of small cities in general, but also because if my employer went bust or I wanted to move, there'd be very limited demand for my skill set compared to in Dublin.

frefrefre

So, will Limerick be more expensive than say Edinburgh or Manchester in 18 months time?!?

The_Conductor

frefrefre wrote: »

So, will Limerick be more expensive than say Edinburgh or Manchester in 18 months time?!?

Some areas of Limerick already are- however, you're always going to have people who will find the idea of living within a few miles of O'Malley Park repugnant, even if the planned regeneration goes ahead.

It depends.

Villa05

frefrefre wrote:

So, will Limerick be more expensive than say Edinburgh or Manchester in 18 months time?!?

Hopefully not, the key to success is competitiveness. High house prices eat into that significantly.

Limerick was named in the top 10 best places to invest along with Dublin a year or 2 ago. Backwater we may be but at least our positive side is being noted internationally

frefrefre

The_Conductor wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

So, will Limerick be more expensive than say Edinburgh or Manchester in 18 months time?!?

Some areas of Limerick already are- however, you're always going to have people who will find the idea of living within a few miles of O'Malley Park repugnant, even if the planned regeneration goes ahead.

It depends.

The best areas in Limerick are nowhere near the prices of Didsbury, Bramhall or the likes in Manchester and if that does happen, we are in full on bubble territory regardless of what the bulls in the property suplements or online tell you.

frefrefre

Villa05 wrote: »

frefrefre wrote:

So, will Limerick be more expensive than say Edinburgh or Manchester in 18 months time?!?

Hopefully not,  the key to success is competitiveness. High house prices eat into that significantly.

Limerick was named in the top 10 best places to invest along with Dublin a year or 2 ago. Backwater we may be but at least our positive side is being noted internationally

Agreed, I'm good pals with a Scottish couple from Glasgow here in the middle east and they can't get over the neuroticism of the Irish housing market when i explain how things have gone over the last 20 years. Theywonder how people get by with such extraordinary prices which are set to explode in urban parts even further with this Brexit lark.
Even if the jobs relocating are minimal, it will be hyped up to the nines and we'll be in piure panic mode. Expect movement on CGT in this years budget too to further exacerbate the issue of price increases. God help the young!

Bob24

I don't assume it will lead to any action, but after the IMF a few days ago it is now apparently the European Commission which is flagging the Irish housing market as a problem: http://blog.myhome.ie/2017/05/17/housing-market-ireland-examined-european-commission/

Graham

frefrefre wrote: »

I'm good pals with a Scottish couple from Glasgow here in the middle east and they can't get over the neuroticism of the Irish housing market when i explain how things have gone over the last 20 years. Theywonder how people get by with such extraordinary prices

Extraordinary compared to what?

The average house price in Glasgow is currently hovering around 210,000 euro. Average house price in Ireland is 230,000.

Find an Irish city comparable to Glasgow and I expect they'll be shocked how expensive Glasgow property is.

jamesthepeach

Graham wrote: »

Extraordinary compared to what?

The average house price in Glasgow is currently hovering around 210,000 euro. Average house price in Ireland is 230,000.

Find an Irish city comparable to Glasgow and I expect they'll be shocked how expensive Glasgow property is.

My parents still live in Edinburgh. If you think Glasgow is expensive, try buy a house in Edinburgh. You'll cry.

Nice and cheap everywhere else though. Because nobody under 50 wants to live anywhere else in Scotland. No jobs anywhere else to speak of either.

Samuel T. Cogley

jamesthepeach wrote: »

My parents still live in Edinburgh. If you think Glasgow is expensive, try buy a house in Edinburgh. You'll cry.

Nice and cheap everywhere else though. Because nobody under 50 wants to live anywhere else in Scotland. No jobs anywhere else to speak of either.

I remember looking at a three bed flat in Edinburgh for £30,000. Oh how times have changed...

TBH I expect it's still for sale given where it was :pac:

frefrefre

Graham wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

I'm good pals with a Scottish couple from Glasgow here in the middle east and they can't get over the neuroticism of the Irish housing market when i explain how things have gone over the last 20 years. Theywonder how people get by with such extraordinary prices

Extraordinary compared to what?  

The average house price in Glasgow is currently hovering around 210,000 euro. Average house price in Ireland is 230,000.

Find an Irish city comparable to Glasgow and I expect they'll be shocked how expensive Glasgow property is.

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow, of course our housing is less expensive outisde urban areas, although rapidly increasing everywhere as we're in full blown panic mode. Dublin is the only city with a population comparable to Greater Glasgow. Hope that makes sense.

IronSteve

Even comparing Glasgow to Dublin is pointless. Glasgow is a dump and it's less than half the size of Dublin.
Edinburgh fair enough, lovely city, strong financial sector

jamesthepeach

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow, of course our housing is less expensive outisde urban areas, although rapidly increasing everywhere as we're in full blown panic mode. Dublin is the only city with a population comparable to Greater Glasgow. Hope that makes sense.

Glasgow is a horrible place to live though.
Any if my mates who are from Glasgow either have or are dying to get out of it. Thw same can't be said of my dub friends. They are just moving.out because they have no choice if they want to own a home. There is just no comparison between Glasgow and Dublin as regards desirability. Or between Glasgow and Edinburgh for that matter.

frefrefre

jamesthepeach wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow, of course our housing is less expensive outisde urban areas, although rapidly increasing everywhere as we're in full blown panic mode. Dublin is the only city with a population comparable to Greater Glasgow. Hope that makes sense.

Glasgow is a horrible place to live though.
Any if my mates who are from Glasgow either have or are dying to get out of it.  Thw same can't be said of my dub friends.  They are just moving.out because they have no choice if they want to own a home.  There is just no comparison between Glasgow and Dublin as regards desirability.  Or between Glasgow and Edinburgh for that matter.

I like Glasgow, a better night out than Edinburgh, epecially the West End, great energy to the place.
However, seeing as Edinburgh is the administrative and financial capital, perhaps that would be a better comparison with Dublin.

According to rightmove.co.uk, average prices in Edinburgh are 246k sterling which is 286k euro
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/Edinburgh.html

According to Ronan Lyons.  Dafit.ie, average Dublin city prices are 322k and county prices are 348k
https://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2017q1-hp

I don't have time to dig into the data to extrapolate averages for different types of properties unfortunately

Graham

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow

Because you specifically mentioned Glasgow.

Why on earth would you compare a secondary city in Scotland with a capital city somewhere else in Europe?

I still don't see why your friends are shocked at Irish prices, they're generally less than Glasgow.

Limerick 150,000euro
Cork 200,000euro
Glasgow 210,000euro

flatty

jamesthepeach wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow, of course our housing is less expensive outisde urban areas, although rapidly increasing everywhere as we're in full blown panic mode. Dublin is the only city with a population comparable to Greater Glasgow. Hope that makes sense.

Glasgow is a horrible place to live though.
Any if my mates who are from Glasgow either have or are dying to get out of it. Thw same can't be said of my dub friends. They are just moving.out because they have no choice if they want to own a home. There is just no comparison between Glasgow and Dublin as regards desirability. Or between Glasgow and Edinburgh for that matter.

I've lived all over the place. Glasgow is an absolutely fantastic city. I'd move back in a heartbeat.
The navel gazing shiite on here is quite remarkable.
Glaswegians are some of the nicest people in the world, and the architecture is stunning in places. Far nicer than anything in Dublin.

jamesthepeach

flatty wrote: »

I've lived all over the place. Glasgow is an absolutely fantastic city. I'd move back in a heartbeat.
The navel gazing shiite on here is quite remarkable.
Glaswegians are some of the nicest people in the world, and the architecture is stunning in places. Far nicer than anything in Dublin.

I'm from Glasgow.
If I never see it again I won't be too upset.
Love the rest of Scotland however

frefrefre

Graham wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow

Because you specifically mentioned Glasgow.

Why on earth would you compare a secondary city in Scotland with a capital city somewhere else in Europe?

I still don't see why your friends are shocked at Irish prices, they're generally less than Glasgow.

Limerick 150,000euro
Cork 200,000euro
Glasgow 210,000euro

Cork metro area has a population of 300,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Cork

Glasgow metro area is 1.7 million, the largest urban area in Scotland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Glasgow#Metropolitan_Glasgow

Here's another quote from the wiki link which would refute your idea of Glasgow of somehow being a secondary city:
Glasgow has the largest economy in Scotland and is at the hub of the metropolitan area of West Central Scotland. Glasgow also has the third highest GDP Per capita of any city in the UK (after London and Edinburgh).^[128] The city itself sustains more than 410,000 jobs in over 12,000 companies. Over 153,000 jobs were created in the city between 2000 and 2005 — a growth rate of 32%.^[129] Glasgow's annual economic growth rate of 4.4% is now second only to that of London. In 2005, over 17,000 new jobs were created, and 2006 saw private-sector investment in the city reaching £4.2 billion, an increase of 22% in a single year
Cork or Limerick would be better compared with the likes of Leicester or Swansea.

frefrefre

Graham wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow

Because you specifically mentioned Glasgow.

Why on earth would you compare a secondary city in Scotland with a capital city somewhere else in Europe?

I still don't see why your friends are shocked at Irish prices, they're generally less than Glasgow.

Limerick 150,000euro
Cork 200,000euro
Glasgow 210,000euro

Cork metro area has a population of 300,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Cork

Glasgow metro area is 1.7 million, the largest urban area in Scotland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Glasgow#Metropolitan_Glasgow

Here's another quote from the wiki link which would refute your idea of Glasgow of somehow being a secondary city:
Glasgow has the largest economy in Scotland and is at the hub of the metropolitan area of West Central Scotland. Glasgow also has the third highest GDP Per capita of any city in the UK (after London and Edinburgh).^[128] The city itself sustains more than 410,000 jobs in over 12,000 companies. Over 153,000 jobs were created in the city between 2000 and 2005 — a growth rate of 32%.^[129] Glasgow's annual economic growth rate of 4.4% is now second only to that of London. In 2005, over 17,000 new jobs were created, and 2006 saw private-sector investment in the city reaching £4.2 billion, an increase of 22% in a single year
Cork or Limerick would be better compared with the likes of Leicester or Swansea.

frefrefre

flatty wrote: »

jamesthepeach wrote: »

frefrefre wrote: »

Compare Glasgow to Dublin instead, why on earth would you do a comparison of house prices for the whole country against Glasgow, of course our housing is less expensive outisde urban areas, although rapidly increasing everywhere as we're in full blown panic mode. Dublin is the only city with a population comparable to Greater Glasgow. Hope that makes sense.

Glasgow is a horrible place to live though.
Any if my mates who are from Glasgow either have or are dying to get out of it.  Thw same can't be said of my dub friends.  They are just moving.out because they have no choice if they want to own a home.  There is just no comparison between Glasgow and Dublin as regards desirability.  Or between Glasgow and Edinburgh for that matter.

I've lived all over the place. Glasgow is an absolutely fantastic city. I'd move back in a heartbeat.
The navel gazing shiite on here is quite remarkable.
Glaswegians are some of the nicest people in the world, and the architecture is stunning in places. Far nicer than anything in Dublin.

Agreed, it's got it's problems but the people are really down to earth and very friendly. I much prefer it to Edinburgh, although it's picturesque can feel very up itself.
We're a mixture of both in Dublin really, one thing you notice in Edinburgh in a very similar vein to Dublin, is how different the socio-economic classes sound to each other, speaks of a real lack of social cohesion in both cities. You don't get that to the extent in places like Manchester, Glasgow or Liverpool and they're all the better for it.

Samuel T. Cogley

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I'm from Glasgow.
If I never see it again I won't be too upset.
Love the rest of Scotland however

Don't bother with Perth, looks nice but the people...

Graham

frefrefre wrote: »

Glasgow metro area is 1.7 million, the largest urban area in Scotland

It's still not the capital so comparison with Dublin prices is just unrealistic.

Irish prices outside the capital appear to compare favourably with scottish prices outside the capital.
Prices in Dublin compare with prices in Edinburgh.

I know that doesn't suit the 'OMG the Irish market' rhetoric but it is what it is.

dealhunter1985

I notice the central bank guidance is 3.5 times annual salary for first time buyers.
When I put my details into the KBC calculator, it says i can get a mortgage that is closer to 4.25 times my salary.
Is it the case that the banks arent tied to the 3.5 multiple, that its only guidance?

thanks

AlmightyCushion

dealhunter1985 wrote: »

I notice the central bank guidance is 3.5 times annual salary for first time buyers.
When I put my details into the KBC calculator, it says i can get a mortgage that is closer to 4.25 times my salary.
Is it the case that the banks arent tied to the 3.5 multiple, that its only guidance?

thanks

A certain percentage of the mortgages they give out are exempt from those rules.