The seven deadly things we’re doing to trash the planet (and human life with it)

Widdershins

Sam Kade wrote: »

What do you think they should do make everyone go back to horse drawn carriages ans sailing boats? Why are you using electricity with your laptop?

That's a sort of interesting question. If making a change means you disadvantage yourself and turn yourself into a social outcast because you're the only one doing it, why would people do it. People have to live and live within the norms of society too. Not many have the capital to go off grid or want to be the only ones they know doing something different.

Wanderer78

Widdershins wrote:

That's a sort of interesting question. If making a change means you disadvantage yourself and turn yourself into a social outcast because you're the only one doing it, why would people do it. People have to live and live within the norms of society too. Not many have the capital to go off grid or want to be the only ones they know doing something different.

I'd have to agree with Chomsky here, we need institutional change regarding things such as our electrical needs, unfortunately I think we may need to consider nuclear options for this as I'm not convinced green/renewable sources are capable of producing the power we need.

Dr Crayfish

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf

Twice the size of Luxembourg, yikes

BillyBobBS

Sooner or later nature will take back what's rightfully her's and i'm good with that. I don't stress over what i'm doing to the planet one little bit.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Chomsky here, we need institutional change regarding things such as our electrical needs, unfortunately I think we may need to consider nuclear options for this as I'm not convinced green/renewable sources are capable of producing the power we need.

I disagree, we have great potential to produce and possibly export electricity. Nuclear energy isn't exactly safe, but much safer than the likes of coal. I would be in favor of nuclear power plant but only if it's Generation 4, which is some time away still.

Wind/Tidal energy has massive potential in Ireland, wind power more so due to the technology. Tidal turbines are still being tested around Ireland so it might be a while before that's sorted.

People don't want these "ugly" "noisy" things in their sight. It's the same with solar panels on their house, people are more interested in how the roof of their effing house looks than helping with reducing pollution. "No wind farms here" signs spotted around the country, it's embarrassing.

Solar panels and solar water heating should be compulsory on all new builds, throw in a micro wind turbine for the craic (that will knock some €€€ off your electricity bill). Heavily tax ICE's in the cities, make it uneconomical to own an ICE, encourage the purchase of electric vehicles and match growth in ownership with infrastructure build.

Like a lot of things, in order for any real change to happen, older generations need to die off. Politicians care about one thing and one thing only, votes.

Dr Crayfish

Owen Fit Motorbike wrote: »

Like a lot of things, in order for any real change to happen, older generations need to die off. Politicians care about one thing and one thing only, votes.

Do you really think younger politicians will be any different?

Wanderer78

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Do you really think younger politicians will be any different?

some will be but of course some will be indoctrinated

Yourself isit

Widdershins wrote: »

That's a sort of interesting question. If making a change means you disadvantage yourself and turn yourself into a social outcast because you're the only one doing it, why would people do it. People have to live and live within the norms of society too. Not many have the capital to go off grid or want to be the only ones they know doing something different.

It isn't just that. If all of the restrictions demanded happen the world economy will collapse.

Anyway - here's a good article from Mother Jones about how disasterism isn't working but the solution is technically available.


http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/07/our-approach-to-climate-change-isnt-working-lets-try-something-else/

Wanderer78

Yourself isit wrote: »

It isn't just that. If all of the restrictions demanded happen the world economy will collapse.

Anyway - here's a good article from Mother Jones about how disasterism isn't working but the solution is technically available.


http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/07/our-approach-to-climate-change-isnt-working-lets-try-something-else/

we need to change the fundamentals of how we re conducting our economic activities or we will probably have complete economic, societal and environmental collapse. no easy task though

OldNotWIse

The amount of unnecessary plastic on food produce is highly irritating.

Wanderer78

OldNotWIse wrote: »

The amount of unnecessary plastic on food produce is highly irritating.

i personally beleive one of the main causes of this is the free(for-all) market id-iology

Yourself isit

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we need to change the fundamentals of how we re conducting our economic activities or we will probably have complete economic, societal and environmental collapse. no easy task though

You see that's not going to happen is it? Also it's incredibly vague. From what to what? Are you advocating socialism, massive changes in what we consume or higher taxes on the rich?

The mother Jones article is refreshing because it says

1) the technology is there already to go carbon free. More or less.
2) we can do it without major economic impact.

That's a lot more palatable than some u defined massive changes in economics that leads to penury.

Wanderer78

Yourself isit wrote: »

You see that's not going to happen is it? Also it's incredibly vague. From what to what? Are you advocating socialism, massive changes in what we consume or higher taxes on the rich?

The mother Jones article is refreshing because it says

1) the technology is there already to go carbon free. More or less.
2) we can do it without major economic impact.

That's a lot more palatable than some u defined massive changes in economics that leads to penury.

oh i do agree, that we must tackle these issues from multiple angles including what you have proposed. i do beleive there is enough evidence to show that the fundamentals of our economic systems and ideologies are deeply flawed, i.e. theres something fundamentally wrong with things such as neoclassical theory, globalisation, neoliberalism, free market economics etc etc etc. we must start tackling these issues. there are interesting, even radical ideas such as the return to classical economic theory to try tackle these issues. there are individuals and groups out there trying to create major changes such as these.

Dr Crayfish

OldNotWIse wrote: »

The amount of unnecessary plastic on food produce is highly irritating.

I go to Dunnes every day on my lunch break. I've started taking the plastic off the veg I buy and leaving it there, and taking my veg in a brown paper bag, which they provide. Little daily wins like this are good!

Wanderer78

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I go to Dunnes every day on my lunch break. I've started taking the plastic off the veg I buy and leaving it there, and taking my veg in a brown paper bag, which they provide. Little daily wins like this are good!

interesting idea alright but a lot of the damage has actually been done by the creation of the plastic in the first place, but we all must do what we can to prevent more environmental damage.

Dr Crayfish

Wanderer78 wrote: »

interesting idea alright but a lot of the damage has actually been done by the creation of the plastic in the first place, but we all must do what we can to prevent more environmental damage.

I know, but we're legally entitled to leave packaging in the store. If we all did it, maybe they'd get the message and reduce packaging. With the bin charges changing I can see a lot more people doing this. Often I see people in Lidl etc taking all their stuff from packaging in the shelf where you can sort your stuff out, you should do it too!

BillyBobBS

OldNotWIse wrote: »

The amount of unnecessary plastic on food produce is highly irritating.

Read somewhere once that if the supermarkets did away with the plastic and other packaging on fruit and veg the price of the produce itself would go up 30%. I'm guessing it stays fresher and get's less damaged than if left loose. Personally it doesn't bother me at all as long as my green bin is free. When they eventually charge me for it i'll be leaving it back to the shop.

Wanderer78

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I know, but we're legally entitled to leave packaging in the store. If we all did it, maybe they'd get the message and reduce packaging.

i do see your point alright and i suspect it would probably work as it would put pressure on the supply chain to reduce this waste. ive had enough of this 'polluter pays' principle, as all its truly doing is pointing the finger at the end user and effectively is saying, environmental issues are the end users problem, and theyre gonna pay for it! this is far from the truth and sadly most of our politicians and political parties have bought into it even the green party!

Wanderer78

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Read somewhere once that if the supermarkets did away with the plastic and other packaging on fruit and veg the price of the produce itself would go up 30%. I'm guessing it stays fresher and get's less damaged than if left loose. Personally it doesn't bother me at all as long as my green bin is free. When they eventually charge me for it i'll be leaving it back to the shop.

im amazed so many people have bought into this whole 'free' thing. it amazing how such a simple word actually doesnt mean what it actually means anymore.

Widdershins

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Read somewhere once that if the supermarkets did away with the plastic and other packaging on fruit and veg the price of the produce itself would go up 30%. I'm guessing it stays fresher and get's less damaged than if left loose. Personally it doesn't bother me at all as long as my green bin is free. When they eventually charge me for it i'll be leaving it back to the shop.

Plastic makes things sweat though.

I haven't left the packaging behind because I do the shopping online now. A good few on the Zero Waste Ireland Facebook group have done it. I've read that, legallym the shops are supposed to provide a disposal facility for it!

Silver Lynel

Samaris wrote: »

The attitudes of "well, I'm alright jack" are extraordinarily selfish and short-sighted.

Possibly. Or maybe just realistic?

It's already over.

Like falling out of an airplane without a parachute. You'd have 1 to 2 minutes before you hit the ground and die. Might as well enjoy the view on the way down.

The damage we have done to the environment is irreversible now. At best we can delay the inevitable by doing all of the things suggested on the thread.

We keep reproducing though. If you bought an electric car and stopped using plastic bags but decided to have 2 kids then that's a net loss to the environment.

We've got over 7 billion people on the planet now. Should we drive that up to 8, 9, 10 billion or maybe it would be better to go back down to 2 or 3 billion?

There's a massive contradiction when people resolve to be more "environmentally friendly" but go ahead and bring yet more humans into the system.

Every new person born puts a burden on the system. From food, healthcare, clothing etc there is a massive resource drain.

Every day where matter is turned into energy. Every day where a garbage bag full of stuff that can never be reused fills up.

The best thing to do would be to just not have kids enjoy your life however you see fit and then die.

My use of a few extra plastic bags or quick drive down to the shops for a couple of steaks on the weekend is nothing compared to the folks who've decided to have kids.

Anyone who thinks we can save the world or save ourselves or save the environment is delusional.

Wanderer78

Silver Lynel wrote: »

Anyone who thinks we can save the world or save ourselves or save the environment is delusional.

yup thats it, lets just throw our hands in the air and give up. that always works!

we have to try at least

Dr Crayfish

Widdershins wrote: »

Plastic makes things sweat though.

I haven't left the packaging behind because I do the shopping online now. A good few on the Zero Waste Ireland Facebook group have done it. I've read that, legallym the shops are supposed to provide a disposal facility for it!

Rip it off quickly when the van arrives and chase after them throwing it at them maybe?

Widdershins

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Rip it off quickly when the van arrives and chase after them throwing it at them maybe?

Hahaha. Come to think of it. they're very nice, they'd probably wait, and not bat an eyelid!

Silver Lynel

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yup thats it, lets just throw our hands in the air and give up. that always works!

we have to try at least

Why do we have to try?

You fall out of a plane at 10,000 feet. You are dead. It might take a minute to reach the ground but it's already over.

You could pray or flap your arms real fast but... you know?

Sure, we can delay the inevitable, but when the population jumps from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 2.5 billion in 1950 to almost 7.5 billion in 2017? That's free fall.

So we have all these potential solutions and that's great but historically every great advancement in human society has come with a corresponding population "boom". Can the planet actually handle that? Can our societies actually handle that.

What happens if we bring it up to 10 or 15 or 20 billion humans?

The Sun will die some day. Why should we try anything?

Widdershins

Silver Lynel wrote: »

Why do we have to try?

You fall out of a plane at 10,000 feet. You are dead. It might take a minute to reach the ground but it's already over.

You could pray or flap your arms real fast but... you know?

Sure, we can delay the inevitable, but when the population jumps from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 2.5 billion in 1950 to almost 7.5 billion in 2017? That's free fall.

So we have all these potential solutions and that's great but historically every great advancement in human society has come with a corresponding population "boom". Can the planet actually handle that? Can our societies actually handle that.

What happens if we bring it up to 10 or 15 or 20 billion humans?

The Sun will die some day. Why should we try anything?

Maybe it reduces someone or somethings suffering along the way. You probably won't know about it but you know by doing something you might be achieving that much.

Silver Lynel

Widdershins wrote: »

Maybe it reduces someone or somethings suffering along the way. You probably won't know about it but you know by doing something you might be achieving that much.

Then the obvious solution is to stop having children.

Widdershins

Silver Lynel wrote: »

Then the obvious solution is to stop having children.

One of the best solutions but it doesn't negate any of the lesser ones, imo. And if you told people you chose not to have children for that reason they'd call you weird. Which is a shame.
But imagine being someone who wanted children, surrounded by friends who go on to have big families, and at the end of your life regretting your principles preventing you from having a family of your own. This is the biggest one where others also being seen to be living by their principles matters.

Are Am Eye

Silver Lynel wrote: »

What happens if we bring it up to 10 or 15 or 20 billion humans?

The Sun will die some day. Why should we try anything?

Well duh.
Obviously we'll just climb into our hibernation pods on board our inter galactic space ship and sail accross the cosmos to our new host planets

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

One of the best solutions but it doesn't negate any of the lesser ones, imo. And if you told people you chose not to have children for that reason they'd call you weird. Which is a shame.
But imagine being someone who wanted children, surrounded by friends who go on to have big families, and at the end of your life regretting your principles preventing you from having a family of your own. This is the biggest one where others also being seen to be living by their principles matters.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

You could adopt (Although the costs are really high).