Thinking of Dairying

C0N0R

OP if going down the high input road I would run a million miles from a zero grazer, you want consistency of feed and a zero grazer won't give you that. Get a good deal with a contractor to cut your silage, 100 acres short draw and low yield four times will be music to his ears along with 50 acres of maize from the outside block. Your time is best spent concentrating on the cow, make sure she wants for nothing and has top quality feed available to her.

Water John

Conor, I think that's not a bad recipe you are suggesting there.
OP can always set 120 cows as the first phase, draw breath and then see does he move further.
If he can't make an income on 120 cows, then everyone is a fool.

simx

mahoney_j wrote: »

Forget nos as efficiency always trumps numbers

Exactly could think of a lad I know with 80 cows and another with 50, lad with 50 is by far better farmer and I bet has higher margin/ha

C0N0R

Water John wrote: »

Conor, I think that's not a bad recipe you are suggesting there.
OP can always set 120 cows as the first phase, draw breath and then see does he move further.
If he can't make an income on 120 cows, then everyone is a fool.

Only problem I see is milk price compared to feed price, you would want a good liquid contract to justify any type of high input system. Efficiency of feed conversion is important too, we have cows here consuming 25kg/dm and averaging 60 litres, twice as much milk as some cows but not twice the amount of feed.

I'd love to get my teeth into a proper high input system in Ireland but I don't see it as a viable business model to be honest.

carrollsno1

C0N0R wrote: »

Paper never refused ink!

How do you mean?
.

Also most farms in the UK are high cost and indoors and there the lads always whinging about the bad milk price in there new tractors down at the local asda but no matter what price farmers are paying we will still always complain

yewtree

It's an interesting thread. I dont agree that the bigger numbers the bigger the slave you are.
A guy in our DG is milking 300 cows, seems to have a good balance, he has labour so everyone gets regular time off.
Neighbour milking 40 does all the milking, often hear machine going at 7.30 in evening.
I am no where near 400 cows and don't think you need to milk that many to be viable. Having te scale to have full time labour can make it easier get away from the farm and some lads are just better organised

kevthegaff

yewtree wrote:

It's an interesting thread. I dont agree that the bigger numbers the bigger the slave you are. A guy in our DG is milking 300 cows, seems to have a good balance, he has labour so everyone gets regular time off. Neighbour milking 40 does all the milking, often hear machine going at 7.30 in evening. I am no where near 400 cows and don't think you need to milk that many to be viable. Having te scale to have full time labour can make it easier get away from the farm and some lads are just better organised

+1
Know a lad milking 160, doesnt milk up at 11 regularly to farm. One man show a lot harder, speaking from experience

whelan2

carrollsno1 wrote: »

How do you mean?
.

Also most farms in the UK are high cost and indoors and there the lads always whinging about the bad milk price in there new tractors down at the local asda but no matter what price farmers are paying we will still always complain

Look at the north. Lots of farmers getting out. Majority are indoors all year around. Zero grazing etc. Auctioneers can pick and choose which dispersal sales they take on. Costs must be massive.

davidk1394

If there's a comfortable living to be made out of a 100 to 120 cows i'd be more than happy. A neighbour of ours has an organic dairy farm and is milking them with a lely robot, I was talking to him Saturday night and he said his making 100K a year !! could that be right ?? I was talking to the uncle about starting up an organic dairy herd but trying to find the stock could be an issue

GrasstoMilk

carrollsno1 wrote: »

How do you mean?
.

Also most farms in the UK are high cost and indoors and there the lads always whinging about the bad milk price in there new tractors down at the local asda but no matter what price farmers are paying we will still always complain

I'll just leave this here. He has a lot of good http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/uk-no-place-for-high-input-dairies-says-researcher.htm#.WDVRFhvObxM.twitter

Water John

Develop a couple of models. Rule nothing out. Give each a file. Do a good few visits. Don't do it all in the head. It will addle you and you will need input from others, not least your family.
After a while some will drop out and you will be left with 2 or 3.
That process will take maybe 2/3 months. It is not time wasted.

Separately, what is the option of buying a whack of female calves and rearing them. Convert to organic at the same time. Just another option.

davidk1394

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'll just leave this here. He has a lot of good http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/uk-no-place-for-high-input-dairies-says-researcher.htm#.WDVRFhvObxM.twitter

Interesting article alright. In one of the modules in college it's all about an indoor system and how you can have a consistent milk supply rather than a sharp peak with the grass based system. I was looking at maize and baled silage for part of the diet and looking at the option of growing beans to feed to the cows as a protein source

davidk1394

Water John wrote: »

Develop a couple of models. Rule nothing out. Give each a file. Do a good few visits. Don't do it all in the head. It will addle you and you will need input from others, not least your family.
After a while some will drop out and you will be left with 2 or 3.
That process will take maybe 2/3 months. It is not time wasted.

Separately, what is the option of buying a whack of female calves and rearing them. Convert to organic at the same time. Just another option.

i was thinking about buying dairy heifer calves alright next spring. If i could do a deal with the uncle it'd be great as he has all the roadways and the whole farm was reseeded 3 years ago. All I'd have to do is re-fence it and put in a parlor

yosemitesam1

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I'll just leave this here. He has a lot of good http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/uk-no-place-for-high-input-dairies-says-researcher.htm#.WDVRFhvObxM.twitter

Don't think I'd agree with much in that at all, the all year round supplier with a proper contract linked to something of value will have the last laugh yet. Not sure whether we've seen the downturn in milk prices yet...

GrasstoMilk

How much land have you as a milk platform currently david and what can you get up to?

All indoor system unless you can get a liquid contract which you won't do unless strathroy are in your area.
Why can't you just do 100 cows instead of 400.
The cost of building all those sheds would be eye watering

davidk1394

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How much land have you as a milk platform currently david and what can you get up to?

All indoor system unless you can get a liquid contract which you won't do unless strathroy are in your area.
Why can't you just do 100 cows instead of 400.
The cost of building all those sheds would be eye watering

i think i'd manage around 100 here around the yard. Bring all the silage in from the outside blocks and rear the heifers on the outside block as well. The biggest cost would be road ways and i'd have to relay a whole new water system that would handle 100 cows.

I'd see them passing up and down the road. A friend of mine is winter milking but it's all going to Glanbia. When it comes to work life balance, it will be myself and the 2 parents and I'll get a student during the spring and summer if I can, put in calving cameras into all the sheds and have a straight forward but a good set up. I may as well get a relief milker from the FRS if I want a weekend off rather than giving the money to the tax man

Timmaay

davidk1394 wrote: »

If there's a comfortable living to be made out of a 100 to 120 cows i'd be more than happy. A neighbour of ours has an organic dairy farm and is milking them with a lely robot, I was talking to him Saturday night and he said his making 100K a year !! could that be right ?? I was talking to the uncle about starting up an organic dairy herd but trying to find the stock could be an issue

Ugh jezzz, ok you need to stay away from that chap for the minute ha, it's very easy to go around bragging that they are made 100k/yr, loads more variables there, he could be perfectly well setup, with very small repayments etc, no labour bills but married to the system himself, and you do know that he almost definitely didn't see the colour of that 100k profit, it is probably some pretax figure. Listening to stories like that will only put the blinkers on you and let greed etc take over. 2bh I'll admit a large part of the reason why I came home was because quotas were going, I was all dreaming about 200cows, expand expand expand. Now here I am 4yrs later, only 15 cows more than when I took over, but a hell of alot more comfortable and surefoot of how to make a living at this game.

dar31

davidk1394 wrote: »

Right lads as the title suggests myself and the auld lad are looking at dairying in the next couple of years. We currently have 550 breeding ewes and 50 cattle as well. I can't see a comfortable living being made with drystock the way it is.

We will probably have to go indoors as the farm is too fragmented to go fully out doors. We plan to start off with 80 cows in spring 2018 and expand up to 300 cows with the help of the uncle and his ground as well. All the digging and concrete work will be done by ourselves and the stone will be brought up from our own quarry.

The father is over fertility and breeding as his expert at that side and i'm over nutrition as this is my strong point. We work very well together but we will still draw up a partnership agreement.

Anyway is it madness or is it viable ?

It has taken generations (or a large windfall)
To put in place buildings, machinery, infrastructure and cows for a 300 cow indoor system like your talking about.
Just pulling numbers out of the sky but there'd be no change out of €5000/cow setup???

whelan2

There's a few articles on setting up in dairying and costings in today's farming independent

Keepgrowing

dar31 wrote: »

It has taken generations (or a large windfall)
To put in place buildings, machinery, infrastructure and cows for a 300 cow indoor system like your talking about.
Just pulling numbers out of the sky but there'd be no change out of €5000/cow setup???

All I can tell you is each extra cow here cost €2600 and believe me there's nothing fancy here shed wise but cows are well fed, comfortable and can access grass at all times of the year.

kevthegaff

Keepgrowing wrote:

All I can tell you is each extra cow here cost €2600 and believe me there's nothing fancy here shed wise but cows are well fed, comfortable and can access grass at all times of the year.

Do u find more economy of scale with infrastructure kg?

carrollsno1

I'm not saying that high cost suits this country in the slightest lads and lassies I was more interested to hear why the paper didn't refuse the ink in relation to an Irish farmer in New Zealand?

GrasstoMilk

davidk1394 wrote: »

i think i'd manage around 100 here around the yard. Bring all the silage in from the outside blocks and rear the heifers on the outside block as well. The biggest cost would be road ways and i'd have to relay a whole new water system that would handle 100 cows.

I'd see them passing up and down the road. A friend of mine is winter milking but it's all going to Glanbia. When it comes to work life balance, it will be myself and the 2 parents and I'll get a student during the spring and summer if I can, put in calving cameras into all the sheds and have a straight forward but a good set up. I may as well get a relief milker from the FRS if I want a weekend off rather than giving the money to the tax man

Forget hi cost imo.milk price going forward is going to be too variable.
120 cows on your 100 acres
16 unit parlour that can go to 24 units
Convert your existing sheds to cubicles.
Cows to grass from start of Feb to mid November

Hi input is too hi risk especially if you know nothing about it.
A simple system like that should leave you 800/cow after everything is paid in a decent milk price year.

C0N0R

carrollsno1 wrote: »

I'm not saying that high cost suits this country in the slightest lads and lassies I was more interested to hear why the paper didn't refuse the ink in relation to an Irish farmer in New Zealand?

I just wouldn't believe everything you have read about his situation. Grass greener on the other side and all that.

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Forget hi cost imo.milk price going forward is going to be too variable.
120 cows on your 100 acres
16 unit parlour that can go to 24 units
Convert your existing sheds to cubicles.
Cows to grass from start of Feb to mid November

Hi input is too hi risk especially if you know nothing about it.
A simple system like that should leave you 800/cow after everything is paid in a decent milk price year.

Nothing wrong with hi input ,it will be more profitable than low cost but needs to be grass based and if milking through winter ,all milk supplied needs to be contracted .also the guy running the show needs to be really tuned in .simole yard with good facilities ,parlour with fty ,no need for heap of machinery around yard etc

carrollsno1

C0N0R wrote: »

I just wouldn't believe everything you have read about his situation. Grass greener on the other side and all that.

That is true very true but it is hard to know whether or not he is better off not staying at home with 30 cows or growing numbers like he did in New Zealand you could give yourself as much hardship with 30 cows as you would with 300 if you wanted to

freedominacup

Keepgrowing wrote: »

All I can tell you is each extra cow here cost €2600 and believe me there's nothing fancy here shed wise but cows are well fed, comfortable and can access grass at all times of the year.

Where does the land charge fit into that figure?

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Nothing wrong with hi input ,it will be more profitable than low cost but needs to be grass based and if milking through winter ,all milk supplied needs to be contracted .also the guy running the show needs to be really tuned in .simole yard with good facilities ,parlour with fty ,no need for heap of machinery around yard etc

That's exactly what I'm saying. What your saying there isnt what I would view as high cost. All indoor is my view of high cost

Keepgrowing

freedominacup wrote: »

Where does the land charge fit into that figure?

Rental included

Keepgrowing

kevthegaff wrote: »

Do u find more economy of scale with infrastructure kg?

Not sure of question.
Do you mean build cost?