The seven deadly things we’re doing to trash the planet (and human life with it)

Capt'n Midnight

Saipanne wrote: »

Destroying what? It's a desert.

A desert full of bleach with lots of radiation.

Micro nutrients levels like selenium could be problematic. Too much or too little is a problem , even in Ireland.
https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/soil--soil-fertility/trace-elements/grassland/selenium/

Selenium is required by humans and animals but not by plants.
...
Sizeable areas of selenium-toxic soils also occur in west Limerick, and smaller areas may be found in south Tipperary, and north Dublin.
...
In Ireland, low-selenium soils are known to occur (Fig 7) in parts of Carlow, Wexford, Cork, Tipperary, Waterford

RayCon

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Hyper consumption, corporations running the world, almost 2 billion vehicles on the roads, human population, monoculture and poor soil, inequality and poverty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZtu3JH0jak

gk5000

Saipanne wrote: »

Because they know better.

That's the scary thing about the left. I mean, the right are cnuts and unashamed of it. I don't agree with them, but they are what they are, so I sort of respect that. But the left genuinely think they are "good". They don't seem to realise that they are cnuts too. They are terrifying.

This is a very astute observation. It would be great if it could be said in a nicer way and put out mainstream and debated - and hopefully so they may start realising what nasty cnuts they are - They are also fundamentally undemocratic in thinking they know better.

Grayson

gk5000 wrote: »

Why do some people decide they have a right to dictate what others "should do"?
Live you own life and leave the rest of us out it. We can all make up our own minds.

Because they look at the facts?

Why shouldn't you be allowed to fly tip rubbish? Or just crap where ever you want?

The fact is that meat consumption, when you have high population levels, is unsustainable. There will be food shortages. And that will lead to riots and even revolutions. The arab spring in Egypt and Syria started because of food shortages and price hikes.

Long term as a planet we are going to have to make changes and that means doing stuff like burning less fossil fuels and eating less meat. So we start now.

It doesn't mean making massive changes overnight it just means making small changes over time.

However people seem to get really angry when someone says "Let's see about eating meat less".

There's no serious suggestion of making it illegal, just a suggestion and yet you get people going nuts over it.

K-9

Ya leftie loonie yeah!

kowloon

Peregrine wrote: »

It's funny how some people are almost frightened by the topic that they immediately hit out at anyone who tries to start a discussion about it.

I wonder how much climate change deniers are driven by that fear. I don't understand the mindset.

Capt'n Midnight

Going veggie may actually increase your carbon footprint.

Yes grains give you more calories per fossil fuel used but meat and dairy give you more protein and other nutrients, doubly so here where most cattle are grass fed most of the year.

Widdershins

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Going veggie may actually increase your carbon footprint.

Yes grains give you more calories per fossil fuel used but meat and dairy give you more protein and other nutrients, doubly so here where most cattle are grass fed most of the year.

If you bought locally grown vegetables (or better again, grew your own) surely that would make a positive impact on your ''carbon footprint'' (I hate that term, for some reason..)

PopePalpatine

kowloon wrote: »

I wonder how much climate change deniers are driven by that fear. I don't understand the mindset.

IME they usually have quite the "small government" streak in them, because usually government action to curtail greenhouse gas emissions takes the form of tax hikes on fossil fuels and state subsidies for renewable energy sources.

Either that or they hope an oil giant will grant them a ticket to Elysium. :pac:

Capt'n Midnight

Widdershins wrote: »

If you bought locally grown vegetables (or better again, grew your own) surely that would make a positive impact on your ''carbon footprint'' (I hate that term, for some reason..)

Only if they don't use fertilizer and packaging.

And of course they won't always be in season.

For many people the additional financial premium of "organic" can't be justified as it means sacrifices elsewhere. From a nutritional point of view factory farmed stuff has the same vitamins and minerals so it's not worth forgoing health related stuff like heating for.

gk5000

Grayson wrote: »

Because they look at the facts?

Why shouldn't you be allowed to fly tip rubbish? Or just crap where ever you want?

The fact is that meat consumption, when you have high population levels, is unsustainable. There will be food shortages. And that will lead to riots and even revolutions. The arab spring in Egypt and Syria started because of food shortages and price hikes.

Long term as a planet we are going to have to make changes and that means doing stuff like burning less fossil fuels and eating less meat. So we start now.

It doesn't mean making massive changes overnight it just means making small changes over time.

However people seem to get really angry when someone says "Let's see about eating meat less".

There's no serious suggestion of making it illegal, just a suggestion and yet you get people going nuts over it.

By all means eat what you like, but don't try to tell others what to eat, or somehow invoke guilt and tie disasters in corrupt countries with eating meat here.

And again if you are worried about high population then some people have to go, so please start with yourself, and not others, or attempt to dictate to others - unless you are the Government - though I'm guessing you don't actually respect democracy in the first place.

Live and let live, as long as it is legal.

ScumLord

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

For many people the additional financial premium of "organic" can't be justified as it means sacrifices elsewhere. From a nutritional point of view factory farmed stuff has the same vitamins and minerals so it's not worth forgoing health related stuff like heating for.

It doesn't really mean sacrifices. I'd argue the factory farmed stuff probably doesn't have the same nutritional value but I don't know either way, it's an assumption on my part but, Organic foods are often a different breed that tastes nicer from the factory farmed stuff which could be a manufactured breed designed to grow at a particular rate regardless of taste. I'm not a fan of tomatoes on their own usually, but I tried an organic tomato, an ugly looking thing, but the difference in taste was unreal.

Organic isn't just about how the product ends up either but more so about how it's made. Organic farms tend to reduce the amount of manufactured fertilizers if not completely eliminate them, which is good for every other living thing in the country. The land also allows undeveloped areas at the side of the fields for wildlife which is good for the Irish biosphere.

I think organic is worth the money just for the reduced impact it has on the environment. But it nearly always tastes better to boot.

Dr Crayfish

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Great article here on the current state of things

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/19/seven-deadly-things-trash-planet-human-life

Hyper consumption, corporations running the world, almost 2 billion vehicles on the roads, human population, monoculture and poor soil, inequality and poverty

These are the major issues we're facing on the planet now and we are ruled by governments who try to encourage most of these issues, being told that the growth of the economy and hyper consumption are what's required to improve quality of life.

I find it pretty scary and surely our days are numbered and quite few at this stage!

Easter Island failed because an isolated land was consumed until nothing was left. Unless we find more planets very soon the same will happen to Earth.

Does anyone think the revolution in lifestyles required to fix these problems will ever happen?

Does anyone have any plans to try and change their lifestyles for the greater good?

As Diarmuid Lyng quite rightly pointed out during his recent TED x speech in Wexford, the whole mantra of consumerism is that 'you alone are not enough'. i couldnt agree more.

This message is being constantly shoved in our face and down our throats by corporations with continuously diminishing human values. My whole disillusionment with the Christmas season is that it is frenzy created under the guise of peace and calm at Christmas. Big corporations telling us the meaning of Christmas when they themselves are so out of touch with the whole meaning of life. That Dunnes stores ad for example makes me sick when i hear the horror stories of how they treat their staff. Its like something you'd read in a Charles Dickens novel.

We are all in jobs/business in order for everyone to survive at the end of the day. To be able to feed ourselves and our young but now we are in a situation where people have zero hour contracts, crap working conditions and ever diminishing dignity in the expense of swelling the coffers of already super rich corporations and making a minority of people even richer.

Im not really one to talk, im trying to launch a consumer product myself next year but if im being really honest i dont care if it doesnt make me a millionaire so long as it allows me to live my life independently day to day on a salary and not be answerable to some moron of a boss.
In fact the thoughts of for example, taking a helicopter from A to B when down below there is homeless people asleep in doorways or people gasping for breath with CF that are priced out of a treatment just seems so vulgar.

Ill admit at first it was about the product not being available on the market and seeing that gap to fill as it was an item i have wanted myself. Then came the realisation that the potential revenue stream could be huge and this was salivating (in equal measure the fear of it failing was terrifying). But over the last 10 days or so ive began to fall out of love with not so much the idea but the whole concept of getting rich. Do i really want to be part of the minority on this planet who control the worlds wealth? For me the project is more about my own creative vision and imagination to daring to go where few people dare to do and launch an ambitious startup.

It is kind of fascinating too how we hold the filthy rich up in such high esteem and i include myself in that category. For example, i was having a chat with a few lads about Bernie Eccleston the other day and how he is always one step ahead and comes up smelling of roses. We laughed at how he managed to turn a life threatening mugging into a a promotion campaign for some watch brand aimed at people with more money then sense and we were in awe as we spoke of his luxury juggernaut that he travels in on the road. And while there is a certain amount of admiration for his craftiness, there will be people just as crafty around the globe who are in a bleak situation that they will never get out of. That is the tombola that is life.

It also seems so meaningless to follow a Premier League team now. Win or lose they get a fortune every week.

So for us to curb this trend that the OP speaks of its about self realisation that we are enough and to rid ourselves of capitalist brain washing. Easier said than done.

To quote Diarmuid Lyng, 'We are more than enough and if we were any more we would probably be too much'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lsm0SZqAUM

Widdershins

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Only if they don't use fertilizer and packaging.

And of course they won't always be in season.

For many people the additional financial premium of "organic" can't be justified as it means sacrifices elsewhere. From a nutritional point of view factory farmed stuff has the same vitamins and minerals so it's not worth forgoing health related stuff like heating for.

Local places that sell organic foods generally don't use packaging. Even supermarkets sell loose fruit and vegetables so it's up to the customer to reject the optional plastic bags if they buy that kind of product.

If it is locally grown it's going to be more nutritious because it hasn't travelled x thousands of miles distance to get to the shop shelf therefore the vitamin content hasn't been depleted to the same extent. In my experience organic tastes better, or at the very least, the same. It strikes me as ridiculous to eat fruit and vegetables in the hope that you'll benefit your health and ignoring the harm from the pestcides and fertilisers you're also consuming.

It's not always going to be in season but eating seasonally and mindfully isn't that difficult and can enhance your enjoyment of the food you're buying, cooking and eating.

Then there's the impact of planes used for flying food around the world.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Ill admit at first it was about the product not being available on the market and seeing that gap to fill as it was an item i have wanted myself. Then came the realisation that the potential revenue stream could be huge and this was salivating (in equal measure the fear of it failing was terrifying).

I wouldn't get too excited just yet. Having the best product on the market means nothing in this day and age, it's all about marketing it and marketing has nothing to do with the products effectiveness.

Designing a product is fun, it's rewarding, it brings all sort of knowledge you wouldn't have had otherwise, it gives you insights into people and how they live. Marketing that product will break your heart though, you'll come up against lies, then you'll have to start promoting your product like it's the second coming of Christ just to get any attention in the market. Making the product is rewarding, trying to sell it can be soul destroying.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't get too excited just yet. Having the best product on the market means nothing in this day and age, it's all about marketing it and marketing has nothing to do with the products effectiveness.

Designing a product is fun, it's rewarding, it brings all sort of knowledge you wouldn't have had otherwise, it gives you insights into people and how they live. Marketing that product will break your heart though, you'll come up against lies, then you'll have to start promoting your product like it's the second coming of Christ just to get any attention in the market. Making the product is rewarding, trying to sell it can be soul destroying.

Im not getting excited. As i said there is as much chance of it failing as succeeding. From research so far it seems to have been received well.

I agree and in order to know how to market the product you have to understand the potential buyer. People can be very very complex.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Im not getting excited. As i said there is as much chance of it failing as succeeding. From research so far it seems to have been received well.

I agree and in order to know how to market the product you have to understand the potential buyer. People can be very very complex.

People are very basic. If you step back and view them as common animals then it's pretty easy to break down their desires and the actual facts of their behaviour. If you get any marketing book these days it basically talks about people's basic animal behaviours and how to take advantage of those behaviours. The trend at the moment is to make emotional ties which is pretty disgusting.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

People are very basic. If you step back and view them as common animals then it's pretty easy to break down their desires and the actual facts of their behaviour. If you get any marketing book these days it basically talks about people's basic animal behaviours and how to take advantage of those behaviours. The trend at the moment is to make emotional ties which is pretty disgusting.

You may just be a useful ally. If you have any useful stuff re marketing then by all means pass it on via a pm (says the boy who just gave a huge spiel about anti-consumerism)

wakka12

HigginsJ wrote: »

Oh good, more Green lecturing :rolleyes:

The world is quite literally dying at an alarming pace, Im no green angel, I do a bit, don't use plastic bags, don't eat meat now, don't drive etc but obviously i could do more. But it really shocks me how little the majority of people care, when you have such shocking statistics and photos of climate change before and afters shoved in your face all over the internet, I just don't get how people are so indifferent towards it when the results will be not could be so disastrous
And its not that this is far in the future this will be during all of our lifetimes that we see these changes

Steve012

Some old American dude told me a few years ago, that the oil extracted from the earth, works as an insulator or something along those lines.
He was saying the damage done by whipping so much (oil) fluid from the earth has overlooked for obvious business reasons, but will most certainly have consequences in the near enough future.

Still need it to drive me motorbike though

wakka12

eeguy wrote: »

Problem is to solve these issues you have to put millions out of work.

Want to stop consumerism? Millions of factory workers out on their ear.

Forestry, car manufacturer, oil production, intensive farming etc etc etc is all the same.

Great doc a while back about logging in the Amazon. Guy says "surely you know the environmental impact of what you're doing. "
Logger says "Yeah, but it's either this or starve."

Unless you can make it profitable to save the world, no one will do it.

Well we all need to grow up or it ends up ****ty for everyone no matter who you are, theres really no other solution everyone just has to change the way they live
And whatever about those loggers who do it because its their livelihoods at stake. Whats our excuse in ireland? Why do so many of us drive and sit in traffic jams for half an hour when we could walk, it might be a little uncomfortabel or tiring or cold but its the planets future at stake and your slight discomfort could do so much good! and over packaging is another ridiculous thing. Get a chinese? Food in a plastic box, with a bundle of tissues, plastic cutlery, all in more paper packaging and the given in a plastic bag. So unnncessary, takeaway coffee cups come in a big cardboard cup with more cardboard padding, plastic cutlery, plastic lid, so many tissues, a mouthful of milk in little plastic containers, sugar in paper vessel rather than in a ceramic mug. Its just insane how over packaged everything we buy is

ScumLord

Steve012 wrote: »

Some old American dude told me a few years ago, that the oil extracted from the earth, works as an insulator or something along those lines.
He was saying the damage done by whipping so much (oil) fluid from the earth has overlooked for obvious business reasons, but will most certainly have consequences in the near enough future.

Still need it to drive me motorbike though

I think oil is better at transferring heat than it is at blocking it so I don't know if that could be true, if anything it's sucking heat away from the centre of the earth and the new empty space would be doing the reverse.

But it is a good point that we don't know what effects moving that oil will have.. Other than moving all that carbon from underground into the atmosphere. But we have moved tons of weight from deep inside the earth to the surface and atmosphere that could have long term effects on our planet's spin but it would likely take thousands if not millions of years for that to have any effect I'd say.

Widdershins

wakka12 wrote: »

The world is quite literally dying at an alarming pace, Im no green angel, I do a bit, don't use plastic bags, don't eat meat now, don't drive etc but obviously i could do more. But it really shocks me how little the majority of people care, when you have such shocking statistics and photos of climate change before and afters shoved in your face all over the internet, I just don't get how people are so indifferent towards it when the results will be not could be so disastrous
And its not that this is far in the future this will be during all of our lifetimes that we see these changes

It's their planet too. To me being ignorant about what happens to the planet is like announcing you have no learning issues but you never learned to read and write and then saying ''ah no more literacy lecturing''.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Hande hoche! wrote: »

We need to colonise Mars. Admittedly we will probably end up destroying it too...

I don't think the Martians would allow that to happen. What about Saturn?

Widdershins

One really good thing I've noticed is that most of my friends with babies are using reusable cloth nappies on them. It's no longer a fringe, hippy thing, it's kind of trendy.

Some friends of mine are even using reusable cloth sanitary pads, and Moon Cups.

Roger_007

Widdershins wrote: »

One really good thing I've noticed is that most of my friends with babies are using reusable cloth nappies on them. It's no longer a fringe, hippy thing, it's kind of trendy.

Some friends of mine are even using reusable cloth sanitary pads, and Moon Cups.

Far too much information there.:eek:

Widdershins

Roger_007 wrote: »

Far too much information there.:eek:

Maybe, but both products massively contribute to the rubbish problem, as well as the excess plastic and polluting effect of the manufacturing process.

Austria!

gk5000 wrote: »

Why do some people decide they have a right to dictate what others "should do"?
Live you own life and leave the rest of us out it. We can all make up our own minds.

Not destroying civilization takes precedence over your total freedom. Not that you have that anyway because there are loads of laws and regulations already.

You don't get to do what you want when it affects everyone else. Your right to move your fist ends where my face begins.

Hande hoche!

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I don't think the Martians would allow that to happen. What about Saturn?

Seems logical.

Our material living standards are already way, way above the level of comfort. People get annoyed when you talk about this stuff because they have already acclimatised to their ridiculously high living standards and don't want to reduce them and they can't stand to think of the fact the earths resources are limited.

The one that annoys me most is seeing people able to buy chicken breasts etc. so cheaply in the likes of lidl - all these chicken needing to be slaughtered so that realms of mentally shattered insecure 2010's men can keep trying to have big arms to try to look attractive to women.

If people were going around in a state of constant bliss as a result of their rampant resource use you could argue it was a good thing but people seem to be more neurotic and messed up than they ever were. High living standards just free up peoples' time and mental resources to dwell over stuff that makes them depressed.