Thinking of Dairying

rangler1

davidk1394 wrote: »

Just thought I'd up date ye. Still dry stock farming. Went looking at a few different milk production systems. Including one that was mentioned on here. Good set up but a lot of work in it. Looked at the real low cost set ups as well and I don't think I'll be going down that route One of the parents is heading out to Holland this week looking at GEA robots, and I'm heading out as part of an ASA trip. Have all the costs done up on how much it would cost to convert to dairying. Have a lot of research carried out on sheds, cubicles and different breeds. Kinda leaning towards fleckvieh or friesian cross cows.
Still have my plan in place for heading off. If this goes ahead it will be a partnership with my parents.

What i have noted is that people who have travelled and came back to a handy job or a farm where the parents have done all the heavy lifting gloat in their travels around the world, but nearly without exception those that like you had serious work to put in when they came back regret the couple years they wasted.
Those that did hoof paring and tractor driving to complement the farming while developing the farm while the parents were still young particularly come to mind as cracking farmers .

Time runs out very quick and since I've been told to cut back I've come to realise that I'm doing well as younger fitter friends are now falling like flies around me with various illnesses......

Mooooo

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Are Fleks not the breed the germans/austrians refuse to sell stock bulls from due to severe temperment issues

I don't know, calves seem calm out, 2 of them a half foot taller than the rest of the calves the same age. Mad for ration anyway

Waffletraktor

Mooooo wrote: »

I don't know, calves seem calm out, 2 of them a half foot taller than the rest of the calves the same age. Mad for ration anyway

One of the welsh students we had for a few years used them to cross from dairy for his uncles herd of beef cows specialising in breeding replacements (go back to lim or charlie for commercial animal), they had to get ai straws from the continent as couldn't get a stock bull unless had a bull pen and escape facilities in sheds etc.

davidk1394

visatorro wrote: »

Why are you excluding low cost route?

I couldn't do it to be honest. The new Zealand system isn't for me. I like doing my bit of machinery work as well. A neighbour has a low cost dairy system. But between labour, renting land, fertiliser, contractor charges is it really as low cost as it looks. He has all kiwi cows so his cull cows and calves are worth zero.

davidk1394

rangler1 wrote: »

What i have noted is that people who have travelled and came back to a handy job or a farm where the parents have done all the heavy lifting gloat in their travels around the world, but nearly without exception those that like you had serious work to put in when they came back regret the couple years they wasted.
Those that did hoof paring and tractor driving to complement the farming while developing the farm while the parents were still young particularly come to mind as cracking farmers .

Time runs out very quick and since I've been told to cut back I've come to realise that I'm doing well as younger fitter friends are now falling like flies around me with various illnesses......

My parents will be 60 next year and I'd like one winter to head off and come back next april . But between brexit and market uncertainty with any food product I don't want to rush into anything while these negotiations are still on going even though they could take 10 years to finalise

Username John

rangler1 wrote: »

What i have noted is that people who have travelled and came back to a handy job or a farm where the parents have done all the heavy lifting gloat in their travels around the world, but nearly without exception those that like you had serious work to put in when they came back regret the couple years they wasted.
Those that did hoof paring and tractor driving to complement the farming while developing the farm while the parents were still young particularly come to mind as cracking farmers .

Time runs out very quick and since I've been told to cut back I've come to realise that I'm doing well as younger fitter friends are now falling like flies around me with various illnesses......

Horses for courses... some people like to travel, some don't...
I think if you don't travel when you're young - it's becomes more and more difficult to get away...

As with everything, there is a happy medium... I think to get away and see a bit of the world for a year or two never did anyone any harm... but tis different for everyone, and everyone's individual situation...

rangler1

davidk1394 wrote: »

My parents will be 60 next year and I'd like one winter to head off and come back next april . But between brexit and market uncertainty with any food product I don't want to rush into anything while these negotiations are still on going even though they could take 10 years to finalise

Guys doing the two years around the world ''finding themselves'' are neither needed nor wanted on the farm whereas with your plans, you are needed......as for brexit you'll be an old man by the time that's sorted.
As you know I'm a realist even pessimist, but just becoming aware over the last few weeks as friends that have formed partnerships and are my age, or younger, that have failed healthwise when the pressure came on, calving etc and have put huge pressure on the son workwise.
They see now they can't be depended on and should never have been

Mooooo

davidk1394 wrote: »

I couldn't do it to be honest. The new Zealand system isn't for me. I like doing my bit of machinery work as well. A neighbour has a low cost dairy system. But between labour, renting land, fertiliser, contractor charges is it really as low cost as it looks. He has all kiwi cows so his cull cows and calves are worth zero.

Have you joined a discussion group?

The part time boy

rangler1 wrote: »

Guys doing the two years around the world ''finding themselves'' are neither needed nor wanted on the farm whereas with your plans, you are needed......

What utter nonsense !!

If any of my children ever wanted to take over the farm I hope and encourage them to see that there more to life than outside the parish first.

What they might lose in money pairing cows for 2 years would far outweigh the life skills they get .

GrasstoMilk

davidk1394 wrote: »

I couldn't do it to be honest. The new Zealand system isn't for me. I like doing my bit of machinery work as well. A neighbour has a low cost dairy system. But between labour, renting land, fertiliser, contractor charges is it really as low cost as it looks. He has all kiwi cows so his cull cows and calves are worth zero.

I'd still deter you from high input route. Milk price is too unpredictable now and that's when you really get burned in a high input system.
Inputs aren't cheap enough in Ireland to do it.
Go for a 7500/8000 litre hol if you want and graze them.
Very few farms start out day one in a high cost system, it's generally something that gradually happens over time

rangler1

The part time boy wrote: »

What utter nonsense !!

If any of my children ever wanted to take over the farm I hope and encourage them to see that there more to life than outside the parish first.

What they might lose in money pairing cows for 2 years would far outweigh the life skills they get .

I've yet to see any evidence of it in farming...it's a first world fad

davidk1394

Mooooo wrote: »

Have you joined a discussion group?

Not yet

davidk1394

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'd still deter you from high input route. Milk price is too unpredictable now and that's when you really get burned in a high input system.
Inputs aren't cheap enough in Ireland to do it.
Go for a 7500/8000 litre hol if you want and graze them.
Very few farms start out day one in a high cost system, it's generally something that gradually happens over time

I was aiming for around a 7,500/litre cow and buy them as heifers. Thinking of bringing them in from Germany \Austria. The cows up north are fierce high yielding and anything coming from Holland will probably have Johne's. If I could source good stock in Ireland it would be great. The reason I'm looking at indoors is the land area around me. I'd be stuck at around 100-120 cows

davidk1394

rangler1 wrote: »

I've yet to see any evidence of it in farming...it's a first world fad

Would you not thinking seeing a bit of the world would be good for someone ? Any of the fellas i know who went would recommend it to anyone. A friend of mine went for a month to Australia when the cows were dry. His going doing it again this year. If you went out for 2 years and worked hard a person could come back with 100k easily. Another fella didn't like school and he went out cutting corn, he showed good ability on machinery and his in a mine earning €100k a year and his only 19.

The part time boy

rangler1 wrote: »

I've yet to see any evidence of it in farming...it's a first world fad

I would like to me myself as well travelled . I seen a bit of the world seen a difference in now different country think and do .

I did not travel when I was young I took over the farm at 19. Something I wished I put off a year to travel a bit .

So has all this travel done me any good or harm ? Well who knows

Depends who looks in from outside I guess.

I ran and expanded the farm for 20 years . Most of time I loved it . There was a few bad times were I lost the love and found it tough but over all it was great life . I sold my cows and set up a suscesfull business. I am very proud and happy with my life. Loved the full time farming at the time and know loving phase 2 of my life . Lot more free time and doing a a job i love and more finical better off.

For some of my neiobours who never leave the parish I sure they see me as a failure . Could not manage to run the farm , all that traveling ruined him . Off again for bank holiday weekend does he do any work !

Lucky It does not bother me what people think of me lol. Other wise I woukd never have experenced phase 2 of my life and get to spend more time with family and friends

davidk1394

The part time boy wrote: »

I would like to me myself as well travelled . I seen a bit of the world seen a difference in now different country think and do .

I did not travel when I was young I took over the farm at 19. Something I wished I put off a year to travel a bit .

So has all this travel done me any good or harm ? Well who knows

Depends who looks in from outside I guess.

I ran and expanded the farm for 20 years . Most of time I loved it . There was a few bad times were I lost the love and found it tough but over all it was great life . I sold my cows and set up a suscesfull business. I am very proud and happy with my life. Loved the full time farming at the time and know loving phase 2 of my life . Lot more free time and doing a a job i love and more finical better off.

For some of my neiobours who never leave the parish I sure they see me as a failure . Could not manage to run the farm , all that traveling ruined him . Off again for bank holiday weekend does he do any work !

Lucky It does not bother me what people think of me lol. Other wise I woukd never have experenced phase 2 of my life and get to spend more time with family and friends

People seem to get sucked into "the farm" that it'll all just fail if they go away for a day. Fair play to you for doing what you did. The people who talk about you are usually the ones who a jealous of what you achieved. Happened here with a "friend" of mine recently.

patsy_mccabe

I did a fair bit of travelling. Most of it through work in one form or another. I'm up to 26 countries now. We all know lads that never venture outside their local pub. They're the ones great for the smart comments. Irish begrudgery at its best. Life is too short not to enjoy it.

Mooooo

davidk1394 wrote: »

Not yet

Do if you can before any cows land, some of the best places for advice. Also you can get cows with those yields in Ireland, importing will only add more cost and risk

davidk1394

Mooooo wrote: »

Do if you can before any cows land, some of the best places for advice. Also you can get cows with those yields in Ireland, importing will only add more cost and risk

I'll do that. Where would you advise to go in Ireland?

teddy 1223

How many cows could you milk on 55 acres. Its good land,11 of them acres need a bit of draining done.

GrasstoMilk

davidk1394 wrote: »

I was aiming for around a 7,500/litre cow and buy them as heifers. Thinking of bringing them in from Germany \Austria. The cows up north are fierce high yielding and anything coming from Holland will probably have Johne's. If I could source good stock in Ireland it would be great. The reason I'm looking at indoors is the land area around me. I'd be stuck at around 100-120 cows

Sure what's wrong with 120? Hell of a lot of work in that many cows.
My advice would be to start at 80 and head up to 120 on a grass based system and head up into high cost if you want to in 5 years time.

Mooooo

davidk1394 wrote: »

I'll do that. Where would you advise to go in Ireland?

Well at 7500L there are plenty herds doing that, on here mahoneyj, Stan, and plenty more are at it or above. With regards finding them you could go to local vets or marts and find out who sell stock regularly or perhaps grasstec and crowds like em that source stock, although haven't used them outselves. When we restocked it was word of mouth and thru vets and a few more people dad knew, some of the lads sell g better stock may not advertise as they would have repeat buyers anyway

davidk1394

Mooooo wrote: »

Well at 7500L there are plenty herds doing that, on here mahoneyj, Stan, and plenty more are at it or above. With regards finding them you could go to local vets or marts and find out who sell stock regularly or perhaps grasstec and crowds like em that source stock, although haven't used them outselves. When we restocked it was word of mouth and thru vets and a few more people dad knew, some of the lads sell g better stock may not advertise as they would have repeat buyers anyway

I'll do that. I know 1 fella who'll be selling 30 incalf montbelard heifers in2 years time. Their a lovely cow but can be very stubborn from my experience with them

rangler1

davidk1394 wrote: »

Would you not thinking seeing a bit of the world would be good for someone ? Any of the fellas i know who went would recommend it to anyone. A friend of mine went for a month to Australia when the cows were dry. His going doing it again this year. If you went out for 2 years and worked hard a person could come back with 100k easily. Another fella didn't like school and he went out cutting corn, he showed good ability on machinery and his in a mine earning €100k a year and his only 19.

Sure you know me, I think it's a waste of your degree (and life) to even think of farming but I''m relaying what other self employed have said to me about their time away. probably different in that they're not farming and have successful businesses built up, I know very few young farmers.
Btw your 19yr old friend would be an awful fool to even look over a ditch at a farm now

davidk1394

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Sure what's wrong with 120? Hell of a lot of work in that many cows.
My advice would be to start at 80 and head up to 120 on a grass based system and head up into high cost if you want to in 5 years time.

There is in the spring with calving and A.I but once the silage is done its fairly straight forward interms of grazing management, just keep on top of any issues with mastitis and vaccines towards the end of the year. If I could get a student during the spring it would help with the workload

davidk1394

rangler1 wrote: »

Sure you know me, I think it's a waste of your degree (and life) to even think of farming but I''m relaying what other self employed have said to me about their time away. probably different in that they're not farming and have successful businesses built up, I know very few young farmers.
Btw your 19yr old friend would be an awful fool to even look over a ditch at a farm now

Tis the older fella going farming and the this lad is happy out in Oz

Water John

The Fleckvieh is basically a milking Simmental. Bavaria would be the best spot for them. AFAIK there are more Fleck than FR in Germany.
Yes, you will have a fine calf.
Go out abroad and learn from good farmers and systems.
You then formulate your own plan.

mf240

Buy good cows with low scc and good feet and respectable solids.

Don't get caught up in fancy breeds or pedigrees.

More importantly if it's what you want to do ,then get stuck in , and don't listen to the barstool experts.

Best of luck with it .

Water John

Mf has a good point there. Set a good base, making money and getting your skills levels up.

Morris Moss

davidk1394 wrote: »

I'll do that. I know 1 fella who'll be selling 30 incalf montbelard heifers in2 years time. Their a lovely cow but can be very stubborn from my experience with them

Montbelliarde wouldn't make any sense if you want a high yielding herd.