Thinking of Dairying

farisfat

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'm farming fulltime at home with my parents. Went from school to ag collage and came home. Don't regret it one bit. Thoroughly enjoy what I do, some days I think maybe I should have gone and worked for some more farmers for a few years but it wasn't really an option at the time and it's all worked out for me.
You're right I'm not paying myself the standard wage my comrades are getting or have the holidays off they do either, but I'm basically my own boss, I dont pay rent, I don't have to commute to and from work every day etc etc.
I will also have my own house finished in the coming weeks, that will really only have cost me c35k, granted it's only a 2 bedroom but no one my age can hope of owning a house of there own till they are well into there late 20s and then be crippled for the rest if there lives paying back a 300k mortgage
I enjoy what I do, very few ppl in this world get enjoyment out of what they do for a living. I think you're wrong in your opinion and by the time I'm 30 I'll hope to have myself set up that I can take home a lot more than the average industrial wage and have a lot more time off.

Full-time here and enjoy it.
My brothers eldest started a job straight out of college at 21 50 K plus expenses.
It won't take him long to brake the back out of half MIL if he keeps his head screwed on.

kowtow

I reckon that farming, as a whole, gives more time with family and especially more quality time with them than most occupations in today's world. In fact I'd put quality of family life down as one of those farming only plus-points that compensate for lack of earnings.

Agree that it may not work with children of all ages, but believe me there are plenty of careers, including a lot of self-employed / SME setups, not to mention technology or finance - where time with family really is scarce. When my children were younger and I was working I wouldn't see them from weekend to weekend - and even then I'd be more likely to have a laptop on my knee than one of them.

I know no two families are identical, or any two farms, but I think sometimes the "grass is always greener" applies in this debate.

wrangler

yewtree wrote: »

You seem to want to look for the bad side of everything. Have a really good relief milker here. Can walk away and everything will be grand when I get home. It doesn't cost a fortune either.
This thread reminds me of that saying -
Negative people find a problem for every solution.

I don't know if with experience comes wisdom, but I told everyone in 2013 the way CAP was going to go and was told we hadn't a hope, Now I believe you'd need to be blind not to see the way farming is going never mind the climate change that we're experiencing.
Actually I hope you're right,because it's in my interest that your optimism is justified for the length of my leases

Panch18

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'm farming fulltime at home with my parents. Went from school to ag collage and came home. Don't regret it one bit. Thoroughly enjoy what I do, some days I think maybe I should have gone and worked for some more farmers for a few years but it wasn't really an option at the time and it's all worked out for me.
You're right I'm not paying myself the standard wage my comrades are getting or have the holidays off they do either, but I'm basically my own boss, I dont pay rent, I don't have to commute to and from work every day etc etc.
I will also have my own house finished in the coming weeks, that will really only have cost me c35k, granted it's only a 2 bedroom but no one my age can hope of owning a house of there own till they are well into there late 20s and then be crippled for the rest if there lives paying back a 300k mortgage
I enjoy what I do, very few ppl in this world get enjoyment out of what they do for a living. I think you're wrong in your opinion and by the time I'm 30 I'll hope to have myself set up that I can take home a lot more than the average industrial wage and have a lot more time off.

You're a young whiper snapper with enthusiasm bursting out of you - which is great, farming needs that

however it grinds - dairy is none stop, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. When you have 20 years or more of it then your enthusiasm wanes further and further with each passing day

The most spoken about word here is unsustainable - what we are doing is not sustainable in the long run - there is simply too much work. And as fella get bigger and bigger at dairy the more of them will also find its unsustainable

Panch18

yewtree wrote: »

You seem to want to look for the bad side of everything. Have a really good relief milker here. Can walk away and everything will be grand when I get home. It doesn't cost a fortune either.
This thread reminds me of that saying -
Negative people find a problem for every solution.

Is it negativity or is it the actual reality?

some fellas are living in dream land - a good dose of reality is needed a lot of the time in farming

Panch18

kowtow wrote: »

I reckon that farming, as a whole, gives more time with family and especially more quality time with them than most occupations in today's world. In fact I'd put quality of family life down as one of those farming only plus-points that compensate for lack of earnings.

Agree that it may not work with children of all ages, but believe me there are plenty of careers, including a lot of self-employed / SME setups, not to mention technology or finance - where time with family really is scarce. When my children were younger and I was working I wouldn't see them from weekend to weekend - and even then I'd be more likely to have a laptop on my knee than one of them.

I know no two families are identical, or any two farms, but I think sometimes the "grass is always greener" applies in this debate.

I suppose the question is Kowtow - were you being rewarded financially for having the laptop on your knee at weekends? (if there is a Swiss finance link then I'm going to hazard a safe guess and say yes!!)

And do you think you are being similarly rewarded now for working at weekends farming?

mf240

I'm as happy As a pig in shyte milking cows . This year is a struggle but sure if it was easy then everyone would be at it.

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

I'm as happy As a pig in shyte milking cows . This year is a struggle but sure if it was easy then everyone would be at it.

Do you take much time off?

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

Do you take much time off?

What's time off?

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

What's time off?

How's your heavy land fairing out this year?

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

How's your heavy land fairing out this year?

Still green but not growing. Going to have to start feeding silage this week. On 10kgs of a soya Hull dairy nut mix the last few weeks. I found 2012 an awful lot worse.

yewtree

Panch18 wrote: »

Is it negativity or is it the actual reality?

some fellas are living in dream land - a good dose of reality is needed a lot of the time in farming

From my experience there is endless amounts of negative people willing to tell you all the things that are wrong. The trick is to surround yourself with positive people who lift you up.
You seem to suggest that unless we are unhappy about working in farming we are detached from reality. Which I think is nonsense


We as farmers that need to get over ourselves we are not the only occupation that work long hours and have lots of pressure.

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

Still green but not growing. Going to have to start feeding silage this week. On 10kgs of a soya Hull dairy nut mix the last few weeks. I found 2012 an awful lot worse.

Apparently I'm the only one in the parish not feeding/supplementing the cows. Grass is growing here. Slowly. Definitely getting a response to fertiliser. Just finished spreading cut sward where we cut silage yesterday and the dew was there until about 10 am. Worst fertiliser we ever got. Solid in the bags

Bass Reeves

Not every lad capable of dairying is capable of graduating to a potential 50K/year job even within 5 years of graduating. Most of those entering state jobs as graduates will be 10-15 years in those jobs before they hit that income limit even with overtime.

For all the talk that graduates enter the economy at 50K it is only a small percentage. Most in the building industry enter it as graduates start at 30ishK, max out at 50-60K unless they become self employed and start there own business. That is different to being a mini subcontractor. Those that are on the 50-60K wage are travelling often either away over night or travelling 2 hours to and from work 12-13 hour days away from home. Maybe away 6 hours on a Saturday.

I am one of those handy 50K+ workers, I am on call this week back into work on Friday evening for 2 hours, 5-6 hours on Saturday 5pm-11pm, Again Sunday 3.30-11pm did not get to see the Kerry match, Monday 7.30 am-6.30pm, yesterday, left home at 6am as loading cattle, into work at 8am until home at 6, left to go back in at 7.30pm and got home again at 3am. You get nothing for nothing in this life.

Yes there are jobs in Dublin earning big money most are leaving for work at before 7am and some an hour earlier and not back home until after 6pm maybe after 7pm. Talking to an Air Con engineer a few weeks ago at present leaves home most morning at 5.30 am and is not home until near 7pm. He is doing a job far side of Cork City from him and lives 60 miles from it. Like myself he is on call.

Yes there is handy jobs with multi-nationals you may start at 30-40K maybe even 50K. It great until you have a family you travel the world. You are in Dublin this week, China next week and off to the States or the Philipines the week after. Home late Friday evening or early Saturday morning. Ya you have the F@@king weekend off. Know one lad that leaves home every Monday at 6am and is home Thursday night at the earliest. Another lads spends 3-4 weeks in California 2-3 times a year staying in a hotel. Wife and kids were out to him 2-3 times over the last 5 years but no longer interested in going there. That si not his only travelling for the year.

It is not just the self employed taxes that are squandered so are a lot of other peoples. It is not just on water charges debacle. Subsidising things low interest loads to selected groups. Directing envoirment money to lads that are intensive farmers rather than those that are actually supposed to get it.

Most farmers make a choice. Over the years I have always said that any lad that is at drystock fulltime is deluded. In General it is possible to run a 100+ acre drystock farm in 20 hours a week especially if you live on it. But most want to spend the week ar5ing around a mart trying to pick up a few cheap cattle. The margin is no longer in it for that. In general most livestock farmer will pay too much for calves.

Dairy farmers in general will not make life style choices. Most will take on work themselves to save 5-10 euro/hour. They will buy machinery rather than put money in a pension fund or pay tax on it. They will drive around in big fuel guzzelers spending 70-80 euro/week on fuel. If you want a lifestyle you have to pay for it one way or another.

vincenzolorenzo

That is a fantastic post

kowtow

Panch18 wrote: »

I suppose the question is Kowtow - were you being rewarded financially for having the laptop on your knee at weekends? (if there is a Swiss finance link then I'm going to hazard a safe guess and say yes!!)

And do you think you are being similarly rewarded now for working at weekends farming?

Yes and Yes, but in totally different ways. Although to be honest it would have been there whether I was or not.

Apart from anything else attitudes to children change, neither the OH or I were ever particularly keen on hands-on childcare, we ended up raising two infuriatingly independent free-range children... but one way or another children grow up, in spite of their parents and not because of them.

Spending more time working is a choice, if we are honest, much of the time - as is spending more time with the kids. It is a better choice if it is not made out of social expectation, or financial necessity, or guilt - and if time spent really is valued. Children don't much care whether the time they are on their father's knee in front of a bank of trading screens, or in a tractor seat, or taking them to school - once they know that he is enjoying having them there... I'd have thought farming was a pretty good way to raise children on balance and one of the few careers where time spent with children is not economically wasted... if that time has to be concentrated more in the years after they are big enough to block a gap then what odds?

Others will think differently and that's as it should be.

20silkcut

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not every lad capable of dairying is capable of graduating to a potential 50K/year job even within 5 years of graduating. Most of those entering state jobs as graduates will be 10-15 years in those jobs before they hit that income limit even with overtime.

For all the talk that graduates enter the economy at 50K it is only a small percentage. Most in the building industry enter it as graduates start at 30ishK, max out at 50-60K unless they become self employed and start there own business. That is different to being a mini subcontractor. Those that are on the 50-60K wage are travelling often either away over night or travelling 2 hours to and from work 12-13 hour days away from home. Maybe away 6 hours on a Saturday.

I am one of those handy 50K+ workers, I am on call this week back into work on Friday evening for 2 hours, 5-6 hours on Saturday 5pm-11pm, Again Sunday 3.30-11pm did not get to see the Kerry match, Monday 7.30 am-6.30pm, yesterday, left home at 6am as loading cattle, into work at 8am until home at 6, left to go back in at 7.30pm and got home again at 3am. You get nothing for nothing in this life.

Yes there are jobs in Dublin earning big money most are leaving for work at before 7am and some an hour earlier and not back home until after 6pm maybe after 7pm. Talking to an Air Con engineer a few weeks ago at present leaves home most morning at 5.30 am and is not home until near 7pm. He is doing a job far side of Cork City from him and lives 60 miles from it. Like myself he is on call.

Yes there is handy jobs with multi-nationals you may start at 30-40K maybe even 50K. It great until you have a family you travel the world. You are in Dublin this week, China next week and off to the States or the Philipines the week after. Home late Friday evening or early Saturday morning. Ya you have the F@@king weekend off. Know one lad that leaves home every Monday at 6am and is home Thursday night at the earliest. Another lads spends 3-4 weeks in California 2-3 times a year staying in a hotel. Wife and kids were out to him 2-3 times over the last 5 years but no longer interested in going there. That si not his only travelling for the year.

It is not just the self employed taxes that are squandered so are a lot of other peoples. It is not just on water charges debacle. Subsidising things low interest loads to selected groups. Directing envoirment money to lads that are intensive farmers rather than those that are actually supposed to get it.

Most farmers make a choice. Over the years I have always said that any lad that is at drystock fulltime is deluded. In General it is possible to run a 100+ acre drystock farm in 20 hours a week especially if you live on it. But most want to spend the week ar5ing around a mart trying to pick up a few cheap cattle. The margin is no longer in it for that. In general most livestock farmer will pay too much for calves.

Dairy farmers in general will not make life style choices. Most will take on work themselves to save 5-10 euro/hour. They will buy machinery rather than put money in a pension fund or pay tax on it. They will drive around in big fuel guzzelers spending 70-80 euro/week on fuel. If you want a lifestyle you have to pay for it one way or another.

Great post your hours are hectic are you a workaholic??

I agree anyone on 50K a year after tax will really earn it. Bar maybe someone fiddling the system or maybe the higher echelons of the public service.

I would argue that it would be an easier life to make 50k into the hand out of dairy farming than it would in a private sector job. Whoever is giving you that 50K is going to get their pound of flesh and your ass belongs to them.

If you can let live with the **** and the muck and being tied down to milk tad and don’t overstock then dairy farming wins hands down. Especially if your a more introverted person and don’t like working in a team or serving a master.

Although you will always be serving a master.
Just in dairying he might not be in your face all day.

Bass Reeves

20silkcut wrote: »

Great post your hours are hectic are you a workaholic??

I agree anyone on 50K a year after tax will really earn it. Bar maybe someone fiddling the system or maybe the higher echelons of the public service.

I would argue that it would be an easier life to make 50k into the hand out of dairy farming than it would in a private sector job. Whoever is giving you that 50K is going to get their pound of flesh and your ass belongs to them.

If you can let live with the **** and the muck and being tied down to milk tad and don’t overstock then dairy farming wins hands down. Especially if your a more introverted person and don’t like working in a team or serving a master.

Although you will always be serving a master.
Just in dairying he might not be in your face all day.

No but busier than usual at the moment. Some lads on holidays the show must go on. I earn a good living. The week I am on call often I try to line up out of hour jobs. This week is hectic the, jobs this Monday and Tuesday were supposed to be done last week contractor cancelled at the last moment. The night job was scheduled for a few week.

But when it happen I get on with it and look at the positive side.........the pay check in a few week time:D. Having said that there are too many good pay checks at present. When you earn more than 50K you have to work to earn it one way or another they get there pound of flesh.

The problem with dairying is some lads are not capable of running the operation they have. When you are running a larger operation everything must be just right. It is way easier to run something at 80% effeciency than 90%. But tring to get 100% out of man, land and beast is a tough ask. you need to be on your toes all the time. A lad milking 8K+ litres of milk/cow in an 70-100 cow operation may not have the skills to run multiple operations with 150 cows/ unit and vica versa.

But for a lad that has limited academic skill but a good worker is it better to be driving a milk or lorry or supplying it???

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

Apparently I'm the only one in the parish not feeding/supplementing the cows. Grass is growing here. Slowly. Definitely getting a response to fertiliser. Just finished spreading cut sward where we cut silage yesterday and the dew was there until about 10 am. Worst fertiliser we ever got. Solid in the bags

Id say your very much in the minority nationwide. Ya may post a pic of a green cow dung. This so long since I seen one I can't picture it.

farawaygrass

whelan2 wrote: »

Apparently I'm the only one in the parish not feeding/supplementing the cows. Grass is growing here. Slowly. Definitely getting a response to fertiliser. Just finished spreading cut sward where we cut silage yesterday and the dew was there until about 10 am. Worst fertiliser we ever got. Solid in the bags

If it’s big bags, when you start lifting it on the loader, give it 2 or 3 bangs off the ground, should sort out that problem

whelan2

farawaygrass wrote: »

If it’s big bags, when you start lifting it on the loader, give it 2 or 3 bangs off the ground, should sort out that problem

Would it be that there wasn't as big a run on fertiliser this year and they were in merchant's yard a long time. Never had that trouble with big bags before.

Mooooo

Be careful when opening, use a long handled blade as fert can come out in one block and catch you if stuck together. I tend to left the bags a foot or so and drop on to the pallet again to help break them.

davidk1394

Sorry with the late reply. Busy with the Galway races :P yeah meeting went well. Decided to hold off 2 years in setting up the partnership. Still getting out of sheep and parents are going to do calf to beef for a year or 2. Got grass seed in including Italian rye grass so should be baling it in 7 weeks and sell it.
I am thinking of heading to Saudi for 2 years. A friend is doing it and loves it. Good way to put money together for myself.

Reggie.

davidk1394 wrote: »

Sorry with the late reply. Busy with the Galway races :P yeah meeting went well. Decided to hold off 2 years in setting up the partnership. Still getting out of sheep and parents are going to do calf to beef for a year or 2. Got grass seed in including Italian rye grass so should be baling it in 7 weeks and sell it.
I am thinking of heading to Saudi for 2 years. A friend is doing it and loves it. Good way to put money together for myself.

Going to give up the contracting?

kk.man

Mooooo wrote: »

Be careful when opening, use a long handled blade as fert can come out in one block and catch you if stuck together. I tend to left the bags a foot or so and drop on to the pallet again to help break them.

Did you see last week's journal? An absolute disgrace the pic showing guy cutting the bag! A national newspaper promoting health and safety on farms !

I am not a holy Joe when it comes to safety but you don't let a picture like that out.

Water John

In 2 years, Brexit will be settled, one way or another. Might be a less volatile time to start. Any chance the parents might start rearing heifer calves esp the second year?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

In 2 years, Brexit will be settled, one way or another. Might be a less volatile time to start. Any chance the parents might start rearing heifer calves esp the second year?

I was thinking along the same lines. Next year would be a great opportunity to start milking.



Buy weanlings and in calf heifers/cows this winter to the level you have fodder for.



It will be a while again before they are better value than this winter.

Timmaay

+1 buford, I was talking to a neighbour who is starting milking in the spring, he has his heifers already but said he might snap up even more now that they are looking cheap, he nearly had me convinced by the end of the conversation to drive on and snap up another 20 myself ha.

cjpm

Timmaay wrote: »

+1 buford, I was talking to a neighbour who is starting milking in the spring, he has his heifers already but said he might snap up even more now that they are looking cheap, he nearly had me convinced by the end of the conversation to drive on and snap up another 20 myself ha.

You'll have to start going back to the monthly meetings Timmay, it's your only chance of beating your addiction....

"My name is Tim and I first started milking cows when I was 16......."

blue5000

cjpm wrote: »

You'll have to start going back to the monthly meetings Timmay, it's your only chance of beating your addiction....

"My name is Tim and I first started milking cows when I was 16......."

Tim was lucky, he escaped to 16:pac: